<p>I have decided to start an official thread for the discussion of honors colleges (at public universities). Also, there is an ongoing debate over whether or not public universities honors colleges are a cheaper equivalent to Ivy League* schools. Id like to know how you all feel about this. Parents, if your child had to choose between an honors college at State U or an Ivy League school, what advice would you give them? Students who have found themselves in a similar situation, what did you decided and why?</p>
<p>As a high school junior going through the college search and selection process, this topic is very relevant. I will qualify for some very good scholarships at some state universities, yet my dream school is a $40,000+ / year private university. My family financial situation is decent, however I have plans for medical school after undergrad. Would an Ivy League education be worth the money? Or would the full ride to State Us honors college be the more viable option?</p>
<p>Any insight, or anecdotal/statistical evidence will be greatly appreciated (Im sure by more people than just myself)... also, if you have any opinions on the Honors College = Ivy League debate, feel free to proffer.</p>
<p>*Please note that in my post Ivy League should be taken as synonymous with Top 20ish, or other highly selective colleges.</p>
<p>Well, I'm a fighter for the University of Georgia, so hear me out!</p>
<p>UGA has what is what is considered to be one of the best Honors Colleges in the nation. UGA has an entering class of about 4800 freshman, and the Honors College accepts about 450-480 of those freshman to join the Honors College. The average SAT score is 1440 (equivalent or higher than the Top 20 / Ivy League) and the average GPA is above a 4.1. </p>
<p>The Honors College at UGA is continually referred to as an "Ivy League Education at a Fraction of the Price." Well, I can honestly not confirm or deny this since I've never recieved an education at an Ivy League school, but I do know that several students, in fact, very many students turned down top 20 / Ivy League schools. I know people that have turned down Harvard, Stanford, Yale, Univeristy of Chicago, Tufts, Georgtown, and Dartmouth. In fact, a graduating senior at my best friend's school got into Harvard Early Action this year, but he is chosing to attend the Honors College because a) it's free for him :) and b) he believes that he will recieve just a good as education.</p>
<p>So basically, the Honors College (at least at UGA) is extremely competitive to both get into and stay in. You need to have stats that will get you into an Ivy in order to get into the Honors College in MOST cases, and the people you will meet the Honors College will have turned down very fine schools. I will be attending the Honors College at UGA this fall, I am turning down several very very fine schools, but I won't list them because I'll sound like an ass.</p>
<p>PSU also has an excellent and very selective honors college. Only 300 of the entering freshman class are in the honors program. There is a seperate application process with essays, and recommendations. Avg SAT is in the mid 1400s. We have some friends who are in the program and they rave about it. Small classes, travel grants, priority regsitration, strong advising, plus the graduates are VERY successful (get into great grad schools, earn high avg salaries). Is it an Ivy League education? I don't think so. The honors classes (2 or 3 per semester) may be equivalent to classes at top schools; other "regular" classes are likely to be not as tough. The prestige factor is lower (not that that's all that important). Our son is going there this fall - he didn't get into an Ivy league (only applied to one and didn't get in). If he did, we might have a tough decision to make. As it is, he got into some very good schools (WF, Lehigh) - and the Schreyer Honors College came out as a clear winner It helped that he got three scholarships so tuitoin is almost free - and since we're paying so little, we'll help him out with grad school. Bottom line, I think some honors programs are worth serious consideration. However, I think that if money is no object and the fit is good - an Ivy is probably the way to go. Not many people are in that category though! Hope this helps...</p>
<p>I honestly think that if you're at a top public school like UCLA, UCB, Michigan all the way up to Wisconsin Madison with honors, than it is a better choice than having to pay 40K a year to go to an Ivy.</p>
<p>however if you'd be attending a state school that is honestly a state school not known for anything but being in the middle of nowhere, then you should consider your options. </p>
<p>If you can get into an ivy league, you can get into other private universities that give merit aid, so you can find a balance between the ivy and the state school and still be able to attend a great school.</p>
<p>Good Merit Aid: BU, GWU, Lehigh, Washington and Lee, Univ of Miami, Dickinson, Gettysburg, Lafayette, maybe UWash.<br>
Not so Good (hard to get merit money): Wake Forest, Richmond, Boston College, Tufts, Emory, Duke, Bucknell.
