a rant for the day. sorry.

Paying for College
1

<p>After discussing it with my parents, it just feels completely bogus.</p>

<p>I'm a junior right now about to be a senior next year after this summer, and the schools that I am considering are: University of Washington, Evergreen State College, Scripps College, University of Chicago, Rice University, Stanford University, Pitzer College</p>

<p>I've repeatedly talked about college with my parents, and it always just ends up being the same discussion and argument.</p>

<p>My parents want me to go to UW, because it is the cheapest with the highest prestige (I would be an in-stater). I don't want to go there at all. I just don't want that big of a school, staying in-state in Seattle, and going to the same place that everyone else goes. It just doesn't feel right to me.</p>

<p>And the same discussion that ALWAYS happens is that I can go to any other school I'd like if it ends up as the same in-state tuition price as UW (about $18,000) in SCHOLARSHIPS, and ONLY scholarships. The price tag cannot include loans.</p>

<p>But whenever Stanford University comes up, my parents say they will automatically sell the house and have any way for me to attend Stanford, even if I don't get scholarships.</p>

<p>I understand their logic and that UW is a good school and to get to go to UW at the in-state price is a catch, but honestly, it's ridiculous and it's such a double standard, and I have no way to persuade them. It's just complete bull that they will do anything for me to go to Stanford or any other Ivy League or school that they've heard of, but they will not pay for Scripps College because they've never heard of it or Rice University, University of Chicago because they've rarely heard of them either.</p>

<p>To get that much scholarship money is a burden on my shoulders to be able to go to a school that I'd like to attend. I am dependent on my parents, I rarely have time for a job because I do so much extra curricular activities and schoolwork, and right now getting a job would just be added stress. I've heard of QuestBridge and a lot of other scholarships, but with my parents' income, I most likely wouldn't get it comapred to others. And to apply to so many scholarships can take up so much time, time that's used for applications and schoolwork/EC's that I'm truly interested in and dedicated to. It's just completely dissapointing, and I'm frustrated.</p>

<p>My rant for the night. Sorry.</p>

2

<p>I know what you mean. My parents are exactly the same, except I live in California.</p>

3

<p>Well, it's a bit early to be talking about the "what-if's". I mean, you might not end up getting into UChicago/Rice/Stanford, so you might even end up at UW, and this topic wouldn't ever have to come up again...</p>

4

<p>Guess that's what you'll have to do. I am in your parents camp (though I don't think I would give Stanford or the ivies and out - I would say the instate amount is what we can afford). As far as loans, it seems they are trying to shield you from having a boatload of debt hanging over you at the end.</p>

5

<p>For what it may be worth, I agree with the parents too. In my humble opinion, State U is the baseline. If I can pay x dollars to send my child to State U, I would not pay x + y dollars to send my child to some other school, unless it's Harvard, Yale, Stanford, MIT, or possibly Princeton.</p>

<p>To the original poster: Look up the bios of the most prominent people in Seattle and see how many went to U-Dub. (Bill Gates is a dropout and doesn't count!) And know that in 10 or 15 years, you probably won't remember this issue or care. (Unless you are drowning in student loan debt. Then you will remember and care.)</p>

<p>JMHO.</p>

6

<p>It's their money and their choice. There are many people who say the same to their kids. (And by the way, would you feel better if they didn't make the exception for schools they feel are worth the money?)</p>

7

<p>at least you don't live in Seattle and your parents want you to attend UW.</p>

<p>From what I have heard from students attending both Pitzer and Scripps, I wouldn't go into extensive debt to attend either. ( not because of the "prestige" factor)
( if you are interested in Stanford, why not Pomona? more to the academic level of Stanford but better aid than Scripps or Pitzer. )</p>

8

<p>We had the same rule - No HYPSM ---> state school or same quality second tier schools + $ should be about the same as state school.</p>

