<p>My drycleaning bills for my entire life; less than $20. Money spent on hair dye $0. Money spent on hair cuts: hmm.. I went from Mom cutting my hair, to roommates cutting my hair to husband cutting my hair, now sometimes splurge on Supercuts.... I know that the cost of living differs, but there is supposed to be an adjustment for that in the IM method. It looks like there is definitely a difference in what people consider normal expenses!</p>
<p>It's a business need. I wear suits and tailored dress shirts x five days a week, sometimes more than one suit a day, especially when traveling, which I do a lot. Even just a one day up and back flight, still cannot wear the suit a second day, on account of - if you wear a suit on an airplane, sitting in a seat for two - three hours, well, maybe it's just me, but, the suit smells like airplane (think of all the people who might have been sitting in that seat before - and the fact that airlines might vacuum, but they cannot launder the actual seats between flights). I cannot stand to wear a suit twice unless I have just been in my own car or office while wearing it. Plus, in hotels, packing suits in luggage, etc. - ick - nope, drycleaning is a must. There's just no way to keep everything nice and wearable if you're on a week-long business trip. Often I'll use the hotel's drycleaning service mid-trip, too. </p>
<p>So when I come home, I don't even go home first - I grab my car out of airport parking lot, put the luggage in the truck, then stop at the drycleaner on the way to drop everything off. If I'm coming in late at night, just leave the luggage in the car until the next day when the cleaner opens.</p>
<p>But I'm very frugal on other stuff - don't use hair dye (yet), and about six months ago I decided to stop even getting my hair cut. I'm a fan of Super Cuts - I used to wash and condition my hair, go in with it wet, and pay them just to cut ($6 ???) - but, having long hair that is all one length, I stopped even doing that. Curling just the ends, no one can tell if it's been cut or not. It looks fantastic and everyone compliments me, so, why pay for hair cuts anymore, until it gets too long. But I stone cold do not believe in $40 hair cuts and do not see the sense in them. </p>
<p>But that's not the point. The killer is the bigger expenses - property tax increases are capped here until you buy a new property, but, property insurance is simply wildly out of control, and there doesn't seem to be any relief in sight. </p>
<p>I want to buy a home in the more expensive city, but, think I am going to have to wait another year or so - the price of homes, the property tax structure and the insurance is just unbelievable. That's why we're stuck with renting a 2/1 in the more expensive city that is way too small. Dispite all efforts I still cannot find even another place to rent that we like and that also makes economic sense. Insurance companies are cancelling policies all over the place, even with homeowners who have had the policies for years with zero claims, forcing us into using the insurer of last resort.</p>
<p>Last weekend, I went to see yet more rentals. One place would have worked perfectly, except that it had some repair issues. So I'm standing there telling the landlord that if he would do a, b and c, we would take the place. I wasn't asking him for much - just permission to paint, and fix the washer and dryer so it actually worked - could we negotiate? As I'm saying this, his cell phone was ringing off the hook, which he answered while I was standing there, three or four calls in rapid succession, other people wanting to rent it. And then his next appointment walked in. It was 8:00 a.m., Sunday morning. I left my card. He never called. Someone who would happily take the place as is, got it. And it cost nearly $2,000/month. With no working laundry facilities, and it was very dirty. (I think I'm going to have to do as Kirmum suggested several weeks ago - payout several months advance rent.)</p>
<p>Getting back to the issue of EFC, financial aid packages and how colleges determine what students get, I wonder if they can even be aware - let alone compare - how these types of costs impact a family living in an expensive city, vs. a family who lives in a far less expensive area. Forget about the drycleaning - that's an issue anyone, even me, can decide to stop doing, especially if money is needed for college. But obviously one cannot simply decide to stop paying for property insurance, or property taxes. And in a tight housing market with rising costs, it's clearly not even reasonable that a family who may be renting can decide to move to less expensive housing...</p>
