<p>" USMA is accused of used car sales tactics. " I would strongly disagree...</p>
<p>Trying to sell a car quickly before the dealer down the street is prepared to make a proposal. Sounds like a pretty good analogy to me.</p>
<p>Congrats big time!! One application (I know a ton of work & consideration went into it it) and you are Done!! and no tuition either! I am envious and send well wishes to your son & family.</p>
<p>Interesting analogy...our experience was that USNA thought son should want to go there because they were USNA. USMA was all about "here's who we are and what we have to offer you." Sometimes you just know what's right; what's a good fit. There is a place for everyone--he/she must search until he/she figures out where that place is. USNA69, you and I have been cyber pals for a year now, and you know at first I wanted my son to pick USNA. I figured it was much, much safer after commissioning...but fortunately my son knew to make a choice based on much more than where he was least likely to get shot at. I know now that my son made the best choice for him. I am very proud to be a part of the USMA family. That being said, all the SA's offer something unique to those bright, brave students who are looking for something greater than themselves. We all know our academy is best--the key is to figure out which academy is "ours." Best wishes to all who haven't figured out that piece yet!</p>
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you know at first I wanted my son to pick USNA. I figured it was much, much safer after commissioning.
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Ha, ha. That is not the reason you originally gave me. But I can keep your deep dark secrets.</p>
<p>Ann and I have agreed to disagree on this subject long ago. </p>
<p>And you are entirely correct, of course, about the rest of your post. I think I actually admitted earlier in this very thread that I tried to influence my son to apply for WP.</p>
<p>You are right, or course, that like most things, there was more than one reason...but all is water under the bridge now...and son is happy (as happy as one can be in a SA) at the fortress on the Hudson.</p>
<p>"Ann and I have agreed to disagree on this subject long ago."
USNA69 Indeed we do. Your analogy assumes that the buyer has to lock into a deal before any other proposals can be made. You and I both know that is simply not true. Both USNA and USMA candidates have until May 1 to make their decision about which "proposal" to accept.</p>
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<p>Not true at all. I am sure that the primary reason for the WP LOAs is to capture candidates being influenced by Early Action and Early Decision at civilian colleges. However, it absolutely does affect inter SA decisions. Kids like to feel wanted. "A bird in hand is worth two in the bush". An early WP LOA does influence the decision process, subtly perhaps but definite.</p>
<p>Let's take it one step further. The candidate lives in a highly competitive district where his MOC forces him to choose which nomination he will seek. Which one do you think he will go after since he has not heard anything from USNA but has a USMA LOA in hand? </p>
<p>May 1 deadlines become totally inconsequential.</p>
<p>For those candidates whose 1st choice is USMA, yes the LOA makes a difference. My son withdrew his USNA application after he received his LOA in June as a rising senior. He knew that USNA was his 2nd choice. From what we have seen on this forum alone, those who have USNA as their 1st choice make no such decision, they wait and see what their options are. If the "undecideds" are swayed by West Points attention, I say good for West Point. When I apply for a job, the HR process makes a difference and reflects the company I am going to work for. There is absolutely no underhand dealing on USMAs part. They put their offer on the table with full disclosure and leave the candidate to decide. No "used car salesman tactics" are involved. Their product is not something that they "sell" to unsuspecting buyers. They fully understand that the candidate has to want West Point as much as West point wants them, and if that is not the case they would rather not have the "deal". It is my understanding the USNA sends out their early LOAS before the nomination deadlines so choosing nomination sources based on an LOA should not be an issue. If it is USNA should rethink their admissions strategy and plan accordingly...</p>
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<p>My educated guess is that WP sends out approximately six times the strictly academic LOAs as does USNA. The odds are that the candidate with a WP LOA does not have anything from USNA. Therefore, the decision is an issue.</p>
<p>For the Academy it is not a big deal. Only a couple of hundred each year apply to more than one SA. Of those that apply to both USNA and WP, 75% do ultimately choose USNA. It is just that out here in the field, if it affects a single one of my candidates, I am concerned.</p>
<p>The last reason and the major reason USNA does not change their policies is that I feel that the quantity of WP LOAs causes them to flirt with federal law appointment noncompliance.</p>
<p>It is my understanding that USMA sends out 200 or so LOAs each year.</p>
<p>Is it possible to get a rough idea of how many are academic LOAs by teasing out the athletic and URM LOAs? </p>
<p>It is my guess that there are probably many more athletic LOAs than academic or URM. But I have no source just anecdotal observation.</p>
<p>As for USNA - do they even give academic LOAs? Anecdotally I haven't seen or heard of any.</p>
<p>Is there a perceptual or actual advantage or disadvantage to academic LOAs for SAs?</p>
<p>If West Point has a candidate who went to SLS - they have his test scores, transcripts through junior year, he has seen the academy and they have seen him and he has had an opportunity to pass the CFA.</p>
<p>West Point knows what they want and if they want this candidate - they are in a position to make an offer. Why wait? By making the offer the candidate knows where West Point stands.