9

<p>Gracie, have you done the FAFSA exercise? Is your EFC more than $18,000? If not, you may have other options. FWIW, I think you should be free to take on loans, with the understanding that you would pay them off. And don't give up so easily; go ahead and apply (when the time comes) to schools you like that give merit money. Many students don't get to go to their first choice, so it's often a compromise. If your number one aversion is to stay in Seattle and attend UW, then you must be willing to accept a financial package from other than your first choices. And perhaps your parents can be educated over time about the numerous available first-tier schools which are not ivies.</p>

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<p><a href="And%20by%20the%20way,%20would%20you%20feel%20better%20if%20they%20didn't%20make%20the%20exception%20for%20schools%20they%20feel%20are%20worth%20the%20money?">quote</a>

[/quote]
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<p>Yeah, I kinda would. I understand their logic, and I understand that to go to undergraduate school in-state without loads of debt is the smart thing to do. My rant and my mindset is probably being a bit childish, and yeah, I know going to UW is the right thing to do, and really, is probably what I'll end up doing. But it's the fact that they don't consider any other schools to be worth the money except the ones that they've heard of and are always plastered all over the news in Korea. It's polarizing.</p>

<p>I've asked them about Evergreen State, which is in-state and cheaper than UW, but they say no to it too unless I get a free ride from a full scholarship so they won't have to pay. Do you see what I mean? It's all about the name, and it just gets ridiculous at a point.</p>

11

<p>
[quote]
I can go to any other school I'd like if it ends up as the same in-state tuition price as UW (about $18,000)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I don't have a problems with this statement as it is the same exact conversation I had with my D when it came time to applying for colleges. You would be suprised to find that many parents use their state university price as a base line in order to pay for college.</p>

<p>However, I do think that you not being able to take out any kind of loan is unrealistic as many schools, your home school included it is not unusual for stafford loans at minimum to be part of the financial aid package. Unless you end up attending full freight somewhere and this would even be full and far between, they will have to be a little more flexible.</p>

12

<p>Ask them if you can APPLY to the schools you wish to apply to, along with UW. Make sure you get all your financial aid paperwork in on time, then see what happens. Rice does give merit aid, and their financial aid for us means that we paid approximately instate tuition costs for my daughter to attend. They cap loans depending on income: my son will graduate with less than $14625 in loans (actually more like 11000, since he earned enough scholarships to cover most of his first year loan), if your income is less than $30,000 there are no student loans, $30000-$60000 it's about $11000 (and less if you get some outside scholarships to cover your loans.) My daughter will graduate with no student loans from Rice. You just need to make sure that your parents are flexible enough to let you apply and then consider the options once you know what the options are. YOu won't know until April 1 of 2008 what your financial aid packages are like. Wait until then to angst about it all! You do need to realize, though, that you may have to attend UW if the FA doesn't work out! :)</p>

13

<p>I think you need to explain your side better to your parents.</p>

<p>I've talked to my parents about college. Our household income is around $90,000. This isn't enough to pay for some of the schools I'm looking it. However, my parents pretty much left money out of the conversation. They basically said that if I wanted to go to, for example, Dartmouth, then they would help in anyway they could, but the rest would fall on my shoulders. Then, they gave me two choices: I could go to Dartmouth and graduate with that financial burden or I could go to a cheaper school and graduate from there with little or no financial burden. So, the choice is up to me. I'm a bit of a realist. My parents don't think I know about our family income, but I do, and believe me, I'm grateful enough. However, I know that I'll have to pay for most of college by myself at one point or another, therefore, I don't worry much about money too much. I even said to my parents that I wanted them paying as little of my tuition as possible because they've done so much for me already. </p>

