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</p>
<p>Not very unusual. For instance, this could happen if the academic rigor at a given HS was such one could get As without studying very much/hard and thus, failing to develop good study skills and work ethic needed to succeed in a respectable/elite college environment.</p>
<p>I don’t think he should transfer out of the school - yet (if ever).</p>
<p>Check on the option to take some time off (think gap year or more). That approach stops the clock on college and allows your son to relax, think, work, read, travel, develop study habits, find a new passion, etc. </p>
<p>There is no rush or time deadline on college completion. At some point, the ability to successfully complete his chosen major will emerge or develop. At that point he will be ready, relaxed and confidant to return to his Ivy. Whether he is 21 or 29 upon graduating doesn’t eventually matter.</p>
<p>
Cornell, Penn, and Columbia (the 3 largest ivy engineering schools by far) have separate admissions for engineering … so anyone getting into the engineering school was accepted in consideration of all other engineering applicants. Frankly, unless someone knows their admission was bases on a huge hook, I think the fear of being at the “bottom” of any top schools class is way overblown. In a world where schools could replace multiples of full classes with equally qualified candidates the idea of a low hanging tail of students is likely a misguided fear. There are some outliers on top and then a ton of reasonably even students.</p>
<p>My stats were probably in the 30th or 40th percent range at best and yes I had semesters in the low 2s. However that was not because I was not capable of good work … I also had a couple years of 3.7+ GPAs. The difference … my maturity and work ethic. My prep was not as strong as the average student at Cornell so I probably couldn’t have received 3.7s as a frosh but a 3.2 or 3.3 was certainly possible. In fact, of engineering students I knew who stayed on top of things and worked hard I can probably count on one hand the number whose overall GPA was below 2.7 or so.</p>
<p>I agree with the others that it makes no sense got a kid to bang his head against the wall for STEM classes when clearly he has an easy time in a humanities class. As far as his future it’s rather juvenile thinking to believe that the only path to a decent career is STEM.</p>
<p>
It would help to have the name of the school since different colleges withing the Ivy athletic league have different academic policies, but Ivy League colleges generally do not permanently dismiss the student upon the first failure to reach minimum GPA requirements. The usual order events is:</p>
<ol>
<li> Various warnings about having a lower GPA and meetings about strategies to improve</li>
<li> If unsatisfactory progress continues, a required leave of absence is often required for a period, typically 1 year.</li>
<li> After that leave of absence, the student is allowed to return upon showing that he has a plan to be successful. The vast majority are successful enough to graduate upon returning.</li>
</ol>
<p>Transcript policies differ by college. A required leave may or may not be mentioned on the transcript. The student may or may not be allowed to replace the lower grades on their transcript by repeating courses. You can find more specific detail on the college’s website.</p>
<p>I wonder what OP’s son would choose for a major if he concluded that he must choose something other than engineering. This Plan B would be well worth having in hand when talking to the probation officer.</p>
<p>I would not assume that engineering at any other university would be any easier than engineering at an Ivy. Engineering is not known for high grades, and the standard engineering courses are just plain hard for most students. </p>
<p>One question that your son should figure out is why he’s done so poorly – is his math background or science preparation inadequate? Did he not attend classes? Did he do all the problem sets? How did they go? What changed from his high school advanced classes?</p>
<p>Went to Cornell also and had many friends drop engineering. Also had many friends take 5, 6, and even 7 years to graduate. If your son can hang in there, he should try.</p>
<p>A couple of things about this account seem odd. First of all, the apparent demand that the OP’s son get a 3.5 GPA in another major in order to stay at the “Ivy” is very strange, and I question it. All majors have their own minimums and if he switches/redeclares, as long as his GPA does not fall below the university-wide cumulative cutoff for probation/dismissal (usually a 2.0 or 2.1), he cannot be “required” to get a 3.5 in any particular major any more than any other student. He may need to get at least a 2.1 or so overall, including his bad grades from previous semesters, so he’ll have to raise his performance in all classes (no matter what his major is) to accomplish that. But I don’t believe that a review committee can set some sort of arbitrary GPA bar for participation in any other major unless it’s necessary for the student to meet the graduation minimum requirement. A 3.5 would be a very high minimum GPA for any college major and would be a sign of rampant grade inflation. That’s a B+, which is supposed to mean “very good.” </p>
<p>Secondly, I have never heard the term “probation officer” used in any academic context. Advisor or dean, yes. But “probation officer?”</p>
<p>^^I agree with you Arabrab…the very good engineering programs in the midwest are all pretty much the same with regard to the basic curriculum path over four years and none of them are “easy” even for the very bright kids that get into the programs. Hopefully the poster’s son can have enough time to think of the “B” plan if allowed to continue. Supply Chain, packaging and engineering technology are often B paths in the midwest for kids who struggle with the EE, ChemE, ME etc. or just plain struggle with the basic first year or two core courses. My third just completed a successful first semester in engineering but you better believe he has a B plan as it just gets harder every semester. </p>
