Absolute disgrace

College Confidential Community
61

<p>imiracle911,</p>

<p>I am glad you chatted with him. Actually the link that I put earlier, <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-war_Germany_vs_post-war_Japan%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-war_Germany_vs_post-war_Japan&lt;/a>, gives a nice summary of Japan's responses to WWII crimes. When UCLAri said Japan "already apologized", it's not entirely incorrect. I think he just read a few things about Japan's response (likely biased to the Japanese side) and had just a very superficial idea of the subject and started defending for Japan on this board. But he really doesn't understand the context. He should have thought about the big picture and the issue more critically. Anyone who can sit back and look at the picture would know something just doesn't add up...
1. Japan still claims to have Dokdo Island and Diaoyu Island by their twisted view of history! These islands were historically documented and owned by Korea and China long before they were unilaterally incorporated into Japan's territory by their governement as part of their first wave of agression against Korea/China around the late 1800s. Japanese government, for some reason, just defies logic when claiming territories and interpreting history. Arguing with them is like arguing with an idiot--a lose-lose situation. If they are really apologetic about their agression, why do they keep fighting over them with the neighbors?
2. Why paying homage to Yasukuni Shrine which honors the war deads that include the convicted war criminals? Why are those war criminals there at the first place? Take those out and then Koizumi can go there everyday and no one is gonna say anything. It's just that simple! You'd think it should be very obvious that its wrong but not for the Japanese. I think I read somewhere that said the public support was 50/50 for visiting the shrine!
3. There's no wide-spread consensus among Japanese as to what the Japanese military did before and during the war, thanks to their twisted history textbooks. People like UCLAri said they apologized but what exactly did they "apologize" (often the word "regret" was used instead) for? For causing the war? For causing "some" deaths? For causing "disturbances"? Or for atrocities? Even if Japanese government makes another "official apology" today, it doesn't mean anything until what they apologize for is defined.
4. jrcho88's link--a comic book that dismisses the Rape of Nanjing as a fabrication of the Chinese governemnt becomes the best seller! This just proves something is missing in their understanding of history. UCLAri said they had to know about the atrocities for their entrance exam. I really question UCLAri's honesty in his statement. Anyway, imagine a book that dismisses slavery becoming the best seller in the US! Thank God America isn't like that!</p>

62

<p>UCLAri,</p>

<p>Just because we are able to differentiate the differences doesn't mean our views are narrowed. </p>

<p>My main point throughout my posts was Japanese governement hasn't faced up to its past regarding the War. Look back to what your wrote; anyone who doesn't know anything about it could easily be misled by you and think responses from Japan and Germany were about the same (hence all these Asians are all upset for nothing and should learn from their European counterparts to let it go) when they are actually miles apart. You then threw in Cultural Revolution..etc. to digress; to me, Cultural Revolution and Japanese atrocities were so fundamentally different that you putting the two on the same page led me to think you didn't really know what Cultural Revolution was. I apologize for making the wrong assumption. However, going back to the original issue, I suggest you not just read the Japanese side of the story, but also look at it more holistically and perhaps the Korean/Chinese side of the story. For example, that a comic book reiterating the Rape of Nanjing as fabrication has been so well-received and hasn't raised much flag is a troubling sign. It's equivalent to a publication saying Holocaust as a hoax being well-received by Germans! However, in reality, it just doesn't happen in Germany. So why there's such a big difference? You don't need complains from other Asian countries to know something is probably wrong with the picture.</p>

63

<p>
[quote]
I really question UCLAri's honesty in his statement.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Ad hominem is a great tactic, and you LOVE using it as much as possible, don't you?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Anyway, imagine a book that dismisses slavery becoming the best seller in the US! Thank God America isn't like that!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Trent Lott's wonderful comments, anyone? Michelle Malkin? Really, you think we don't have kooks in America? </p>

<p>
[quote]
I think I read somewhere that said the public support was 50/50 for visiting the shrine!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>This ****es me off, no doubt. But then again, at least in Japan you know who the idiots are, unlike in Germany where neo-Nazism is underground. I'd rather know who my enemies are than wonder.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Cultural Revolution and Japanese atrocities were so fundamentally different that you putting the two on the same page led me to think you didn't really know what Cultural Revolution was.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>To me, the sanctioning of murder and torture is the sanctioning of murder and torture. I don't care who sanctions it. What, because the Chinese did it to themselves, it's okay? </p>