<p>I guess you just need to clarify your position, or actually establish it.</p>

14

<p>gracie:
Perhaps when you have financial aid offers in hand, then you can see for yourself what schools cost 18K (without loans).<br>
That said, I would caution you about borrowing money for an undergrad degree. Why? Well, I went to two fine schools in the Top 50 and while I enjoy my work, I barely make 20K a year. My husband dropped out of high school and went to a year of so of junior college, learned how to program computers (when they were a new commodity for most small businesses) and then learned an extremely obscure software program -- 10 years ago, his skill was in great demand and in 1997, he was earning over $100K a year.
Now it is true that his timing was superb and he happened in on a great wave of technology, but he also basically taught himself and with hard work, he had a very rewarding and well-paying career. And never graduated from college.
I would never discourage anyone from going to college, but I would discourage you from thinking that a degree from any of the schools you've mentioned automatically guarantees you a great career and a high salary. Because it is much more complicated than that. Out in the real world, no one cares if you were in the Spanish Club or Model UN.</p>

<p>Be glad that your parents are willing to sell the house to pay for Stanford: I wouldn't!</p>

<p>All best,</p>

<p>Linda C.</p>

15

<p>Run the calculators for financial aid. We have income of about $95000 and we are paying approximately instate tuition rates for Dd to go to Rice. :)</p>

16

<p>Also, make sure your parents will be willing to fill out the required financial aid paperwork. It will mean that they will have to get their taxes done as early as possible.</p>

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<p>Gracie,
I was in a very similar situation back in junior year. I fell in love with Hopkins and committed myself to going there no matter what the financial burden was. My parents really wanted me to go to University of MD (College Park), where I am in-state.</p>

<p>When applying for colleges, I did NOT want to apply to MD. There was no use in applying there - basically EVERYONE from my high school ends up going there, plus it was way too close, in a bad area, etc. (the list went on)</p>

<p>So I applied to MD, Hopkins, and 7 other schools. I spent the least amount of time on my MD application and spent my WHOLE winter break slaving over the other apps.</p>

<p>I rec'd all of my acceptances and denials. Yes, I got into Hopkins. And also Cornell, which was a nice surprise. Both of course, with absolutely no financial aid (well, except for loans, but they don't count). Maryland ended up giving me $8k a year, which just covers tuition. My parents said that they would let me go to Hopkins or Cornell, but they might have to sell the house we just bought, sell all of their stocks, and basically eat PB&J sandwiches for the rest of their lives (I quote my dad on this). There was a difference of $164k between Hopkins/Cornell and Maryland.</p>

<p>My story is getting pretty long, so I'll try to make it concise. Still not sure, I visited Maryland and realized that 1) there are 35,000 people there... the chances of seeing my HS friends are slim. 2) yes, the school is big, but there are clubs and tons of other activities that will allow me to be in small groups. 3) a large school has tons of facilities and funding. I'm really excited to go and the lack of financial burden is really nice.</p>

<p>So I'm not trying to say that UW is the right school for you. But give it a chance! I'm glad that I gave my in-state school one.</p>

18

<p>As many have said it's critical to run the EFC numbers. In our case, in turned out that our EFC (both FAFSA and PROFILE) was about equal to the full cost of our state school (Michigan). That meant that DS could apply anywhere he wanted and, in very general terms, it would all cost about the same. Merit money comes into play later and has the potential of eliminating loans at the private schools or dropping the state school price down to make it an incredible bargain.</p>

<p>I would also echo what many have said here - think long and hard before taking on debt at the undergraduate level, particularly if you are thinking about grad/professional school.</p>

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<p>Have you looked at adjoining states that offer out of state fee waivers? Neb. Missouri, Iowa, Kansas and Minnesota (maybe another or 2) offer fee waivers to out of state students so tuition is the same as for in state. Not all colleges, but alot of them do. Maybe that'd be something to look into.<br>
Are you wanting to just "get out of town"? or on your own? Are you afraid you'll have to live at home? I know nothing of your parents choice of school, but I do know the financial worry they are going through. Talk to yourself and figure out just what your objections are, come up with a solution that will make you both happy (or reasonably so) present them to your folks calmly, and ask for an open discussion. Calmly and discussion are the operative words here.
Good luck.</p>