<p>Anyway, I am hoping the the colleges have a some sort of algorithm to use to calculate aid packages if the student is coming from one of these more expensive areas.</p>
<p>Abasket, back to your original question re what did we expect to pay for college (I'm feeling guilty about the thread hijack), well, we didn't really know what to expect, with the exception that scholarships would kick in. </p>
<p>When all the acceptances and packages were finally on the table in April, we took everything and put it into a spreadsheet - all scholarships, then we added in all travel costs, warddrobe (some of the acceptances were in areas of the country where it gets very cold), etc. Then, we went to visit those campuses where D was accepted and the costs were tolerable (NYU - D declined off the bat, they offered nothing worth considering). D also met with coaching staff. My recollection is that she chose the school because of the pre-med program and the coaches. But we evaluated cost vs. total benefit (academic interest, athletic reach, and capacity for grad/med school interests), not merely cost on its own. </p>
<p>After the first year, additional money was offered, so, undergrad has been an unexpected gift. I think we got lucky and D was able to attract some nice offers from inside the school once she matriculated. But graduate school is clearly going to be a different story altogether - looking at potential costs, assuming she even gets accepted anywhere, I think she is facing some very serious expenses.</p>
<p>My recommendation would be to study everything very carefully, and ask lots and lots of questions, and look at it from every side. I would also build the financial plan from the top down - assuming your daughter will want graduate school, and assuming you may want to help her with this, work backwards from that potential cost (and admissions) structure.</p>
<p>
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I have students whose families live on 12,000/yr. In north Jersey.
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</p>
<p>Something tells me that they do not pay for a medical insurance policy on that income. Something tells me that they don't pay $1000/month in property taxes, which is where the primary source of funds come from to pay for public schools in this state.</p>
<p>Do you think that if they are hospitalized that most of the people living on 12,000/year are paying their bill without a government sponsored program (paid for with tax dollars)?</p>
<p>Exactly, Northeastmom. I would never want to switch places with a low-income family, but the government (meaning the rest of us) does pick up costs for much of the "stuff" that you and I pay on our own.</p>
<p>I have to defend LTS on her drycleaning costs. If you are wearing suits, meeting clients, traveling on planes, etc., the bills are sky high, but also absolutely necessary. I haven't worked in that setting for ages, but I remember the bills being killer. You can't throw a suit in the washing machine. When I became a nurse in middle age, I loved the low cost of uniforms that could be tossed in the wash. What a cost break (and comfort break) from the old Fortune 1000 attire. Now, as a SAHM, I only dry clean the occasional dresssy outfit or suit that I wore to a rare dressy function or funeral. I'm normally in jeans or dockers, so not much need for it. But just from the holiday party clothes, I spent at least $100 at the drycleaner. How about spring drycleaning for coats & Aran sweaters? Not cheap, but not something you can choose to skip.</p>
<p>I also can understand the dry cleaning costs. When one works for others there is usually a dress code.</p>
<p>I'm just a student so I really have no idea about taxes, etc. But those of you who live in NJ, NY, MA and are paying high property taxes, well I assume some of that money supports the fantastic schools you have up there. So when your child applied to college, you were able to say, look at my child, they did well in a very prestigious school. So from that angle, your property taxes bought your child's education throughout their lives.</p>
<p>I am from South Carolina. We never had science equipment in school. I entered high school without ever touching a microscope. I remember in middle school we went several weeks without testing because the school had run out of paper. Yes, paper was a resource. I could go on. </p>
<p>My parent's property taxes are lower than yours, and so maybe now we have more "cushion" in our ability to afford college, but to no avail, I didn't receive the education that your child received and I feel like that makes it harder for me to gain admission to the colleges I would like to attend. </p>
<p>So I guess it is all a tradeoff.</p>
<p>Northeastmom--Property taxes are included in rent. Jersey gives a small deduction to renters to acknowledge that.</p>
