Is it just me, or are students at Notre Dame really concerned with money and career advancement after graduation? Is this something common across universities?
I originally applied with a stated interest in engineering, and so received a packet from the College of Engineering talking about what students in the program have accomplished. I was deeply disappointed to see what was essentially a preoccupation with self-promotion for the purpose of monetary gain. I failed to see a spirit of “learning for the sake of learning.” In fact, that packet contributed to me considering physics as a major instead. In looking at the physics website, I feel more at ease. Engineering is definitely tainted now in my mind, since I can’t help but associate it with greed.
Of course, the fact that Notre Dame seems to be best known academically for its business school and takes pride in the starting salaries of its finance majors doesn’t help to alleviate my discomfort.
I will be a freshman next year. Has anyone else picked up on similar vibes, or am I just overreacting?
@QB18ND23 I would advise against pre-judging your college experience based on printed information materials, which have been put together with clear objectives in mind.
“I was deeply disappointed to see what was essentially a preoccupation with self-promotion for the purpose of monetary gain” is an extremely harsh assessment of the Notre Dame College is Engineering information packet, which is very professionally done by the way. Taking (even preliminary) decisions on your major based on incomplete information does not necessarily bode well for approaching your college experience with an open mind, which will be a key prerequisite for your Notre Dame experience over the coming 4 years.
@hpcsa
My assessment may be harsh, but it is accurate of my impression. I do have an open mind. All I’m saying is that the packet made me realize that there is nothing drawing me to engineering besides money. That is why I cannot major in engineering for now. Physics, on the other hand, leaves my conscience clear.
@QB18ND23 My concern, as expressed in the response above, is not about you majoring in Physics or Engineering, in fact this is quite irrelevant at this stage. It concerns the importance to approach Notre Dame, your future fellow students with an open mind and to avoid being perceived as judgmental without basis.
Have you had the chance to visit Notre Dame before or after your Questbridge Match? Indeed, it would be quite important for you to build an educated assessment based on personal experiences and interactions with students and the university, before showing up for classes in August, I believe. Notre Dame is an excellent and highly regarded university, yet it is not necessarily the best possible fit for every student (which is true for all highly selective universities and colleges).
With the tremendous cost of college these days, the return on the monetary investment in it becomes important. It’s now required, is it not, to make public the jobs and pay certain programs and majors lead to.
@cptofthehouse
True, it is important. However, the center stage should always belong to a discussion of research and academic accomplishment, especially when it comes to STEM fields. Financial success is a bonus that can be mentioned in the fine print.
@QB18ND23 - I completely agree with @cptofthehouse - I had the impression that with a $72k MSRP, students and parents may ask the question, “Is it worth it?” ND marketing is assuming this underlying question and attempting to answer it upfront. I hope you have the same experience my DS son had last year where he felt immediately “at home” and supported by the community. You cannot place a monetary value or payback on that. Welcome Home, GO IRISH!
@usma87 From his postings, @QB18ND23 will attend Notre Dame on a full ride financial aid package that covers total cost of attendance, including:
Tuition and fees
Room and board
Books and supplies
Travel expenses
with no parental contribution and no student loans, financed by Notre Dame. That changes one’s perspective and the question of “Is it worth it?”, otherwise so important to ND parents footing the bill, suddenly becomes a lot less relevant, I guess :-).
I think ND is a school that might feel they have to let every know that they have the academics and the prep for jobs, because they are so well known for other things. Imo, they should also present the research and development, critical thinking that is important there. Yes, it’s a top school and it should be obvious. But with the sticker price these days, everything should be right out there. A lot families are thinking long and hard about the increasing prices of these private colleges.
@cptofthehouse - the advantage at a private school is that they can be more flexible with aid. My DS would receive no aid at UC schools. At ND, we receive very generous aid. We are paying less than 1/2 of the cost of UCLA or UC Irvine for our son to attend ND. Your point is well taken, college cost is out of control.
Physics may also leave you unemployed unless you end up getting a Ph.D.
For someone coming from a very low income family, as you state, your financial future should be a concern of yours.
@TomSrOfBoston
I see no evidence of that being a likely outcome. According to the 2017 Final Destination report, physics majors from ND do just fine and have starting salaries comparable to engineers. Of course, the bachelor’s won’t be my terminal degree. It’s there for me to figure out what I should do — a decision I cannot allow myself to make right now influenced by money. I might go the academic route, go into engineering, or go into medical physics.
Look more closely. They aren’t working in the fieid of physics. I have a kid with a physics degree. If you want to work in the fieid, grad school is pretty much a requirement. With a degree like engineering and business, you can typically go right into a decent entry level job related to your major.
@QB18ND23 Your trepidation is understandable, particularly as a Questbridge Scholar who has been given a single binding offer of admission to a school that you have never visited (and thus, are leaping to conclusions based on academic info packets and websites which, as pointed out above, are a poor means of assessing any school - no less a school like Notre Dame). The Notre Dame experience is marked by intellectual vibrancy, spiritual depth and social ties that bind the community into one like none other.
Whether you major in engineering or physics is entirely up to you, and you will have time to make that decision after you arrive on campus. You will learn a lot from professors, peers and the administration as to what the trade-offs of such a decision are. Interestingly, as a counterpoint to your views, one of the parents at orientation week-end last year remarked to a Career Placement official following a presentation on opportunities that they were concerned about Notre Dame’s effort to push people away from business, law and professional careers into service areas such as teaching and community service. This view was equally flawed, but borne out of a misunderstanding of the importance of the concept of service at Notre Dame.
Notre Dame has a strong culture, one where gratitude and selflessness are important elements. Be grateful for your the opportunity given to you (acceptance and a full ride to an amazing school) and to the school and community that has given it to you. May you make the most of it! And welcome to Notre Dame!
@intparent
I’m very well aware of that. I’m not expecting to actually be doing academic physics with just a bachelor’s. If I choose to go that route, then obviously a PhD will be needed.
It’s a good idea to at least have a career goal in mind when you pick a major. Undergrads in physics without advanced degrees often end up working as analysts for financial companies. In software development, or as high school physics teachers. The first two hire them for their quant skills, but if that’s the job you want, then major in business or CS. While I am somewhat sympathetic to not wanting to make college all about money, you’ve also been given a great opportunity to break out of the low income financial situation you grew up in. Keep that in mind as you consider majors. I’d suggest you start visiting the career/job placement office fall of freshman year.