<p>
[quote]
I suggest you not just read the Japanese side of the story, but also look at it more holistically and perhaps the Korean/Chinese side of the story.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I suggest you read what I have to say and not ASSume stuff. But I guess that's too much to ask for. You wonder why I'm tired of talking to you? You don't read what I say, you read what you want me to say. </p>

<p>
[quote]
It's equivalent to a publication saying Holocaust as a hoax being well-received by Germans!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Holocaust denial is a big business. Try getting involved in the Jewish community, and you'll see that we have to deal with it too. But, why not read both sides of the story? ;)</p>

<p>
[quote]
So why there's such a big difference? You don't need complains from other Asian countries to know something is probably wrong with the picture.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I'm upset with the Japanese, no doubt. But, I'm saying this:</p>

<ol>
<li> jrcho88 is a racist bastard. We need less of those. (Yes, I stooped to ad hominem territory. Oh well)</li>
<li> I see these kinds of events as crimes against humanity, not crimes against Chinese/Armenians/Jews. I couldn't care less about borders. I care about people. If you can't think beyond race, then you're part of the problem, as far as I'm concerned.</li>
<li> Give credit where credit's due, or you'll find out soon enough that the rest of that 100% of the Japanese might find the denial camp pretty cozy.</li>
<li> You get more flies with honey than vinegar.</li>
<li> Quit assuming that I'm some apologetic for the Japanese. I can probably list more things I hate about Japan than you could ever come up with. But since you jumped down my throat faster than a face hugger from Alien, I didn't feel too savvy with siding with you. Capiche?</li>
</ol>

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<p>UCLAri,</p>

<ol>
<li><p>I apologized for making assumptions about your knowledge and your position.</p></li>
<li><p>Regarding how one should view different (or view them as the same) wars, atrocities, chaos, that's a complex subject I respect your view but that's not the original subject we were debating. Even if Cultural Revolution were the same thing just for argument sake, it doesn't change anything about the war crimes commited during WWII or how Japan should respond to it. Coincidently, according to what I read, that other countries have their own sins was one of the classical excuses some Japanese use to evade the subject. So when you brought it up in the middle of discussion about Japan's handling of the war history, it was seen as an attempt to digress and dilute the degree and nature of the crimes Japanese military did even that's probably not your intention.</p></li>
<li><p>Given you do know something about this subject, you should have been more sensitive right from the beginning and not to make statements that are technicly correct but misleading and used often by some right-winged Japanese (that's why jrcho88 assumed you were a Japanese):</p></li>
</ol>

<p>a. You first countered some of us by saying Japan did "apologize" and then went on to say other Asians didn't give Japan credit it deserves. I actually put a link and quote that did say Japan has made "apology" (regret) but the same link also gives a more indepth look of that "apology" and why other Asians discredit it. As I already mentioned, Japan's behavior has been very inconsistent and the government never seem to mean what they say. Who knows what the government apologized for? They may be even just apologizing for fighting back out of self-defense which triggered the war (according to what I read, at least one textbook said the war started as an retaliation and self-defense by Japanese soldiers). However, even you probably didn't mean that, but the message I was getting from you was: "Japan has done enough; time to leave it alone". </p>

<p>b. You said all Japanese students must know about "atrocities" for their college entrance exam. First of all, what do you mean exactly? Other Asians were not arguing if their textbooks mention WWII; they were complaining that Japanese textbooks often give accounts that vary from vague and short to outright lies, depending on which book you are looking at.
A lot of my readings were written by Westerners, not Chinese war propaganda just so you know. Iris Chang, the author of Rape of Nanjing, is an American-born Chinese. The following is from Wikipedia (NOT from People's Daily):

[quote]
The Chinese government has repeatedly maligned Japanese textbooks for exaggerating incorrect or controversial accounts that ameliorate Japanese atrocities, including descriptions of comfort women as paid prostitutes or paid workers. For a few years in the 1980s, text books for elementary schools contained descriptions of "comfort women" but this was discontinued as it would have meant that children before any sex education would be exposed to sensitve materials. But this is an irrevelent point and distracts from the issue concerning Japanese High School textbooks, which also feature little critical mention of the war.

