@latichever: Yep, people want to justify to themselves.
However, as @BobWallace has noted, a lot of the perceived difference is due to marketing. In the estimation of @starbright (who is and has been faculty at a Canadian public as well American publics and Ivies), while there are differences between publics and privates, they tend to be overstated by parents and kids not familiar with higher ed.
My take is that if you compare top public research U’s with elite private research U’s, the in-class education can be very similar (for a kid who wants to make it so). Certainly, the quality of the faculty will be almost the same. Privates may have more money to spend and there will likely be differences outside the classroom. However, in terms of tangible advantages being the same/better/worse, that really depends on the kid, goals, and school & program.
"I’ve been thinking a lot about this kid…and i don’t think that others should draw conclusions based on what he did. Honestly, he could have won full-rides to Duke, Vanderbilt, USC, Chapel Hill, etc with his stats. "
-Honestly, he truly DO NOT CARE if indeed he is going to Med. School. Med. Schools do not care about the name of the UG, They care about your stats, med. ECs and somewhat social personality.
" A student whose parents can easily afford and are willing to pay the Ivy League school prices" - and Medical School ?
Then, we are talking some $600k or so. Are we talking about Donald Trump sending the kid to college/Med. school? I thought that we are talking about some average family with normal income like $150k - $200k and possibly other siblings. Or maybe this family got some donations from Donald? He said that he gives a lot of money to a lot of people.
@MiamiDAP You make the wrong assumption that they would pay full price–they would not.At HYPSM even at 150K you would be still receiving aid, especially if you lived in certain areas of the country. And as thoroughly covered in previous posts, for the vast majority of households in the US, going to an Ivy (assuming you can obtain admission) would be cheaper than going to your state university.
Median family income in the US is about 60K, however at HYPSM, at about 85K and below, you would pay nothing out of pocket–everything from RT air tickets, to book, a laptop, and in some situation, study abroad for a semester.
The NY Times column links to my website, and I was one of the people interviewed for the piece. Although the website does emphasize the quality and benefits of public honors colleges and programs, the site is independent. Personally, I believe that a young person who has visited and really felt comfortable at HYPSM, Columbia,etc., and whose family can finance that option with or without need-based aid, should by all means enroll at one of those wonderful universities.
But most applicants, even those as bright as those actually accepted to these elite schools, are denied entrance, often because the schools have so many priorities in addition to academic ability. And our research shows that, given a cohort of students in the top 8-9% of SAT and ACT scores (~1300/29), there are not enough slots at elite private universities and liberal arts colleges, or at UCB, Virginia etc., to accommodate these students.
So what happens to the rest? Well, public AND private honors colleges/programs are a very strong alternative. And the public honors programs, in general, will cost less out of pocket for many two-earner families. Here is a somewhat nerdy post we did on the subject of elite slots across the country. http://publicuniversityhonors.com/2015/06/16/4770/
The story of the one kid who turned down the Ivies for public honors is catchy but sort of distracting from what I think is supposed to be the main point of the article: that public honors colleges can be a “prudent” path. As @boolaHI pointed out in post 64 above, of the elite schools that give only need based FA, HYPS are the most generous to middle income families. But that’s a handful of schools. Most other top privates can be very challenging for middle class families to afford, especially those in the 90-150K range (I’m not saying this is the exact range but rather guessing). I’m specifically thinking of top students at our public HS who were rejected by HYPS but got into other top schools like Rice, Tufts, Carnegie Mellon, for example. But the EFC is just too high especially with siblings in the pipeline and grad school on the horizon. Those students are prime candidates for the public honors programs.
The big point here that is getting dismissed and forgotten is that this student is a pre-med. As a pre-med he does not care where he attend for one reason - Med. School do not care. While name of college may be important for some career path, it is irrelevant for the future MD. Some graduating medical students wonder why they bothered to attend college at Ivy’s and other Elite places that happened to be the most expensive options for them. They wonder why they did not save family resources for Medical School. However, it does not dismiss the fact that the name of the college may as well be of great importance for others.
There is NO general answer here. For some public may be prudent and for others Ivy may be much wiser decision. One fact I do not understand at all is that if one is planning to attend at the public, why bother to apply to Ivy’s. So much resources is wasted right there. My kid skipped them all together, no plans to attend, no reason to apply, she stood strong on her ground, had to withstand all the push from GC.
boolahi,
“You make the wrong assumption that they would pay full price–they would not.At HYPSM even at 150K you would be still receiving aid, especially if you lived in certain areas of the country” - you might as well making the wrong assumption that the family is under $150k. And even if they are given some need based FA at $150k, I highly doubt that it would be a full ride at Ivy / Elite. Anyway, if kid decided to go to Alabama, good for him, very mature and wise decision and I support it fully as I supported fully my own kid who made a similar decision, except that she never bothered to apply to any Ivy / Elite, she said that there is no reason for her to do so, she never changed her mind in regard to Med. School either. She had withstand a huge push from her GC also. So, I understand somewhat the part when kid applied and decided not to attend, not everybody can deal with all adults who are involved in a process of college application.
We have done fine MIAMI DAP, no need to be sorry. I think $200k is pretty high income though. Average income in my town is in the 50k range. I think that is true in most places.
For a family with an income over $150k, Ivies are expensive. Ironically, as others have said, the “middle” group of families with high EFC’s who nevertheless have difficulty paying full price, may be "prudent’ to use public honors colleges.
Harvard may have 70% on financial aid (and 20% going for free) but the remaining 30% have the funds to pay full price.(The expanded financial aid initiative there was intended to help the middle class, up to that upper cut off of $150K.)
The only other alternative besides publis honros would be merit at privates that offer it.
compmom,
I am glad that you got it that taking few words out of the content completely destroys the meaning of these words.
That was the whole purpose of my previous post.