<p>Kjofkw,
You're welcome. I kind of wondered if I wasn't too honest with a few posters who contacted me by e-mail, because their kids decided not to go there. Anyway I think I'm pretty realistic about the pros and cons and hope I don't get in the way of honest discussion about the school. Even my son thinks the administration is a little too focused on rankings, but he has high praise for the academics and the profs. He also thinks the highly rated food is bad for you-too full of fat and sugar-all those things that make it taste so good. Forever a critic-just like his parents.</p>
<p>Lizschup--I also found your postings about WashU to very informative. I had heard of the school, but that was it. And we somehow did not get on their mailing list--I had to request information from them, imagine that!-- One of the things that is so compelling about CC is getting the inside scoop on these places. </p>
<p>Boy, talk about negative publicity--UChicago certainly gets it. Do you know of any other schools where "fun comes to die?" I think that it works for the school in a perverse way, though. The more my S heard stuff like that about the school, the more he wanted to go there.</p>
<p>I think the value of a forum like this is not that any one person has the truth but that collectively we can all be smarter than any of us could be alone. The key is not to focus on any one opinion but to get a general sense of " what is being said" on a topic and "triangulate" the results to get a fix on what is more likely than not to be true.</p>
<p>mstee,
That's funny because my son was seriously going to look at UChicago. We actually had a trip planned for there and Northwestern, until his choir director told him he couldn't sing in the spring concert if he missed practice. We never found another chance to visit and he needed to pare down his list so it came off. It is one of the schools I would have definitely included. He went to a talk given by a UChicago prof who was visiting last year and loved it. I don't know. If I had found CC before this whole process we would have really had a difficult time paring his list down. I still have PR's best 350 colleges with all 60 of his dog eared post it tabs. Now if he can just decide on a major.</p>
<p>Mstee:</p>
<p>To a certain extent, Chicago cultivates that image. It wants to attract a certain kind of students: serious about studying and about the life of the mind, as the website claims. And there are students who are attracted to Chicago, precisely for that aspect. I talked to a Chicago prof who bragged that Chicago is where academics like to send their kids. I'm not surprised. I've talked to some parents of recent graduates and apparently their kids loved it there.
My S is considering Chicago. He would be not be attracted to a school that had a reputation as a party school.</p>
<p>I would say that the Fiske Guide, the US News statistics (including the selectivity rankings but NOT the "overall" rankings), College Confidential and the College Admissions Mystique book are the best sources of college admissions information I have found, along with individual college websites.</p>
<p>College Confidential is however, the ONLY resource you need for music theatre schools <grin>. No need to look anywhere else.</grin></p>
<p>Reidm--I got information from so many sources--the college counselor at school, this site, Fiske/PR/Insider's Guides, specialized books like Hidden Ivies, etc. It all really helped round out my son's list of schools so much, so that at the end, he had really wonderful choices that all fit him extremely well. </p>
<p>The most helpful things on this site, I feel, are specific questions asking for detailed, personal information. For me, for example, way back at the beginning I asked several questions about the differences between small liberal arts schools such as Amherst, Williams, etc., and the fine points of distinction that were offered were invaluable. </p>
<p>I think the philosophical discussions that abound here are great for parenting ideas, for sharing ideas with a broader community than our own local ones, etc. That is just part of the internet community idea. While they may not help our kids identify the right colleges, they are instructive and fun.</p>
<p>Everyone just needs to be careful to "know" the people from whom they are thinking of taking advice, since from time to time there have been people here posting under false pretenses.</p>
<p>I think that maybe a gentle piece of advice to remember that this is pretty much a board of anonymous posters and though some posters may be very knowledgeable about certain aspects of college admissions, everyone should check with the individual college before acting on anything that is posted here. Things change very quickly at colleges and an experience from prior years may well be different today. And we all make mistakes. A mistake or misstatment could lead someone down the wrong path, if he does not verify the information at the source. </p>