[/quote]

I can't read Japanese so I do have to rely on secondary sources to tell me what Japanese textbooks say. I read that some books (the ones considered moderate) would say something like "many Chinese civilians and Japanese soldiers" were killed. What does "many" mean? Hundreds? Thousands? Everyone knows many people die in a war anyway! About 300,000 Chinese died in Rape of Nanjing and a total of 10 to 30 millions (mostly civilians) were killed during those 8 years of Japanese invasion. Holocaust wouldn't be called Holocaust if only hundreds, instead of millions, of Jews were killed.
I also read that stuff like Rape of Nanjing/comfort women are usually omitted and the word massacre is nowhere to be found. The revisionist one(s) are even worse (lies). If you can read Japanese (you said you could speak Japanese/Mandarin but I don't know if you can read), maybe you can go to pick out some of their textbooks and tell us what exactly the kind of wordings they use and what they say and what not.</p>

<ol>
<li>I never said I condone torture and killings during the Cultural Revolution. Yes, Chinese did kill Chinese and they committed crimes against each other. But the Chinese didn't kill each other just for fun like the Japanese did to the Chinese. Many Red Guards did what they did because they thought they were doing the right thing and driven by seemingly grand but false ideology/vision propagated by Mao. I am not saying they were justified but just pointing out one of the driving forces behind. This is very different from the Japanese army seeing Chinese/Koreans as subhumans, killing them with pleasure, toying with their fetus, spreading germs to them, raping them before stabbing them to death..etc.</li>
</ol>

65

<p>well let's broaden this to korea as well. Idk about China getting apologies but korea NEVER got an apology. This is for sure and they don't even acknowledge the sex slaves they used for soldier's pleasure as well as the forced laborers in Sahalin(sp?), the island north of Japan that is currently Russian territory, or any of the tortures they did to our patriots seeking for independence. Also i've never seen them acknowledge the fact that they conscripted 8-13 year old boys to be take all the bullets during battle. What enfuriates me is that they say all the success Korea has had was because of JAPAN in addition to the Dukdo issue where it is CLEARLY proven that Dukdo was ours from the early 1400s and possible 375 when Shilla conquered the nearby island Woolrundo. It even says so in pre-maj era Japanese history books. it even says so in the SURRENDER treaty that Japan acknowledges Korea's independence including Dukdo. Yet they argue that it's theirs. I just hate the arrogance of the Japanese government from that POV.</p>

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<p>Sam Lee,</p>

<p>Sorry man, but too little too late. I'm out of here. This is another silly thread about how "my people was hurt by those people." Yes, it was wrong. But with people like jrcho running around, we just repeat the cycle. The first thing you need to do if you want to fix the problem is moderate the voices you consider to be on your side. </p>

<p>And if you think the Chinese/Koreans have it bad, try being Armenian. Talk about revisionism. It isn't even recognized in the US as history.</p>

67

<p>
[quote]

Trent Lott's wonderful comments, anyone? Michelle Malkin? Really, you think we don't have kooks in America?

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/487031682X/250-2167963-4969064%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/487031682X/250-2167963-4969064&lt;/a>
<a href="http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/488380478X/qid=1132603791/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_10_2/250-2167963-4969064%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/488380478X/qid=1132603791/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_10_2/250-2167963-4969064&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>These are the books on Amazon Japan.</p>

<p>The mainstream public of Japan doesn't seem to hate it.</p>

<p>I have no idea who Trent Lott or Michelle Malkin is, but do their books sell one million copies in the US??</p>

<p>Fine, if you're gonna be offended at the word "Jap" then I'm sorry, because I used it as a contraction, as I've seen people use it many times in my school as a contraction, but I guess its predominantly a racist term.</p>

<p>I think, while you scream ad homenim here and there, I think you're the one who is resorting to that. You are not arguing with my points, you are arguing with who I am. Fine, I used "Jap", but let's hear your rebuttal of my arguments too. </p>

<p>BTW, when you said "everything is too small here", anybody else think of what I just thought of? :D :D
Corny, but I thought I'd try to put some comic relief to this argument.</p>

<p>However, to summarize (i forget, but from what I remember)</p>

<ol>
<li>I don't think that Japan should have excluded or even downplay a massacre. Germany does not do this.</li>
<li>As for the war criminal temple thing... no comment, as it is too ridiculous</li>
<li>The claim "Japan built the South Korea of today" is false and actually the contrary to the truth. Japan culture IS based on that of China, which was passed on by Korea.</li>
<li>The government's actions are surely ridiculous; I think we can reach a consensus on that. What does that say about the people who repeatedly vote them back in? I mean it wasn't the first time they visit the shrines of war criminals is it?</li>
<li>The dokdo island is just simply ridiculous. Anybody with logic, would agree that the island is Korea's. As imiracle quotes, there are many documents that acknowledge this. The only evidences against it are from Japan, whose objectivity can be questioned. Other evidences from Japan also run contrary as well.</li>
</ol>

