Academies are urged to change course

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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<p>Focus more on foreign language, culture, expert says</p>

<p>Published in the BS:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/annearundel/bal-ar.curriculum02feb02,1,2218221.story%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/annearundel/bal-ar.curriculum02feb02,1,2218221.story&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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[quote]
A former Army officer and Middle East analyst has called on the nation's service academies to trade in their focus on engineering for a more modern curriculum on international relations. </p>

<p>Andrew Exum, who led combat units in two tours in Afghanistan and one tour in Iraq, said the engineering coursework required at the U.S. Naval Academy and U.S. Military Academy in West Point, N.Y., is a holdover from the 19th century, when that was the direction of future warfare....

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<p>Instead of "trading in" what has worked for so long, why not SUPPLEMENT it?</p>

<p>I hope they do so. It's part of continuous improvement which, as any process-control person can tell you, is REQUIRED for a system not to stagnate. I just hope the "improvement" isn't a load of PC crap that will tie their hands and confuse them rather than really prepare them.</p>

<p>I continue to think the curriculum should be extended to five years. The more I see and hear, the more I'm convinced.</p>

<p>And just as a side thought: What about all the officers that DON'T come from USNA, USMA, etc.?</p>

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<p>And what about the majority of the officers that will go submarines, surface, or aviation who will never see a tech manual written in Arabic? DLI has very good immersion language programs which teach culture as well. Marines and Naval Officers could be sent on an as needed basis. The army is probably different, but for the Navy I would think this type of training is, by far, the exception rather than the rule. Another "expert", I think, who doesn't know of which he is speaking.</p>

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<p>Are you saying Z, that you'd like to see FIVE years by the bay?</p>

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<p>I'm thinking it should be seriously considered. No joke. The details would have to be debated and worked out, and perhaps there is a better alternative, but if you think of everything they cram down the throat of the average Mid, and now they're saying they need to add to it...... well, I can't think of another solution offhand.</p>

<p>Don't think it would make many Mids happy, of course! ;)</p>

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<p>Five years is not practical. Last year the Supe stated that the academy is looking at the possibility of bringing back Saturday classes to add courses to the curriculum. Making adjustments to the curriculum is a balancing act that has to be looked at carefully.</p>

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<p>No argument, although I think Saturday classes would be received with even more ire. ;)</p>

<p>Still, IF (and it's a big IF) what the author of the article says is true with regards to the need to expand the preparations afforded to Mids (and setting aside USNA69's valid point on the applicability of the training), then either the training schedule has to be expanded or the existing curriculum has to be trimmed.</p>

<p>Now, I may come across as a bit of a barbarian because of this, but I figure that USxA trains people to be military officers, not philosophers. All the BS English, poetry, and literature classes are a waste of time, as I have yet to hear anyone recite Macbeth while on watch. Teach them how to WRITE. Teach them analytical skills by teaching them classes where real-world situations (both present and historical) are discussed and disected. Teach them tactics. Teach them leadership (which is difficult, because nothing teaches leadership better or faster than being a leader). Teach them the technical information they need to manage today's incredibly complex weapon and information systems. Teach them the tools to find better and more efficient ways to do things (Lean, Six Sigma, Statistical Analysis, etc.). Teach them languages they won't learn offhand. Stop wasting time teaching them about diversity and respect and all the other crap that only needs to be told to them once, in a handout, and then dropped. Etc., etc., etc.</p>

<p>This is a topic that can make for one hell of a fascinating discussion. I just hope that the Powers that Be are having it somewhere and coming up with the right answers. I'd love to be a fly on the wall........ with a bullhorn. :D</p>

<p>ETA: Oh one more bombshell: Want to teach them real leadership? DROP THE PLEBE SYSTEM. It teaches all kinds of WRONG methods. If you want the incoming class to really go through a crucible, call up some Marine DI's from Quantico and ship them up to USNA to do it right. Make those first 10 weeks or so as hellish as possible. Make it a mini BUDS, for heaven's sake, and then DROP THE ABUSE. Sure, they can still be required to not walk through certain doors and such, and even know rates, but the mindless screaming by other Mids does nothing to teach them how to lead a wayward Plebe.</p>

<p>I now stand prepared to be flamed by my fellow Alumni. :D</p>

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<p>One must follow before he can lead. Abuse is a different matter, but the chain of command is an important principle.</p>

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<p>Absolutely true. However, one does not need to be yelled at and humiliated for an entire year in order to learn to follow. That can be done in a shorter timespan and far more effectively without teaching the upperclassmen poor leadership habits.</p>

<p>Our troops go through boot camp and learn to follow in 10 weeks or so. Why do we treat our future officers as if they can't learn the lesson unless it's driven home over ten MONTHS?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
All the BS English, poetry, and literature classes are a waste of time, as I have yet to hear anyone recite Macbeth while on watch.