<p>I am not as worried about people posting here under false pretenses as long as their posts are relevent and useful. If they want to create a fantasy identity for themselves, it is fine with me. Incorrect information can be more of a problem, and of course the trolls and flames are inappropriate. The moderators seem to be vigilant about the latter, and the regular poster tend to jump on the former. But any experiences related here should be taken with a grain of salt. This is an internet board, for goodness sakes, with all of its attendent problems, as well moderated as it might be. I tend to avoid these, but there are so many issues that are on this board that I feel I can address and be helpful, and the tone of the people here is generally very kind and positive, so now I am addicted. And the MT board is truly one of its kind. That is what originally got me here. I stayed up nearly all night reading all the back entries, I remember! Whew. But what is wonderful about this board is that there all kinds of experiences and nuggets of info that you really cannot find anywhere. The posters do tend to be very knowledgeable and most of the discussions impart alot of food for thought whether you agree with the side taken or not. I have learned a lot from this board.</p>
<p>marite,
I had an interesting conversation with Harvard professor (been at H. a few years) who had been a Chicago professor for many years. After a recent lecture I asked him to compare the students. His response? Chicago students much more serious about academics, never complain about too much work, not high enough grade, etc. H. students seem to him more interested in their e.c.s than their academics. One prof's observation.</p>
<p>Having attended Williams, and then having taught at (and attended graduate school at) UChicago (though it was some years ago), I have absolutely no doubt that the students at Chicago were much more serious about academics than the ones at Williams. They weren't any brighter, they didn't write any better, their class comments weren't any more astute, but they were much more emotionally tied down to their books. (I'm not sure they actually worked any harder either.)</p>
<p>It will work for some students, and not for others. To my way of thinking, it is terrific that UChicago doesn't try to change either its image or the reality, and is able to offer an education likely to attract those they want, and deter those they don't. I don't believe they get any negative publicity at all, based on whom they want to attract. (They don't sell the "We're #316" sweatshirts in the University shop to degrade themselves.) I always advise applicants to visit first, just to be sure.</p>
<p>Casualresponder:</p>
<p>Your comments are very apt. My sense is that much of the negativity about Harvard is that its own students complain a lot, though why is a mystery to me. Someone commented that the scheduling of exams allows Harvard students to get very involved in their ECs--to the detriment of their class work-- and then cram during reading period. That is true of some students I have met. I had to laugh though, when a parent posted that, on studentreview.com, MIT students rated the city/neighborhood A- but that Harvard's city/neighborhood, which is arguably more attractive, rated a measly B.</p>
<p>Marite: i think the HArvaRD Students are so used to not having to demonstrate their knowledge to anybody that they sometimes resent having to complete what they consider tedious assignments. I know my S resented all the labs he had to complete in the physics class he was in. He had made the final round of the US Physics team in his Sr year of HS and found this class to be a bore ( or a "snore" as he called it!) But, chartering a new club "The Anime Society" at Harvard was something he completely threw himself into! and became an officer for four years. What did they do? Collected and watched "Japanese" Anime cartoons. Go figure. He ended learning to read and write, speak and understand Japanese and has almost five years of Japanese tea ceremony training....so what else is new with these brainy kids.</p>
<p>CC has been extremely helpful to me the last few months. I only wish I had known about this forum last year as I was wanting information about schools and the admissions process but no one in our circle seemed to be talking about colleges. I have found such valuable information here and in the archives. A couple of days ago my son applied to a school because of information we learned here on CC. That particular school had never crossed our minds, and I ran it by my son-in-law who recruits engineering schools. He gave us thumbs up.</p>
<p>Sgiovinc:</p>
<p>It's hard to believe that Harvard students are not used to having to demonstrate their knowledge; after all, they have to take SATs, APs, and win as many competitions as they can. Nor do I believe that Harvard is alone in handing out tedious assignments and labs. For example, the Harvard prof who previously taught at Chicago, presumably taught more or less the same way in both places. I do not believe that Chicago students are in any way inferior to Harvard students, or have a higher tolerance for tedium. But they do not seem to have a reputation for complaining. </p>
<p>My S, by the way, adores his physics class; high school assignments are something else, though.</p>
<p>No, I don't mean "That" kind of demonstrating. These kids all do very well on standardized tests. I think the Harvard kids complain because they view themselves as a member of an elite group...who are not supposed to be challenged with things they consider "beneath" them...my S eventually gave up the regular physics classes at H and began taking graduate classes more to his liking and his level of experience. Believe me, I am not saying that the H kids should consider themselves the "elite" and certainly should not be vocalizing it! My S learned early on not to tell anyone on any new jobs where he went as an undergrad. He oftentimes said it was a "curse." The responses he got from his co-workers bordered on "rude" and even malicious. I shared with him to keep some of his personal information where it should be...private. Only his employer need know his background. There was much resentment and personal jealousy on several of his jobs. Sorry to say. Welcome to America!</p>
