@latichever, it really depends on the program and goals. For instance, some honors programs are robust and offer students special research and mentorship opportunities that would be helpful when applying to PhD programs and med schools. However, honor program or no, if you go to a non-target school, it still will be that for top banks and consulting firms.
For our family, the Ivies were many thousands less than either Cal State or UC schools due to the fact that the Ivieis meet 100% demonstrated need and the Cal States and UCs gapped my son. Further, for smart kids with LDs who aren’t necessarily going to get top grades, honors colleges or scholarships dependent upon a high GPA are risky. A sky high GPA isn’t a priority for us or our kids. Graduating from college (period) and graduating debt free were goals, if possible. So for our family, attending private universities was more cost effective by far.
Having said that, Ronald Nelson seems like a wonderfully intelligent, mature young man, and I have no doubt he will have a fantastic u/g career at Bama. Kuddos to his family and him for making such a prudent decision.
South Florida, the Ivies (that I know about anyway) don’t give merit aid, only need-based, so they cannot make him an “offer he can’t refuse.” 
@compmom - yes, I know, sadly. I just fantasize that a top admissions officer would read this story and think “wow, how can we let this kid slip through our fingers.”
Yes, I have a rich fantasy life. 
If one is in an income bracket just above the cut off for financial aid, or an adjustment like Harvard, then 60K can still be a financial stretch for a family, especially if there are sibs in college and not much FA consideration for that. In this case, a merit scholarship at an honors college is a considerable opportunity. Even without any merit aid, an in state university can be more affordable to many families. Colleges consider need according to their own criteria, but even a generous salary can be strained with an extra 60K a year in some situations.
I have known families make this choice either way, and sometimes it isn’t in proportion to salary. I knew one family with several siblings choose the scholarship. Another felt the state college was a real value. One family turned down a full tuition scholarship for a top 5 college at a higher cost, but many family members were alums of that college and attending it had a large value to them in addition to academics. Some families chose a presigious college over a state college regardless of financial aid or merit.
Can an honors college meet the need of a top student? I believe so, but what this need is can depend on future career goals and values of the student and family. It is possible for students to do quite well in a state college, but it is better if they, and the family are content with this choice.
Like most things, the idea of an honors college within a larger school works well for some kids and not so well for others. And for some people it is the cheapest option and others may get huge scholarships or even free rides at private schools. There is no one best answer for everyone.
Great article. Except that the book/website that Bruni refers to doesn’t mention UCSB’s College of Creative Studies, which flies way under the radar even here in California. It’s unlike other honors colleges/programs in that there are a very limited number of majors, and the incoming student has to be committed to one of those majors when applying. But for California kids who are interested in those specific areas (Art, Biology, Chemistry/Biochem, CS, Literature, Math, Music Composition, Physics), it’s an outstanding option.
I remember learning from CC about UT’s Plan II college during D1’s college search and being wowed.
Two comments. First, part of Bruni’s point, I think, is that the public honors college avoids the “enclave of extreme privilege.” He has a decent point. Yes, the Ivy League experience provides you with great connections for the future, but there’s also a personal and societal benefit to having some of our best and brightest students living in and contributing to a public university environment. Your classmates will not all be elites.
Second, while the article focuses on someone who got into a bunch of Ivy Leagues and turned them down, there is a far larger contingent of students who are just as qualified but didn’t get into HYPS, which have the most generous aid for middle class families. Our HS has several in that camp every year: very bright students with great stats and credentials (ex: 2400 SAT, 4.0 UW GPA, top 5%, NMF, 800’s on multiple SAT 2s, strong EC’s) who get deferred then rejected from HYPS. A lot of them get into other great private schools but with EFC’s of 30K per year. They probably would’ve gotten more generous FA from HYPS. Faced with that scenario, several opt for our local honors college where they get not only in state tuition but lots of merit aid (Barrett). This happens every year at our HS.
Public universities with good honors programs are the only ones we are applying to this go-round!
Down with student debt and cumbersome application supplements and interviews only to be met with 90% chance of rejection at “elite” colleges - even for SAT 2300+ and GPA > 4.0.
Roll tide!
70% of Harvard students receive financial aid, 10% pay nothing, and there are no loans involved in financial aid.
https://college.harvard.edu/financial-aid
The average total of aid from Harvard, feds and outside scholarships is $48,800. https://college.harvard.edu/admissions/admissions-statistics
More than 42% are African-American, Asian American, Hispanic or Latino, or Native American or Pacific Islander.
Colleges like Harvard have made huge strides toward socioeconomic diversity and are hardly “enclaves of extreme privilege.” Nor are the campuses full of some sort of super race or exclusively kids who stressed about admission for years.
I am a fan of state universities and take classes at UMass myself. But we don’t need to criticize the amazing experiences at top private colleges in order to feel good about the equally excellent honors programs at some state u’s. Really, there is a lot of protesting too much here.