Most schools in the top 25 are not generous with money. For the rest, the rule is usually that you need to have a signficantly stronger profile than the rest of the student population to get money. My son got good money at Lehigh, Dickinson, and Gettysburg. Still thought that the honors college at his state U was the better choice (they have top 20 business school and an excellent honors program). So, I think it depends on what you want - but certainly there are private schools that give money out there - just not the "cream of the crop" schools.</p>
<p>Florida State University has an excellent Honors program. There are many opportunities for research and development for graduate work or later professional studies. I have one daughter in the program now. She received a nice financial package and has already conducted research in an individually funded program designed for undergrads. The sky is the limit...</p>
<p>About the best programs at FSU (from the FSU website):</p>
<p>With an impressive breadth of programs, Florida State University has leading graduate, professional, and undergraduate programs in a variety of fields. Many units have programs that consistently rank among the nations top twenty-five public universities, including programs in Physics, Chemistry, Oceanography, Statistics, Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Meteorology, Political Science, Psychology, Sociology, Criminology, Information, Creative Writing, Public Policy, Business and Law.</p>
<p>Florida State Universitys arts programsDance, Film, Music and Theatrerank as among the finest in the world.</p>
<p>Ivy league schools bring an atmosphere of achievement and excellence not found as prominently in a state school. To some degree, you are missing learning from some of the brighest minds in the country when you attend a state school, even if you are in the honors program.</p>
<p>"Ivy Leage schools bring an atmosphere of achievement and excellence not found as prominently in a state school."</p>
<p>What?!?! One would be a fool to claim that Cornell has a more prominent "atmosphere of achievement and excellence" than UC Berkeley. And as far as "missing learning from some of the brightest minds in the country," what about the faculty at Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, UVA, Chapel Hill, and Wisconsin?</p>
<p>I was accepted to UNC Chapel Hill honors and 6k per year scholarship but turned it down for Duke. </p>
<p>Why?</p>
<p>Because frankly the honors program is nothing more than a title. Only real benefit it offers is priority over others when selecting classes and honor distinction at end of study (which non honors program students can also get)</p>
<p>if finances are not a major concern, the private elites (by that I mean 1-15 US news ranked) are a better option.</p>
<p>I think this is too varied to generalize. There are some state colleges where the honors college is merely a title and some slight preferential treatment, and then there are other state honors colleges that kind of do qualify as a separate school. I like Barretts Honors College at ASU (Arizona) because it's separate housing, better advising, preferential treatment in class selection, and you have to take separate and smaller classes. The dean there has put in significant effort and money into making BHC as good as it can be. I don't think I know a single person who is going to BHC and is paying more than a thousand or two thousand a year.</p>
<p>I think that when it comes to applying to colleges, I'll try the Ivies and top 15 schools and my state honors college. To me, the school is THAT good and I'm not desperate to leave my state. I would rather go to a super great school that will help me out with networking/finding research jobs or I would rather go to an honors college that will pay me to go there while I live in a city where I am comfortable and happy. This is a personal choice of mine and the fact that I love my local honors college has a lot to do with it.</p>
Ivy league schools bring an atmosphere of achievement and excellence
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</p>
<p>...and arrogance and elitism and cut-throat competitiveness. ;)</p>
<p>I personally feel that the experience one gets a large, public institution with a social life and a great sports scene is indespensible. I couldn't imagine college life without painting myself blue and orange for football games in the stadium (or watching them on ESPN!) or dressing up in a sundress for a themed Greek party. I would never want to attend a small college that lacked those aspects. (Of course, that's just my personal preference.) So for me, large institutions were really the only option, and when I was accepted into the presitgious Echols Scholar program at the University of Virginia, it was a no-brainer. The Echols program is sort of the equivalent of an honors college, although since UVA itself is already a top 25 institution, it has no official "honors program". Approximately 10% of each incoming class is selected for Echols, or about 300 students out of 3,000. These students recieve priority registration, an open curriculum without any core requirments, and the ability to design their own majors. I honestly believe that the education at UVA--Echols or not--is as good as the education at any Ivy. UVA has the highest minority graduation rate of any school in the nation for the 12th year in a row, and has the highest graduation/retention rate for all students out of any public university. I have never seen a school with happier students who were more proud of their institution. I feel absolutely priveledged to call myself a part of the plan that Thomas Jefferson himself designed to educate America's youth, and I believe that if he were around today, he would be proud of THE University. :)</p>