This is relationship building - showing the love.</p>
<p>I am sure some kids get early LOA's decide West Point is not for them. This is why West Point has a timeline attached to the LOA to complete the package. If the candidate is not interested he/she doesn't complete the package and they break up.
The LOA is freed up and the spot can be offered to another deserving candidate. So if the theory is true that WP is offering more LOA's that doesn't necessarily translate into more appointments.</p>
<p>When finances are a concern - the SA's have had an edge. However, now the top schools (Harvard, Penn etc) are/have doing away with binding early decision and offering "No loan" financial aid packages. If you are in a low socio-economic group you can go there practically for free. It will be harder for the SA's to compete against this.</p>
<p>I look at LOA's as academic recruiting. You know how everyone complains about athletic recruits? That guy got into Penn State only because he can play football - is a common theme.
Parents and college age students complain about that all the time.</p>
<p>This is a way to recruit the academically gifted candidate who is being wooed by other great schools. The LOA process is a win-win for everyone.</p>
<p>BTW - my cadet did not get an LOA - LOL. Far from it.</p>
<p>disclaimer - in my post I am referring to the practice of "academic" LOA's, not those given to URM's or athletic recruits.</p>
<p>How does a candidate know which kind of LOA he/she received? Please explain the term URM to the uninitiated who don't know what it means. Neither LOA (USMA and USNA) my son received referred to either academics or athletics. For what it's worth: the USNA LOA arrived just a few weeks after the USMA one...both before the MOC interviews.</p>
<p>URM - under-represented minority. The academies do make an effore to recruit candidates from a variety of backgrounds and race. Not all minorities are under-represented. Females are NOT an URM.</p>
<p>Maybe there is another variety of LOA for the "all around awesome dude/dudette" - mom3boys - that's probably your son :)</p>
<p>A candidate would likely know specifically if the LOA was athletic if he/she was in contact w/ an SA team coach.</p>
<p>Practically all of the LOAs (for all SAs) that have come out of our high school have been athletic according to our GC.</p>
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As for USNA - do they even give academic LOAs? Anecdotally I haven't seen or heard of any.
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they certainly do - a guy in my older daughter's class got one. He got one to USMA as well. He is a the top of his senior class at USNA this year.
It definitely was not an athletic LOA.</p>
<p>Sealion, I agree that my son is an all-around awesome dude; however, since he filled out the recruiting info form at both websites, I am certain it was athletically based. This makes me wonder: even if you are not interested in Div I sports, should you fill out the recruiting info on the SA sporting pages to increase your chance of the LOA? We didn't know what an LOA was when son began the process and only learned about it on this site. It was nice to have--took a little pressure off!</p>
<p>"I feel that the quantity of WP LOAs causes them to flirt with federal law appointment noncompliance."</p>
<p>Please substantiate that assertion with fact.</p>
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<p>It was a feeling, not an assertion. If one had to substantiate feelings with fact, the world would probably be a much lonelier place.</p>
<p>However, I will give the basis of my feelings. Probably one third of the class which attended MAPS or Civil Prep is guaranteed appointments. Add another 300 or so LOAs and the Admissions Dept is well into the national pool with guaranteed commitments. How deep can they go into this pool before they run a risk of being required to turn down a more qualified candidate simply because another has been given an LOA? Just for the sake of an argument, lets assume 300 MAPS/Civil Prep, another 300 LOAs typically offered early in the cycle, and only 400 of this combined group receiving primary nominations. That leaves 200 to compete in the national pool. What if qualified late applicants push the bottom qualified LOA lower on the list than remaining openings exist? Do they turn down an LOA with a nomination or do they jiggle the numbers a little bit (violate federal law) to offer him an appointment?</p>
<p>It is a fact that the size of the LOA group could conceivably push the Admissions Dept onto shaky grounds. How big? Without knowing the exact numbers and the application posture, I have no idea. However, I think it is close. Which is probably the determinant in the number of LOAs which they offer. I just, for the sake of that last qualified non-LOA candidate, hope they don't go over the line.</p>