These choices need to be made on an individual basis, and according to finances. Personally I don;t understand why this article or this kid’s choice is even interesting: it is obvious to me that state u’s honors programs are very good, and that a free ride is much better than $65K. But that does not take away from schools like Harvard, either.
The interesting thing is that state flagships, which typically are good value deals for the upper-middle-class and middle class but with many offering poor fin aid, are becoming bastions of the upper-middle-class and middle class. Some study noted that either the average or median household income is now higher at UMinny than at Macalester next door.
However, state flagships may have more diversity in terms of the academic ability of the student body compared to a place like Harvard.
That type of diversity may be desirable to some folks. Most people voting or in the workforce would not be in the top 99th percentile (or even 95th percentile) in academics (or by any metric).
Purple Titan, your first paragraph above is interesting, and no doubt true. Not sure about the minority population at some state U’s: ironically it is possible that Ivies are now more diverse than some of the state U’s.
As for academic diversity, I do think that “holistic admissions” assembles a class, rather than focus on the individual, and there is diversity of talent too. Meaning, yes, most on the Harvard campus are awfully good at something, but it may be something entirely different than any of their friends. I don’t think it is a matter of gathering the top 1% in academics in some generic way. Admissions mentions Howard Gardner’s multiple intelligences on their site.
State u’s, by virtue of size, tend to go more with stats than selective privates- another irony. Honors kids no doubt all have great SAT’s and GPA’s.
I would guess the Ivies and some other top private schools are definintely more diverse than a number of UC schools such as UCI and UCSD…but I suppose it depends on how you define diverse.
Re: #32
Actually, the UCs have relatively high SES diversity based on percentage of students with Pell grants.
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity-among-top-ranked-schools
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity
http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/college-rankings-blog/2009/09/10/new-rankings-college-economic-diversity
UCI and UCSD have 45% and 44% of students on Pell grants respectively. Columbia at 30% and Harvard at 19% are the closest Ivy League schools in that respect. Princeton and Yale are at 12% and 13% respectively.
But that is likely because the criteria for admission to Ivy League schools is often quite difficult to achieve for students from lower and lower-middle income families, and many such students may not be attending high schools where the counselors and teachers emphasize applications to highly selective colleges (as opposed to the community college or state university). Of course, few such students show up on these forums as well.
However, UC (and CSU) policies include many which are intended to help first generation and low SES students attend college. Policies in other states may result in significantly different SES diversity results in their state universities.
@compmom, Ivies more diverse in terms of race than many state U’s? Very likely.
However, even if a place like Harvard doesn’t just assemble academic superstars, they do assemble superstars in various fields. Which, again, doesn’t resemble most workplaces or any voter base (except on a facile level, such as if you look at only race). Now maybe someone wants that (and in fact, many kids do), but let’s not pretend that the Harvard student body isn’t an outlier in many ways.
It would be interesting to find out the SES composition of honors colleges compared to elite privates (which would have the super-rich, upper-middle-class, middle class, and poor; and the super-rich would still be overrepresented compared to the regular population).
My guess is that honors colleges would be dominated by upper-middle-class and middle-class strivers with almost no representation by the super-rich (Bruni alludes to this), but I may be wrong.
PT - I would expect you to be right about the SES of the honors colleges, but not about the elite privates. I would expect the upper-middle class strivers to be under-represented at elite privates. They take the biggest hit to their lifestyle, retirement plans, etc. if they choose to send there kids to elite schools. Lower middle class and poor receive free ride, super rich will never miss it. It is the strivers who have to sacrifice to make it work.
I don’t have any data to support, just based on my own view of the situation I suppose.
@LOUKYDAD, you may be right, but I find a (somewhat surprisingly) large number of the upper-middle class who are willing to sacrifice to send their kid(s) to a private at full-pay. And note that among the pool of high-achieving kids who are qualified for both elite privates and honors colleges, the upper-middle class overrepresents (the super-rich overrepresent even more, but the upper-middle class is many times more numerous), so I think you’ll find significant numbers at both.
I think the argument that Ivies and such don’t reflect the “real world” is valid: the reality is a bit skewed, yes. It leads to high expectations of life even for the most level-headed. To me, that is one of the strongest arguments for publics, honestly. But then again, it depends on the individual. And sometimes high expectations can even come true, at least in part.
I don’t know about the super-rich. I read a great book on social status (one gem was that a threadbare rug is a sign of wealth) that said the super rich don’t really care where they (or their kids) go. But of course the wealthy aren’t one monolithic group.
It would seem that as the middle to upper middle class gets increasingly squeezed by high tuition with no aid, more and more talented students end up at the public honors colleges. Although the situation (not rich enough to pay, not poor enough for aid) may be frustrating, it certainly brings benefit to the publics - and top students there can be more and more assured of working alongside academic peers.
@compmom, your point about the super-rich would actually support my assertion. So those who can’t get in to an elite private would be willing to be full-pay at a 2nd-tier or 3rd-tier private (or OOS public). They would likely not end up at a public honors college.