<p>In other words, education is what you make it. You can get a great education at a "bad" school and a horrible education at an Ivy. It's all up to you--so don't let prestige or some intangible idea of a "good" education get in the way of your choice.</p>
<p>As Mark Twain once said, "I have never let my schooling get in the way of my education."</p>
<p>Well said, semiserious. For these purposes, I would love being a California, Virginia, Michigan, Wisconsin or North Carolina resident, where the main public colleges are on par with any privates.</p>
<p>Thanks, Dwincho. I am actually a California resident who chose to attend UVA over Berkeley/UCLA. :) Although both Berkeley and UCLA are excellent institutions, I truly found a home at UVA. It just FIT. As soon as I set foot on the campus, I knew that was where I was headed. I hope everyone can have that same emotion with a school, and go with it, it even if it isn't the most "prestigious" institution to which they were admitted.</p>
<p>I'm currently a student in the honors college at the University of Michigan, and I turned down the University of Chicago and multiple Ivy league schools to do honors at Michigan...for the same price. I think a lot of people choose Ivies because they like the "wow" factor that comes with the name. To be honest, Michigan's name draws very little "wow factor" from friends and family, but gets a very nice one from employers and graduate schools. The caliber of honors student is pretty good (average SAT in the 1500's, average ACT of 33), and like previous posters I know students who have turned down every Ivy league school (and stanford, MIT, etc.) to do honors at Michigan. I personally chose it over those schools because the social/athletic atmosphere is unmatched at the Ivies, and Michigan has the number 7 math program in the country, so it's also giving me a better education than most of those schools would. I think it's mostly about atmosphere, but I'm all for having fun, so I chose Michigan.</p>
<p>All students at schools like HYPSM, Dartmouth, Duke, Brown, Penn (basically top schools) are high caliber, whereas at state schools with honors colleges, only the students in these honors colleges are of higher caliber. This means that even though you are in the "honors college" you are still in classes with the general student body. In contrast, at top private schools every student in the general student body is top notch. </p>
<p>Honors colleges are great, but going to a top private school is a better opportunity for a top notch student trying to get a top education (of course, money and social life are issues that come into consideration, I know of people who turned down Lehigh, Cornell, URoch for PSU Schreyers honors college for those reasons)</p>
<p>I'm a member of the Rutgers College Honors Program.. I turned down JHU, Northwestern, UVa, and McGill to come to Rutgers. The Honors program is highly selective, with an avg SAT above 1400 and the avg class rank of 7%... plenty of people in it turned down more selective schools but chose Rutgers for the price.</p>
<p>Though I had always dreamed of attending a top college, I started to consider going to Rutgers after realizing how much debt I'd go into after medical school. I realized I had just as good of a chance getting into a top medical school if I graduated from Rutgers honors with a top GPA, MCAT, and involvement at college. </p>
<p>The honors program at Rutgers offers seperate honors sections of courses so that you get one on one interaction with top faculty early on and also has honors seminars-- 15 person classes with a faculty member on some interdisciplinary topic. They also offer seperate honors housing and honors mentors.</p>
<p>Basically, I'm really happy with my decision... I've met lots of really awesome people here and really enjoy the fact that I'm at a big state school. It's great to be on such a large campus because there's always so much going on every day-- and so much activities to get involved in (I think that there has to be more than any Ivy...)</p>
<p>Rutgers doesn't have the rep that UVa, Michigan, or Berkeley may claim, but it definitely should! Established in 1776, Rutgers is the 10th oldest college in the US! (Watching the alumni parade yesterday would convince anyone that rutgers is awesome :) )</p>