<p>If I were the OP I’d try to keep my kid at the Ivy, just as I would do everything to keep my kid at Michigan or any other extremely well regarded and well known college, but I think the OP’s son needs to find an alternative for engineering especially if the OP’s son’s colleges has a perimeter manufacturing or other industry related degree that he can successfully achieve.</p>
<p>I agree with the posters who have said the Ivy won’t want your son to fail. The school will want to help him figure out a way to be successful and graduate. The 3.5 GPA part sounds strange to me as well. </p>
<p>Does he want to stay there? Or has he had enough and wants a fresh start elsewhere? And if he wants to leave, why? Academics alone or a combination of that and social? How happy he is there would be important to know. </p>
<p>I also agree it sounds worthwhile to think about having your son take some time off and buttress his math/science knowledge. He could come back in a year more mature, more focused, and more knowledgeable. </p>
<p>Finally, I absolutely agree that this is just a bump in the road in his life. Maybe he volunteers for a year and takes cc classes. Maybe he switches majors and goes in a wholly new direction. Maybe he serves in the military and then comes back to school. Plenty of successful people take detours on their way to happiness.</p>
<p>NJSue, I’m with you. This doesn’t pass the smell test. ■■■■■?</p>
<p>This a very fishy thread, but I’ll throw in this chum:</p>
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</p>
<p>I have known three people hired by Google. One was an English major, one Sociology, and one Urban Studies. Dynamic companies hire people with a wide range of talents, skills, and interests.</p>
<p>I do think there must be some misunderstandings here. Also, the tunnel vision regarding college fields of study is odd for someone whose child is attending an Ivy. “Engineering or starvation” folks usually aren’t attracted to Ivy-caliber schools, including schools like MIT. There is usually more diversity of intellectual interests at these kinds of places.</p>
<p>Went to Cornell also and had many friends drop engineering. Also had many friends take 5, 6, and even 7 years to graduate. If your son can hang in there, he should try.</p>
<p>What are ivies’ policies on aid beyond 4 years? Will they keep throwing grants at the student year after year? And, if not, I don’t know many parents who’ll pay for 7 years at an ivy for an undergrad degree…that would cost about $400k if that happened today.</p>
<p>First of all, the apparent demand that the OP’s son get a 3.5 GPA in another major in order to stay at the “Ivy” is very strange, and I question it.</p>
<p>I dont think that req’t is for the major itself. I think that’s the req’t for a FAILING student to continue at the school (perhaps to still get aid) and be able to have an overall cum GPA that the school will accept.</p>
<p>If this kid has failing grades, then he needs lots of high grades to dilute the damage of those low grades.</p>
<p>Good point mom2collegekids. Highly selective need-blind/meets-need schools don’t let undergraduates hang around for 7 years. They have maximum-semester limits and require full-time enrollment.</p>
<p>If it’s an Ivy, aid wouldn’t be contingent on GPA because it’s need-based, not merit based. Right? I don’t know about Cornell.</p>
<p>* I think the fear of being at the “bottom” of any top schools class is way overblown. I*</p>
<p>I don’t necessarily agree. That may be so if the student is in a mostly “right brained major”, then fine. Who cares if the theater or sculpting talent has lowish stats for the school. Those folks have talents that the left-brain people can’t touch. </p>
<p>however, for eng’g majors, I think it’s a mistake to accept a 10% student unless the Math grades and test scores are high, and the other grades/scores are lower because English isn’t the primary language.</p>
<p>OP…</p>
<p>Can you tell us what your child is strong or at least “good” in?..and he likes???</p>
<p>Math?</p>
<p>Physics?</p>
<p>History?</p>
<p>Poly Sci?</p>
<p>Econ? </p>
<p>English?</p>
<p>foreign languages?</p>
<p>Bio or Chem?</p>
<p>I don’t necessarily think it’s a ■■■■■ but I think are are a few misunderstandings based on the OPs clunky description and thought process. </p>
<p>Probation officer has got to be the OPs term, like others, I’ve never heard it. The 3.5GPA requirement seems awfully high. I’m wondering if the GPA requirement is lower but the OPs son needs to earn a 3.5 to get his GPA to the required average(?). </p>
<p>Like others I also think the OP is very misguided in thinking engineering is going to be easier elsewhere. Engineering programs are ABET accredited to make sure there is consistency. What you’ll find in schools with less competitive admissions is greater weeding in the early years. More kids may get through the door, but you still have to take differential equations. </p>
<p>Lastly, again agreeing with others, the thought that there’s any single area of study to be employable and successful is just ridiculous. A student will do well, and be successful, studying something they are good at. If you’re trying, going to office hours, and you’re still not doing well it’s time to consider something else (minus illness or learning difficulties). Just ‘not doing well on tests’ doesn’t cut it. If the OPs son has the opportunity to try again at their current school choosing another major is going to be key.</p>
<p>Oh also, plenty of kids move from community colleges to four year universities. It’s quite common. Four year universities love CC transfers because they have a proven record of success, usually two years of history. The idea that they can’t transfer is again misguided.</p>
<p>I’m such a slow typer. :o crossed posts with M2CK last several posts</p>