<br>
<blockquote> <p>I think the Harvard kids complain because they view themselves as a member of an elite group...who are not supposed to be challenged with things they consider "beneath" them...>></p> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Ouch. If Harvard kids think of themselves that way, no wonder they need to hide where they went to college! </p>
<p>Harvard students are extremely lucky to have a shopping period in which they can find out whether a course is to their liking or not. My older S had to register for courses months in advance. Once or twice, by the time he was allowed by the automated system to log in and register for courses, he found out that the courses he wanted to take had already filled up. When he figured out that a particular course would not be suitable, he was shut out of another course that would have been more appropriate.</p>
<p>Jamimom, good post, but what is the "MT board"? The identity issue bothers me because for example if someone is posting as a parent when he/she is actually a kid or vice versa, certain assumptions may be made about their knowledge base which aren't warranted, but the distinction you draw is well-taken, one is more likely to mislead than the other.</p>
<p>It is my impression that "shopping periods" essentially exist at every top college. You can sit in on any classes you like for the first two or three weeks, and drop or add as you like, whether there is advance registration or not. The disadvantage of the "shopping period" (as we saw it at Yale) is that you could actually sit in on the first two or three weeks of classes and still get closed out (without any advanced warning, which would have been available if there was pre-registration.) At Smith this year, they did both a pre-registration for first-years (to see if they might need to add extra sections in their most popular first-year offerings - first-year Italian, Re-enacting History, Logic immediately come to mind - and then they do it again with their advisors when they are on campus for a week (just to make sure you know what you are doing and to consider options if you get closed out), and then 2-3 weeks later with drop/adds.</p>
<p>Patient, I came across CC when I was gathering information on Musical Theatre, the field that my senior was intent upon studying. I did not even know that this was a subject of study, and there really is very little info on it. I even felt foolish asking about it though CMU, a college that was my neighbor for years did have such a program, and it was considered a formidable challenge as it is a double major-voice and theatre. My son had extensive music training and added the drama in middle school. He was in a few musicals, and hooked. This site has probably more MT info than any other single resource. I read every single post, staying up nearly all night. Then spent the next few weeks lurking and reading other forums on CC. It did take a while before I logged on and started posting, and I have yet to start a thread, but I have really become addicted to the site. I spend much of my day on the computer, and I can just click on and off during down times which adds a little spice to my day. I have become quite attached to the regulars and love reading all of these informational nuggets. I have learned so much from this site. I started posting to repay everyone for all the info I picked up. Since college admissions was a field that was my bread and butter for years, I was pretty familiar with the process though woefully inadequate in knowledge of some important areas.</p>
<p>Mini:</p>
<p>There are disadvantages to any system. For students, the Harvard-style shopping period works to their advantage as few are shut out of open enrolment classes (classes that do not advertise caps). The biggest problem is matching TF numbers to enrolments. If enrolments are low, everyone benefits, as TFs are guaranteed employment. If enrolments are higher than expected, the prof has to scramble to hire more TFs or hold a lottery or devise some arbitrary means of reducing the size of the class. Some pre-registration would help, but was shot down by students. I've never heard of students getting closed out at Harvard after 2-3 weeks. Its'more likely to happen after the first week, if the prof is afraid that there won't be enough TFs to handle the number of students.</p>
<p>Yes, there is a shopping period in most colleges. But my S found out when he tried to register--months in advance--for a course for the following term, that the course was already filled up even though he logged into the system the very minute he was allowed to; it was unlucky that according to the system that was devised to prevent logjam, he belonged to a group that was allowed to log in late in the day. In another case, he could drop a course during the shopping period, but adding another one in its place proved impossible. The reason for this is that the profs tried to keep the size of class down (no TFs) and thus refused to let in more students. So in his case, neither the pre-registration nor the shopping period worked in his favor. It's made me look at the TF issue with different eyes. And now, my younger S is being greatly helped by the TFs in the classes he is auditing.</p>