<p>And....
Since I am now a "bollock" and a "racist bastard" I guess you can be a "nip-loving kike" as you put it in your own words.</p>

<p>BTW, do check out that NYTimes article and the Amazon Japan reviews.</p>

<p>3.5 and 4 stars for a book that makes claims equal to that of denying the holocast seems pretty stupid to me.</p>

68

<p>
[quote]

3.5 and 4 stars for a book that makes claims equal to that of denying the holocast seems pretty stupid to me.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So? David Duke's books sell pretty well in America. Does that make every American a racist? Use your head, man.</p>

<p>I just realized why I don't have sympathy for China. Here we go.</p>

<p>China openly and actively opposed any sanctions on Sudan during the Darfur crisis (pretty clearly) because of oil ties. So, in my eyes, that means that the Chinese want to jump up and down about what went on behind their borders decades ago, but when a genocide occurs IN FRONT OF THEIR EYES, they're quiet as a dormouse.</p>

<p>I call BS. </p>

<p>What, you guys think that throwing rocks at the Japanese embassy and throwing around racial epithets is what is going to make Tokyo do more? You're kidding yourselves. If you don't give at least partial credit now, you'll NEVER get more out of Japan. </p>

<p>But, as far as I'm concerned, until China starts owning up to its big power status and using that power to stop CURRENT human rights infringements (including those within its own borders), then I have ZERO sympathy for Beijing. </p>

<p>And look, I'm not anti-China. I love Chinese history, Mandarin, and everything Chinese. My future fiancee's family are all Chinese, and I love them to death, but I can't feel sympathy for the Chinese while they stand by idly, tacitly support a genocide, and then go and use MORE violence against the Japanese boogeyman.</p>

<p>Korea, on the other hand, has my full support.</p>

69

<p>
[quote]
whose objectivity can be questioned.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>All objectivity can be questioned in secondary sources, by the way. That's part of why being a social scientist blows.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I have no idea who Trent Lott or Michelle Malkin is, but do their books sell one million copies in the US??

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Another logical fallacy (argumentatum ad ignorantiam.) C'mon man, ever heard of Google?</p>

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<p>i think this thread should reach a conclusion by now. The Dukdo issue it's Japan's fault and the Japanese government still shows attitudes that possibly and actually do anger China and Korea. However, i will admit that japan has improved socially since the war era and that the people there rn't that stupid. However, i will say that the significance of history should not be overlooked. Japan through time should change but it's current policies at least towards Korea is flawed and what Japanese politicians and CEOs say which might be intended or might not be intended infuriate others b/c they sometimes say how Japan transformed Korea, China. It is true that the Japanese set up roads and railroads however one must not neglect that before 1910 when Japan took over Korea many foreign countries and companies already built railroads in Korea. Also it was never their intention to improve korea it was to develop a way to more efficiently exploit Korea of its natural and human resources. Although i still don't trust the Japanese government, i will admit that change is coming along. It isn't that militarist government and there isn't much threat of Japan attacking in the near future.</p>

71

<p>????
I honestly don't understand what your 2 posts did.</p>

<p>
[quote]

What, you guys think that throwing rocks at the Japanese embassy and throwing around racial epithets is what is going to make Tokyo do more? You're kidding yourselves. If you don't give at least partial credit now, you'll NEVER get more out of Japan.</p>

<p>But, as far as I'm concerned, until China starts owning up to its big power status and using that power to stop CURRENT human rights infringements (including those within its own borders), then I have ZERO sympathy for Beijing.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I pretty much agree with you on what you said here, except maybe a little less intense..</p>

<p>However, coming back on topic, I don't know if that is relevant to what I was trying to say, but perhaps I wasn't clear. I will copy and paste what my opinions are when it comes to Japan vs. Asia issues.</p>

<p>edited a little</p>

<ol>
<li>I don't think that Japan should have excluded or even downplay a massacre. Germany does not do this.</li>
<li>As for the war criminal temple thing... no comment, as it is too ridiculous</li>
<li>The claim "Japan built the South Korea of today" is false and actually the contrary to the truth. Japan culture IS based on that of China, which was passed on by Korea.</li>
<li>The government's actions are surely ridiculous; I think we can reach a consensus on that. What does that say about the people who repeatedly vote them back in? I mean it wasn't the first time they visit the shrines of war criminals is it?</li>
</ol>