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<p>I think it has something to do with making people officers and gentlemen. :) Seriously, I never liked the classics either and I was a bull major. That said, I do think there is value in studying history as well as some poly sci and even a econ course or two. IMHO, one of the unfortunate realities (and I recognize it as such) is that mids by virtue of all the classes they MUST take have precious little opportuntity to take classes they might WANT to take.</p>

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Teach them how to WRITE.

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<p>This is something that, in my day, did not occur. You either entered USNA knowing how to write (and hopefully didn't unlearn it during your 4-yr tenure) or you didn't and weren't about to learn it there. Kids coming to USNA should know how to write, but too many don't. And it's a skill every single officer needs. </p>

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Teach them leadership (which is difficult, because nothing teaches leadership better or faster than being a leader).

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<p>Truer words never spoken. I would like to see more emphasis on ensuring every mid (not just the stripers) gets real leadership opportunities. It's my understanding that the current Supe has instituted this requirement for firsties. However, it would be even better to learn it earlier, so you have multiple chances to screw up and get it right before you have to lead as an officer.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Oh one more bombshell: Want to teach them real leadership? DROP THE PLEBE SYSTEM. It teaches all kinds of WRONG methods. If you want the incoming class to really go through a crucible, call up some Marine DI's from Quantico and ship them up to USNA to do it right.

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<p>Gotta think about this one. IMO, one of the things that is so -- critical?, important? -- about plebe year is its length, as compared to AOCS. I'm not a fan of ongoing "abuse." However, at least in my day, much of the yelling, etc. ended after the first or second set of grades in the fall and, after that point, it was merely a grind. But I learned a lot from that grind; it is in some ways what bonds grads. Nonetheless, your proposal is intriguing.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I think it has something to do with making people officers and gentlemen.

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I dunno. We spent so much time cleaning our rooms that the running joke was that we were being prepared to be Officers and Janitors. </p>

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However, it would be even better to learn it earlier, so you have multiple chances to screw up and get it right before you have to lead as an officer.

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AaaaaaaaaaaMEN! I learned a harsh and yet still gentle lesson as a Mid that I'm eternally grateful I DIDN'T learn as an Ensign!</p>

<p>
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IMO, one of the things that is so -- critical?, important? -- about plebe year is its length, as compared to AOCS. </p>

<p><snip></snip></p>

<p>But I learned a lot from that grind; it is in some ways what bonds grads.

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Indeed. You mention the ONE mitigating factor that is the wrench thrown into my idea.</p>

<p>A fascinating problem to unravel, to be sure. :)</p>

<p>ETA: Another idea to ponder is the possibility of teaching Mids to act under stress by putting them in actual command-decision situations and stressing them. I understand that the new generation of ship simulators installed in the Yard are so realistic that people actually get seasick. Use that technology to stress the hell out of them, making them pay for failure with loss of privleges or some such. No different than the Plebe System, really, and at least it simulates ACTUAL fleet conditions. Just a thought.</p>

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<p>I was thinking the same thing. Why not send them to bootcamp for the first summer? Navy one first , then the Marine one. Eight weeks, then 12 weeks. Impossible to fit in one summer but it would be cool to know that they'd been through twhat those they will someday lead went through. OR like Z said, bring in the DIs and make the summer a real party. Trained, experienced Marine DIs and Navy Chiefs really understand the psychology of "break 'em down to build 'em up". No disrespect to the fine cadre leaders intended. Just brainstorming (or brain-tooting!) here.</p>

<p>Do you think the upperclass would be cheated out of an important leadership opportunity if plebe summer/the plebe system went away?</p>

<p>Navy <a href="http://www.nstc.navy.mil/rtcgl/recruits/index.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.nstc.navy.mil/rtcgl/recruits/index.html&lt;/a>
Marine <a href="http://www.mcrdsd.usmc.mil/RTR/trainingDS.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.mcrdsd.usmc.mil/RTR/trainingDS.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

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<p>
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I learned a harsh and yet still gentle lesson as a Mid that I'm eternally grateful I DIDN'T learn as an Ensign!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Unfortunately, I had the opposite experience of learning a harsh lesson in leadership as an Ensign. However, as with so many things in life, I learned more from that failure than I would have from equivalent success. Just wish it had occurred sooner and that I'd been "forced" to/given the opportunity to lead at USNA. </p>

