Help Me Out

<p>Hey, I'm a high school junior but I figured I'd post this here to get some help. My parents have really been making me mad lately with this whole college search thing. I've always gotten good grades, have good SATs, basically everything necessary for college. But the problem is that my parents just expect me to be perfectly happy at some random state school up here in Wisconsin. And I don't want to go to UW Madison because its literally five miles from my house and i couldnt stand my parents "just stopping by" like every day on the way to work. I want to study international relations and with my qualifications I could easily get into some good east-coast schools and maybe even a chance at somewhere like Georgetown or Tufts.</p>

<p>Now I could understand their reasoning if they were low on money or something like that. But they both have jobs that pay around a hundred grand every year. Then they just go and stockpile it in some random account for them to buy a huge retirement home in Jamaica or wherever. Hell, they dont even have a college fund started. They think that just cuz they went to a school that wasnt that well known that I will be happy there too and i cant stand another 4 years in wisconsin. Of course their expected contribution will be huge for all schools when in reality they will pay nothing and expect me to deal with it.</p>

<p>So what I'm asking for I guess is advice on how to deal with this...Did any of you parents expect your sons/daughters to go to some random school even if they could achieve much higher? And is there any way for me to get increased financial aid because my parents wont pay for a cent of my education? Thanks a lot.</p>

<p>bigp, Sounds like you need to 1) present a convincing reason for your parents to understand why want to a different school then UW and 2) Find a college that fits and offers good MERIT aid. The answer to both problems involve some research. It's good that you have a major in mind and good stats, that will make your search easier. I would suggest that you do apply to UW Madison to appease your folks and as a safety, assuming that you would consider attending if you don't get into your reach schools. </p>

<p>And no, I didn't expect my kids to go to some random school even if they could have gotten into more challenging ones... They are at colleges that fit them just fine. I think we're all happy!</p>

<p>I would suggest that you start with the financial end of things, since that will drastically effect your college search. have them sit down and figure out what your "EFC" is going to be, both federal and institutional methodology.</p>

<p>I like these calculators: <a href="http://www.finaid.org/calculators/finaidestimate.phtml%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.finaid.org/calculators/finaidestimate.phtml&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>understand that the more accurate the figures you input, the more accurate your estimate will be.</p>

<p>Then you need to sit down with them and see what they are planning on paying for school. It does sound like you will have a large EFC. Maybe your parents don't understand that schools believe that parents will pay for college if they have the means? A better understanding of the process would help. This may take a little time, but really work as a team with your parents. You need to know what they are willing to pay. Maybe they are willing to pay the amount it would cost for you to attend UW but no more. Understand that it is their money, not yours, so they are the ones that can put the limits on what they are willing to contribute. </p>

<p>you asked if there was some way to get money if your parents won't pay -- you are dependent student unless you meet one of these requirements :</p>

<p>age 24 or older
married
have a dependent
served in the military
are an orphan or ward of the court
have already earned a bachelor's degree.</p>

<p>so the answer is -- no. You will be expected to pay your EFC. However, you can find outside scholarships and merit aid to pay, you just won't be able to use grants and aid that are need-based</p>

<p>You are going to have to work with the system. Start with the financial part -- then you can go onto the college search part.</p>

<p>First of all, U of Wisonsin is a fine school, and I think you are mistaken if you think attending Georgetown or Tufts means to "achieve much higher". I understand your hesitation about being close to home, but what made you think they want to see you much?</p>

<p>You options are limited if your parents refuse to pay for places like Georgetown as you will not be eligible for need-blind FA, and elite schools like that do not consider whether a student has willing parents or not. You will have to work a year or two to establish your financial independence. If going away for college means so much to you, then this will not be such a bad option. Your chance to be admitted to a top school will also improve.</p>

<p>I didn't ask my child to go to some random state u. She did apply to our state u honor program and gotten in. She received enough scholarships there to have a full ride if she had gone. Instead, she opted for a LAC that I pay full freight (not becuase she will not be eligible for some FA but because I do not believe we should ask for any).</p>