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<p>jrcho,</p>

<p>My two posts did a jig, followed by the jitterbug.</p>

73

<p>
[quote]
I don't think that Japan should have excluded or even downplay a massacre. Germany does not do this.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Germany is possibly the only country in the world that doesn't. You think the Spanish treat their genocide of the American natives in their schools? You think the Turks deal with the Armenian genocide? You think the Chinese deal with Tibet? You think the Russians study about the pogroms?</p>

<p>Again, these are international problems, not Japanese problems. </p>

<p>
[quote]
2. As for the war criminal temple thing... no comment, as it is too ridiculous

[/quote]
</p>

<p>While I do not agree with Yasukuni visits, there is a reason. To the Japanese, Yasukuni is Arlington. Who would tell the US President that he can't visit Arlington? As far as I'm concerned, they should just move the criminal's bodies somewhere else, but telling the Japanese they can't honor their dead is absurd. </p>

<p>
[quote]
3. The claim "Japan built the South Korea of today" is false and actually the contrary to the truth. Japan culture IS based on that of China, which was passed on by Korea.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Japan actually had a fair amount of direct contact with China, and did have its own indigenous culture. While the effect of China and Korea on Japan was great, they're not a carbon copy of the mainland. Hell, they're as much Western today as they are Chinese.</p>

<p>
[quote]
4. The government's actions are surely ridiculous; I think we can reach a consensus on that. What does that say about the people who repeatedly vote them back in? I mean it wasn't the first time they visit the shrines of war criminals is it?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Think politically for a second here. Think like a voter (I know you're 17, but still). If your politicians are increasing your disposable income, do you really care what a few thousand screaming Koreans have to say? </p>

<p>Hell, South Carolina put Strom Thurmond into power for his whole life. What does that say about Americans? THINK ABOUT IT.</p>

74

<p>Japan did borrow alot but also contributed a fair amount to Asian culture, especially in the last few centuries. Some words common in Chinese today - such as "democracy", the suffix "-ism", "philosophy", "abstract", "romance", etc were coined by the Japanese who first had contact with the west and then borrowed back into Chinese while the Manchus were being staunchly isolationist, and now we use them without thinking. Cultures need to feed onto each other to progress, especially in today's technologically and economically entwined world.</p>

<p>Atrocities are bad, and people need to be aware of them. But the purpose is not to stir up vengeful sentiments. As my religious teacher said: you can't convert anyone by humiliating them in a debate.</p>

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<p>Good points. I will just add a few comments</p>

<p>
[quote]

Japan actually had a fair amount of direct contact with China, and did have its own indigenous culture. While the effect of China and Korea on Japan was great, they're not a carbon copy of the mainland. Hell, they're as much Western today as they are Chinese.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Right, I know that too. However, Japan did not "build the South Korea of today". You agree with that right?</p>

<p>
[quote]
but telling the Japanese they can't honor their dead is absurd.

[/quote]

Nobody is saying that they can't. Honouring war criminals is what angers people. They can whatever the f*** they want. However, morally, I do not think this is right. Do Germans honour Hitler, and Italians honour Musolini??</p>

<p>
[quote]
Again, these are international problems, not Japanese problems.

[/quote]

True, and a good point too. But do the Spanish actually neglect the genocide and call it an "incident" too?
Yeah, China has been pretty equally barbaric things. However, Japan is supposedly a first-world country, everybody acknowledges this, and it is ridiculous that their actions are being compared to those of China, which isn't even a democratic nation. Obviously, it doesn't excuse China. Anyhow, distortion of history is still incorrect. I know history is flexible and can be interpreted vote ways, but any rational person would agree that approx. 300,000 deaths = a massacre or a rape, not an incident.</p>

<p>As for #4, you've convinced me.</p>

76

<p>
[quote]
Japan did borrow alot but also contributed a fair amount to Asian culture, especially in the last few centuries. Some words common in Chinese today - such as "democracy", the suffix "-ism", "philosophy", "abstract", "romance", etc were coined by the Japanese who first had contact with the west and then borrowed back into Chinese while the Manchus were being staunchly isolationist, and now we use them without thinking. Cultures need to feed onto each other to progress, especially in today's technologically and economically entwined world.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah, obviously they are not completely carbon copies of China. Their writing, for example, though, is based on Chinese. I am sure many other aspects are based on Chinsese too. (also I'm talking back my claim that I made when I was mad, when I said that Japan just copies stuff and never invents their own)</p>