<p>These are working people. They work as hard as you do. Their health care coverage is minimal to non-existent, and it shows in their health.</p>
<p>My point, though, is not to fight the class war. It is to point out that it doesn't take a 200,000 income to live comfortably in North Jersey. Or even a 100,000 one. 12,000 makes for a lot of discomfort. 10X that does not.</p>
<p>And even addressing the property tax issue--I live in a house, I pay property taxes, I think they're ridiculously high at 5000. Until I see what you all are paying. Which leads me to believe you are probably getting a lot back which I don't, like the socalled competitive schools. Again, a choice. In every area, there are the towns with the, um, not so competitive schools. Their taxes are lower. Many people choose the high taxes to go with the good schools. Or, choose to tax themselves by paying for " good" private schools.</p>
<p>So, I shave about 5-70000 off my taxes by choosing differently. Much more by sticking with the public schools. Thousands and thousands more by buying the cheapest house in town which means my mortgage was much lower than the expensive towns around me. I pay 4000/yr towards health insurance, plus all the deductibles and stuff, but is that so much cheaper in the socalled cheap parts of the country? Health costs money, everywhere.</p>
<p>We walk to work; if we have to go farther, we take the hybrid--45 mph, plus the government's gonna give me a tax credit! My kids have never owned cars. </p>
<p>But my point, again!, is not to say, look what I did, or, too bad for you if you differently. It is, rather, that 200K is wealthy. Count-your-blessings-and-celebrate-wealthy. And it doesn't matter where you live. It's at the tippy top in every state in the country. Smile and enjoy it, for gosh sakes!</p>
<p>MM2007--good point. But, don't let your schools hold you back. Though we live in New jersey, my kids ( see above posts) did not go to the types of schools which the richer districts in Jersey provide. Far from it. Yet they got into very good colleges. It's more important who you are, and what you do with the education available. Don't let yourself be intimidated by what others have.</p>
<p>garland, those renters cannot carrry our schools which are funded primarily through property taxes. This is precisely why it is so difficult for someone making 12,000 to find housing in our community (paying rent). In fact, I doubt that you could even find it at all. I am only speaking about the community that I live in.</p>
<p>You pay 4,000 "towards" healthcare. I presume that this means that your employer is paying for part of it. I can tell you that we have to pay over 15,000 for our family's policy. I guess that this is where the government is getting the 15000 tax deduction figure from (those that realistically need to pay the full price themselves in this area). Even our government has recognized that there is a problem with health insurance, and recognized it for years. Now that so many people walk around uninsured, there is another wake up call, maybe something will get done to ease the burden.</p>
<p>AGree on healthcare, I favor national single payer myself.</p>
<p>Of course people with that little money can't live in your neighborhoods. That's precisely my point. They still live in the same region of the country. It doesn't take six figures to live in North Jersey, or NYC suburbs, or LI. You just have to live in those "other" neighborhoods, like mine.</p>
<p>akdad:</p>
<p>Running the CB Profile calculator, a lower income person would have to have $900k in NET equity to become full pay based on the math alone. While housing has climbed appreciably in many areas, there are probably few lower income folks who have the downstroke to get into one of those houses. However, some (many?) college cap the equity as a multiple of income so they won't force you to borrow money you can't pay back.</p>
<p>To all mentioning property taxes...... All states have several sources of taxes, some higher than others. But, 9 states have no income tax, and, as a result, need to tax other things higher to maintain state services; so, they tax property and/or sales higher to make up for it. For example, even tho Calif has Prop 13 at ~1% of purchase price -- great for longer time owners -- the state's net tax take (personal, sales, income) is one of the highest in the nation. Of course, NY and NJ are right up there.</p>
<p>Speaking of taxes, Profile makes an ajustment by state for those....anyone know how it works for states with no income taxes?</p>