<p>Thanks...
I realize that Wisconsin is a good school, it's just that having grown up right next to it for my whole life... idk i guess i just hoped for a little different college experience, somewhere different.
Another question...like a ton of other IR majors after college I will most likely apply to the U.S. Foreign Service. I wonder how much where I went to school will matter when it comes to the final decision. It just seems like they will be soo much more likely to take someone from a top tier school than they would be from UW-Wherever. So is it worth it for me to try to go elsewhere or should I just forget it and go to wisconsin?</p>

<p>man, if only my parents would realize that schools expect them to pay for at least part of it...
why dont they get it that I just won't be happy in this state</p>

<p>College decisions are always a family matter. No, a college will not give you finaid merely because your parents will not pay the tuition, room and board fees.</p>

<p>My best advice is to do what our son did. Get cracking and do a lot of research to find colleges which have generous merit aid. If you can get accepted to a college or university which will have a net cost equivalent to an in-state public, your parents may be inclined to finance the balance. Of course you should also discuss this approach with them now to be certain all your work will not be for naught.</p>

<p>The college will not be one like Tufts or Georgetown but one like Dickenson, Beloit, Kalamazoo or Wooster. They are all fine colleges however.</p>

<p>Good luck.</p>

<p>Good advice so far. My son looked at Lewis & Clark and Goucher, both schools with EXCELLENT programs in International Relations and both of them will offer good merit aid to top students. Goucher is, I believe, the only school in the country that requires study abroad and they give students a stipend to help them afford it. The one graduate of Lewis and Clark I've had contact with is in the foreign service; I think it is a fairly common path to that career track. So go to their websites or a college guide and look them over. Merit scholarships go up to full tuition at Goucher (if you're a really strong student). I'm not sure of the top scholarships offered at Lewis & Clark. If you were able to get good enough merit scholarships, your parents' contribution (because it sounds like they're willing to pat something) might cover the rest, or you could contribute with your own work or reasonable loans. Beloit, I know also has great study abroad programs and offers good merit aid.</p>

<p>All of the above posters have very sound advice....do lots of research on your own. If you have the grades, ecs, SAT scores, etc....you should be able to find many schools that offer very healthy merit aid packages.</p>

<p>On another note.....I know it is difficult to read "tone" in a post, but you sound as if you are very spoiled. Do you have a roof over your head? Food in your belly? Shoes on your feet? Are you of the opinion that it is your parent's responsibility to foot the bill for an OOS education that you may very well be able to get in "your own backyard?" </p>

<p>Believe it or not, your parents are doing the responsible thing by saving for their retirement, as opposed to going in debt for your education. Someday you will understand that.</p>

<p>Well, I'm with the people who think UWisconsin is pretty good.... but so is UWashington and my kids didn't want to go there either, even though it's a whole half-an-hour away.</p>

<p>So here's my suggestion. Add up all the costs your parents will have if you go to UWisc (including room and board if you live on campus) and ask them if they'll cover that much. Then look for a merit scholarship that will cover the difference between that and another school that sounds better to you. There are a zillion threads here on what schools offer merit money. If you want international relations, Lewis and Clark out here on the "left" coast offers merit money and lots of it.</p>

<p>bigp not sure that your parents are the meanies you suggest.</p>

<p>Sounds like you need to sit down and talk this out. There are two sides to every story and both your parents need to hear yours and you need to hear theirs. Going against the grain I'll sat it isn't in the Parents job description that they have to pay for all, half or any of the education. Some do some don't. Some have the means some don't every situation is different. I would have to say that you probably don't understand your parents financial situation nor their goals. They may be in fact pushing certain schools since they intend to contribute only a portion or can only afford a certain amount, going here vrs going there may afford an option to minimize your loans or endup with no loans at all.</p>

<p>Parents closer to retirement age read all these stupid retirement books that are written. It's a habit some of us do. It's a terrible thing but they all seem to say the same one thing don't sacrifice your retirement or delay your goals for your children's education. </p>

<p>So see if you can get on common ground. I think it does sound like your parents are looking out for your best interests.</p>

<p>
[quote]
like a ton of other IR majors after college I will most likely apply to the U.S. Foreign Service. I wonder how much where I went to school will matter when it comes to the final decision.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Wisconsin actually has high visibility in its international relations programs, especially relating to Southeast Asia. Where you do your undergrad is not so important for entry into the foreign service, but for post graduate work there are several "feeders". If you're thinking about the diplomatic track then you'll need a masters for sure. </p>