<p>However, all this is irrevelent to my original statement ---
that Japan did NOT indeed "build the South Korea of today".</p>

77

<p>Ok. i'm constantly getting ****ed that korea is getting neglected in this argument. Seriously korea gave Japan its culture not china. Remember tha Bakja really fostered Japan allowing it its first government the Yamato regime. It is no wonder that Japan's most treasured artifact, numbered by japan as the number one national cultural treasure, is a wooden carving of the sitting buddha which is done more sophisticated by Bakja using bronx. Also chinese and japanese are fundamentally different languages in terms of grammar and structure. Chinese is not one of the language in the Ural-Altai language group which includes turkish, mongol and korean. That is why it is much easier for a korean to learn japanese. In addition, if one examines carefully many japanese words r really similar to korean. japan in the old days used to pay ransom to Bakja, well not really ransom but some money to show respect and thank Bakja. So don't just say everything's from china. A lot of japanese culture was influenced by Bakja and Gugurio. NEVER NEGLECT THAT!</p>

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<p>UCLAri,</p>

<p>You digressed further and further. Imagine its the US/UK, not China, that holds large oil concession in Sudan, are you so sure US/UK wouldn't do what China did to protect their oil interest?</p>

<p><a href="http://www.twf.org/News/Y2004/0807-Darfur.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.twf.org/News/Y2004/0807-Darfur.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>
[quote]
In 1996, the U.S. sent nearly $20 million in surplus U.S. military equipment to Ethiopia, Eritrea and Uganda to topple the government of Sudan (The Washington Post, November 10, 1996), and it would appear that the U.S. and Britain are now competing with China, Sudan's largest trading partner, for Sudan's oil. </p>

<p>What Sudan, and Darfur in particular, need now are humanitarian assistance - not avarice masquerading as altruism.

[/quote]
</p>

<p><a href="http://www.africaspeaks.com/articles/2004/1911.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.africaspeaks.com/articles/2004/1911.html&lt;/a>
<a href="http://counterpunch.org/dixon08092004.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://counterpunch.org/dixon08092004.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Looks to me US/UK may be drooling over those oil also. The world politics are complex and full of dirty games played often by all powers. All powers, including the US, often put their national interests above pretty much everything. </p>

<p>It's the Chinese civilians that are most vocal about the issue of this thread. The government, aware of its dependence on Japanese aid, had long been very quiet. The Chinese civilians don't need your sympathy but I want to remind you most civilians know nothing about the oil deal and what their government does most of the time. I have problem with the Japanese government/right-wing politicians/military in WWII, not average Japanese, except those that support ring-wing agenda. </p>

<p>On the other hand, can you prove sanction solve problem? Look at Iraq.</p>

79

<p>imiracle911,</p>

<p>I'm not neglecting Korea, but let's be honest here...</p>

<p>China is the big daddy in Asia. Not Japan, not Korea. All roads lead to Beijing.</p>

80

<p>UCLAri, it is wonderful that you are so understanding and forgiving, and that you don't have the Germans for what they did to your family...but that does not mean that people who have not been able to deal with thier loss is less then you.
^^^and I know you never said that so don't quote me on it, but you sure do act like you are numero uno.</p>

<p>My grandfather fought in WWII, and has hated the Japanese ever since. I love him to death and I wish that he could learn to accept Japanese people more...but I understand why he thinks this way. Almost all of my friends are Japanese, and I am not racist towards Asians at all.</p>

<p>I think that all we can do is hope that with each generation the past is not forgotten, but forgiven. I wish that the OP could learn that you can't just group an entire race together and call them horrible people...but we all should try and understand why he might think that. </p>

<p>You speak of all the hate in the world, but getting down on someone for this kind of stuff is exactly the type of thing that brings hate into this world. I think that you made a lot of good points and I agreed with some of it, but you sound like an arrogant jack ass that considers himself above the rest of us...especially on topics involving Japan, because you live there. </p>

<p>Ok, go ahead and quote me...I know it's what you love. </p>

<p>and yeah yeah yeah...that last paragraph kind of contradicts what I said about needing less hate and more love in the world..but someone had to tell this guy to shut up.</p>