<p>In my day (not saying it's that way today), you could get through 4 yrs at USNA and never lead anyone in anything. The same mids were selected as stripers (mid leaders) year after year, a larger group did plebe summer and/or NAPS. But, the rest of us just drifted through and got to figure it out as a junior officer in our first command -- with varying degrees of success. For this reason, I was thrilled to hear things had changed/are changing in this regard.</p>

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<p>It was very similar in my day, too. You could coast the last three years and hardly learn anything.</p>

<p>I think one of the most brilliant things they ever did was assign senior enlited personnel as reps to the battalions. I knew one of the first Senior Chiefs sent, and I knew that if that was the kind of person they were sending, the Mids were going to get one hell of an education.</p>

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<p>I somewhat agree with dropping the mid/fourth class/whatever WP calls it. I might be biased because I am a freshman, though. I see a lot of problems with the leadership style it fosters. The best way I've heard it was, "We should have a Four class system, NOT a FourTH class system!" It seems like it's generally the freshmen vs. upperclassmen, rather that a unit mentality.</p>

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<p>Plebe year is not about boot camp. Plebes are not guinea pigs for leadership labs for the upper class. Plebe year is about learning how to follow. It is about learning where one's place is in the hierarcy of things. It is about the chain of command. It is learning loyalty and teamwork through adversity. Even though I was a part of the last class to have a real plebe year and was in one of the most hard core companies, I would not trade the experience and the lessons learned for anything.</p>

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<p>All true. Believe me, it's not so much the Plebes I'm worried about. It's the upperclassmen. I just don't think the Plebe System teaches them how to lead well.</p>

<p>Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's worth the debate.</p>

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<p>Didn't I read somewhere that WP has in the last few years tweaked the system somewhat? Something like a plebe = a jr. enlisted, 3rd class= like an E4, 2nd class=sr. enlisted, 1st class = jr. officer? I mean as far as leadership responsibilities within the brigade. Plebes are followers, 3rd classes mentor one or two, etc.</p>

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<p>Hmmm.... lots of issues on the table.
Spidermom- The system you describe at WP sounds strikingly similar to the academy. 4/c are plebes, similar to the junior enlisted. 3/c are the mentors for the plebes. They help them get through the year. they hold postions like training cpl. 2/c are your trainers. They hold positions like training sgt, 1st Sgt, Admin Chief. Firsties are your JOs, and get put into the direct leadership positions. </p>

<p>Zaph-
You brought up the idea of eliminating plebe year. Maybe send in some DIs from quantico to give them a swift kick in the butt, but you also complained that mids did not get good hands on leadership experience. One of my best experiences in the past 4 years had been plebe summer cadre, followed closely by summer seminar squad leader. About half the class is involved in leadership positions throughout plebe summer. Those who do not do plebe summer take leadership positions on summer cruises. For example, on YPs and CSNTS, most boats are entirely mid run. In fact, many do not even have an officer on board. They call this place a "leadership laboratory." Many people agree or disagree with this statement. It has been my exerience the opportunities for anyone to learn leadership are out there, and all you need to grow in your ability to lead is a desire to develop yourself. Throughout the 4 years you will be given numerous opportunities to lead, and whether or not you take advantage of them is entirely your choice. Depriving mids of leadership opportunities such as cadre is only having an adverse effect on midhsipmen's development.</p>

<p>-I guess I am such a big propenant of the current system because I have felt that it was beneficial to me. My year spent as a lowely plebe taught me an immeasurable amount about leadership. Throughout both the summer and the Academic year I saw examples of leadership every single day. Some were good, and some were bad. But the perspective of an entire year in a wholly subservient position showed me the leader that I would hope to become. It also showed me what I did not want to do as a leader.</p>

<p>-As to the original issue concerning a possible shift from technical to non-technical....
Whatever your job in the Navy will be as an officer, you will be given the proper training to fulfill that job. That is true whether your an aero major from the academy or an exercise major at some random ROTC school. If you go subs, you need to get through power school first.... Aviation, you have flight school. It seems to me that there should be a greater emphasis on the humanities. As a leader, humanities classes develop to a greater extent the junior officer's communication and general social skills which are invaluable when leadeing others. Furthermore, are actions, even aboard ship or subs, can effect people of other cultures. Having the cultural awareness to realize the implications of your actions can be valuable as well.</p>

<p>-Btw, did anyone hear that the red cross is now the red crystal? Its looking like PC has gone to an entirely new level</p>

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<p>Oh, Puh-leaaase! I'm a Red Cross volunteer. Now I have to be a red crystal volunteer?</p>