<p>The key factors to pay attention to during your undergraduate years wherever you end up are to do well, gain language proficiency, intern in your area of interest, study abroad. This will put you in the running with those that graduate from the better known IR programs at the privates.</p>

<p>bigp, I can relate to your dilemma. 40 years ago I was destined for the University of Michigan but I yearned for an LAC (although I don't think they were called that then.) I went to Michigan, got a great education and lots of brand name recognition but I always wanted to be someplace else. I still regret not being able to get away from home, but at the time there was no way I could convince my father that there was any better choice than UMich. I now live 10,000 miles away from Michigan but it took a while.</p>

<p>Parents who can pay, but won't, pose a complex problem and merit money is often the only other option. The good news is that there are several smaller schools that are excellent for IR and reasonable for merit money. I'm not 100% sure of the financials, but I would think you should take a look at Macalester, Grinnell and maybe Carlton.</p>

<p>Good luck and let us know how you do.</p>

<p>Chiming in to say that $200K per year, while affluent, is not unlimited riches. Chances are a big chunk of that income is already committed on just maintaining the lifestyle that you enjoy. Do you realize that $20K is about what an in state public university rounds to, with room and board, books, and tuition? Taxes take a chunk of that $200K, so your parents' take home is considerably less than the $200K you are assuming. If they gross $200K as a couple, they may be netting around $130K or so, so $20K is a significant percentage of their after tax income. </p>

<p>Your parents are right on to fund their retirement first--who knows what could happen to either of them--you take for granted that they will be healthy and able to earn this level of income until retirement, but statistically not everybody does. </p>

<p>Quit acting like you are entitled to something that could soak up 1/4 of your parents income and maybe they will listen to you. You sound like a three year old screaming "but it's MIIIIIIIINE!!"</p>

<p>You need to research IR programs and come to your parents with options--College options A B & C may cost more but are noted for their IR programs, diversity (non-Wisconson-ness) of student body, and give scholarships for kids with your level of test scores/grades. Then strike a deal for what your parents will fund if you get the rest in scholarships.</p>

<p>And don't discount Wisconsin just because it's in your backyard, if it's good in your field. What about study abroad options? Money saved by attending a less expensive school can be spent on a year abroad or summer study/travel. We know one kid at a perfectly good Uni who has managed to spend about half his time studying in other countries. I'm not sure how he is swinging it, but he is getting a really good international education.</p>

<p>My child also chose not to attend the State Uni in our city, but I told him if he did (and it had a great program in his field) he would certainly live in the dorm and we would act as if he were out of town. (Unless, of course, he needed us to be in town for, say, a home-cooked meal.) ;)</p>

<p>bigp:</p>

<p>My S goes to school about 1.5 miles away from where we live. I have to make an appointment to see him. I do talk to him more regularly, but that would be true even if he were hundreds of miles away.</p>

<p>Madison is a wonderful school, and it's big enough that you probably would not get to see your parents any oftener than any other student.</p>

<p>Another idea: Some Midwestern state unis have deals whereby students from one state are considered instate for tuition purposes. Would that work for you?</p>

<p>Of course UW-Madison is a great school. I can understand wanting to go farther from home, but the Wisconsin program to India launched my sister and brother-in-law toward their careers in the foreign service (and their marriage)! And my sister was going to a LAC in a different state and found the Wisconsin program to be her best option for Indian studies.</p>

<p>It certainly isnt that im spoiled i don't think... I pay for food (breakfast & lunch, not dinner) every day, clothes, car (only way to get to school...parents wont drive me and too far to walk), and pretty much everything else except the house we live in.</p>

<p>I guess I just get frustrated when I see these kids on these forums who are grappling like "oh should i go to this school or this school" without even having to think about money. This seems to be everywhere on the forums but maybe it's just the type of kid who is on these forums anyway.</p>

<p>About the Midwest tuition deals: Only for Minnesota but i would rather go to wisconsin than there...maybe im just too picky and should just go with the cheapest one...looks like im gonna have to pay for all of it anyway at least I have some money saved up from the 3 jobs i am currently working at about 25-30 hrs a week now and 60 hrs a week during the summer to pay for all my necessities such as food and clothes. wow I am so spoiled</p>