<p>No, folks making 12K a year aren't paying for pricey health insurance policies- they should be grateful about how much money they're saving. But the kid can't concentrate in school because he's got an abcessed tooth which hurts so bad; mom discovers she's got stage 3 breast cancer since she never had a mammogram. You're actually begrudging people at this income level their so-called "free" access to medical care at an ER?</p>
<p>I've got a friend who is a dentist who spends his vacation every year volunteering at a free clinic. The stories he tells would make you cry. Yes-- poor people can show up at a hospital and get treated. Do you think it's fun learning that you've got leukemia or an oral cancer which got diagnosed by accident when you went to get your teeth cleaned????</p>
<p>I live in the N/east. My property taxes are quite reasonable.... I live in an urban area which has been friendly to industry for the last 100 years and as a result, has a healthy corporate tax base. We could move to a gated community in another part of the country with no business base or public transportation or any other expensive infrastructure and be forced to drive 10 miles for a gallon of milk instead of walking down the street to the grocery store. Life is full of trade-offs.</p>
<p>"For every Long Island family like the Rowes, who own a home and have some savings, someone's just getting by. With a combined income of $35,000 from working on a farm and cleaning houses, Marcelino and Jauquina Rojano of Bridgehampton have held on to very little. Their oldest child, Matthew, has applied to five SUNY schools, and the other night Marcelino and Jauquina joined him at a financial aid seminar at Bridgehampton Elementary and High School. The guest speaker, who was sponsored by Bank of America, rattled off a mishmash about loans and grants: Pells, Perkins, PLUS, Staffords and Coverdales.</p>
<p>"You can consider converting assets like stocks and bonds and real estate, and you can refinance your house," said the speaker, Kendall Clark.</p>
<p>The Rojanos stared straight ahead. They don't own stocks, and they live in a rented trailer. Their most valuable assets are two Chevy pickups."</p>
<p>I pay over $12,000 each year in property taxes. My town high school is nothing to sing about, so I pay another $12 grand for d's Catholic h.s. (plus spend 3 hours in a car driving her there and back.) When we moved to this town 20 years ago, the school system was much better. Sadly, it is chugging along on a past reputation that it no longer deserves. Nepotism & inertia has ruined it, I'm afraid. Yes, we have a choice of moving. But we have settled in & our roots are pretty deep at this point. My home has appreciated sharply, so if we sold, we'd probably make at least a $500,000 profit. Believe me, I feel BLESSED and GRATEFUL. But I come hard-wired with a Depression era mentality of having a mortgage-burning celebration when the house is paid off. Second mortgages that will need to be paid off long into retirement are not real appealing. Our house is our home. Yes, it is a valuable investment, but it is unsettling to thing of leveraging its value for education purposes. When I was a kid, we had to sell our home to pay nursing home bills, then dad's employer went bankrupt in a huge scandal, & dad died not too long afterwards. I know how quickly financial circumstances can change. Been there, done that. Our 401ks & IRAs are a priority in this household. As are the 529s.</p>
<p>It's the big ticket items that are killer. I'm able to control the little expenses. Like make my kids take water bottles from home (cost: 24 for $4.99) rather than buy one for $2.00 each at the ice rink or concession stand at a sporting event. But I do feel helpless as unfunded mandates and corruption bleed us dry.</p>
<p>mini, the Rojanos can send their kids to an Ivy for free. I'm not envying their hard circumstances, but I think the truly poor are well taken care of in terms of college costs.</p>
<p>Ouch. (response to post #54) I feel very, very blessed.<br>
Texas has no personal income tax, but, believe me, they make up for it with sales tax and property tax. We pay $6000 a year in property taxes for a house valued at $225,000, and sales tax is 8.25%, etc. Again, I feel blessed to have bought my house when I did, to live with a husband/partner, to have two decent incomes, and two lovely kids. (And the sky is blue blue blue today.) :)</p>
<p>garland,</p>
<p>be happy you only pay 5000 in property taxes. my parents constantly ***** that, like sticker shock, their property taxes were 12,000 this year :-P.</p>
<p>Oh, SS. Come to that college just a little south of you. Let me introduce you to my students. I assure you, they are not well taken care of in terms of college costs.</p>
<p>Jags--yup, that's the point I'm making. but would your parents live where I do? Probably not.</p>