<p>Bigp:</p>

<p>I do not think you are spoiled. I understand your desire to attend college elsewhere.</p>

<p>But it's hard to beat UW-Madison for both quality and value. I visited Madison a couple of times several years ago and was really impressed by the faculty, the facilities and the students. I also was taken to a great restaurant. Madison is a great place for your particular interests.</p>

<p>Would you be interested in being part of an exchange program or spending a semester or year studying abroad? </p>

<p>Anyway, let's see what April 1 brings. You never know. Don't be discouraged. You sound very self-reliant and self-motivated. You can make it work.</p>

<p>Well, I can definitely empathize with you - all through highschool I held out on the dream that I wanted to go to Dartmouth. But my Dad shot me down every chance he could get - why would he ever pay for that? What makes an Ivy so much better than our state school (mid 50s on USNWS rankings)? He even seriously wanted me to consider community college for two years. They make a lot of money themselves, and are more concerned with paying for horses, buying real estate, etc. My father commuted to our state school and got a job with Lockheed Martin, who paid for him to earn his master's in aerospace engineering. I understand that their approach is practical. But CC for two years with kids who failed out of highschool, when I had the resume and they had the money to send me to an Ivy? It seemed 1.) That I had worked for nothing and 2.) That I was "missing out" on all the things my friends were able to have.</p>

<p>The truth is you just have to reevaluate your priorities. Maybe all you can afford is Wisconsin, but geez, to me that's a better school than some of the ones you could get a ton of merit aid at (Goucher? Eh...). You worked hard during HS, but for the sake of learning, not for the sake of the prestige on your degree: and hopefully you will continue to do that in college, finding happiness not in the fact that you are going to Georgetown or are in some "better" state than Wisconsin, but that you are becoming an educated person who is ready to tackle anything. The truth is, if you do well at Wisconsin, and try to find good summer internships and things like that, you're job prospects aren't going to be any worse than somebody coming from Tufts/Georgetown.</p>

<p>It's a tough lesson to learn, to be internally motivated to succeed for the sake of education, rather than to always be working towards something "big and shiny"...but maybe you are lucky it's something your parents can help you learn.</p>

<p>Perhaps what you should do is apply to Wisconsin and to other schools with the hopes of getting merit aid. It's difficult to know what your parents' financial situation is exactly. But even if they have all the money in the world, it may be that they really think Wisconsin is good enough. It's certainly a fine school. To ease your worries, our daughter goes to school in our town (another Big 10) - and we never just drop by the dorm. Has not happened even once. We couldn't get in if we tried because you need an access card. She, on the other hand, comes home about every other week for something -- laundry, decent meal, hang out with friends, etc. My friends with kids in the same boat say they see their kids a lot the first year, and less and less as time goes by. Also, many kids do a semester or year abroad -- which you would certainly do with your interests. Livein on campus is not the same as living at home. It may not be the same as going far away, but you will definitely have your independence.</p>

<p>Bigp9998 -- if your options are that limited, let me seriously recommend that you take a hard look at UW-Milwaukee. I'm a grad, and although I didn't choose that career path I took and easily passed the Foreign Service exam. One of my close friends has been in the Foreign Service for twenty years -- also a UWM grad. Moreover, it's a MUCH better school than when we went there. Milwaukee is a great town, the campus is compact but very nice (and it's located in the very nicest part of the city), the facilities are terrific, and at a place like Milwaukee if you really want to study international relations you are going to have much less competition for the faculty's attention. Check out their website for their international studies program.</p>

<p>Needless to say, the other advantages are that UWM will cost no more than UW-Madison, and your parents can't stop in on the way to work! I have a nephew FROM Madison who came to Milwaukee because he wanted to go "away" to school as you do rather than "down the street" and since coming to UWM he has spent time in Australia and China. International studies are not limited just to the "name" schools in this day and age.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>By the way, my own son also wants to study IR and some day to be in the foreign service. I'm pretty sure he'll end up at a Liberal Arts college (he received a nice merit aid award, as described above, which narrowed the funding gap), but UWM was always on the table, as was UW-Madison.</p>