I’m a parent and first of all, I realize you weren’t trying to insult anyone with the holding pen comment. I can totally understand your frustration because I have a daughter that knows she wants business and I would also feel insecure about her starting a program with the possibility of not getting into the school that she wants. Engineering, in particular, is the type of program you really need to know from the beginning so that you can graduate on time, or at least close to it. Without having read all of these posts, I’m not sure I would feel comfortable sending my child to a school that may or may not let them major in what they want to major in!
With that said, it sounds like you have received some reassuring advice from the very informative people on this thread that makes me believe your son will be able to easily transfer to Engineering. However, if it were me, I would call Clark admissions directly and discuss all of this with them, find out if there are exact grades he needs to get, etc. so that he really knows the exact requirements to transfer. On top of that, I would find out if being in honors is necessary in order to transfer in. He might be better off NOT being in honors so he can really focus on getting the grades he needs to transfer into Clark. My daughter also got honors (and direct admit to business school) so I poked around the honors website and it does sound great, but sounds like it might be extra work and maybe he doesn’t need the distraction freshman year if he is trying to get the grades he needs for Clark.
Good luck and I empathize with your situation. Sounds like your son is brilliant and will do just fine and become an Engineer in the end!
This is by design. There is no valid reason decisions that have nothing in common other than being part of the same university, should be cleared by some central authority. That would really make no sense.
Clark has their own ways of doing things. Did your son not take the SAT? That might have hurt. If they considered the SAT2, then that might have been a concern also since (if I remember correctly) an 800 on the SAT2 MATH2 is only in the mid 80 percentile so it might have been expected/preferred.
As others have stated, it’s not a locked door. They want to see proof of ability/drive before they are willing to make the considerable investment that they make in each engineering student.
Honors is the only path to the BK and to Honors seminars/classes. It is not a requirement one way or the other, to any academic program (other than those integrated into the Honors program). As for any concern about time commitments, that’s what University Honors is for. That choice gives you all the benefits of being in Honors, without the extra work. Several of my favorite classes while at Maryland were Honors seminars.
I disagree. There’s little time commitment, and it’s worth it to be surrounded by other “smart” kids/get on the Honors listserv/get all of the extra opportunities (luncheons with professors, ice cream socials, and other networking eventsto name a few).
My daughter is in the honors college. Some students love it, while others think it’s just ok. There are some perks to it for sure like @Vctory pointed out. My daughter is one that finds it to be just ok. She didn’t enjoy living in her honors dorm, and she would’ve preferred not to have to take the required honors seminars. Having said that, she did have a couple very interesting seminars that in retrospect she was glad she took. She also liked being able to include the honors college on her resume.
In the long run being accepted to your departmental honors program will benefit you more. When you hear about students graduating cum laude, that is departmental honors, not the honors college. Being accepted to the honors college is based on what you did in high school, being accepted in departmental honors is based on what you’ve accomplished in college. Employers are concerned about your college career, not high school. Every school at UMD is different about the requirements needed for departmental honors, so check the appropriate website for more info.
For those that were invited to the honors college, congratulations and you should be extremely proud! This is no small accomplishment. But for those that weren’t, it will not hurt you going forward. If you work hard and get fantastic grades, you will stand out, even at a large school like UMD.
Before contacting Clark, I will wait to hear from my son’s college counselor to find out what she has to say. He took the ACT and scored 35 on the math section (32 composite). He also took the Physics SAT 2 and got 780. And all scores, including AP scores, were sent to MD for consideration.
Maybe they didn’t like his essay, or what one of his teachers wrote in his/her recommendation. I am sure we will never find out.
As there’s already so much pressure placed on freshmen to adjust to college, I worry about the added pressure of having to earn B’s or better in “gateway” courses required to transfer into Clark. But I think being surrounded by other likeminded students in the Honors program can only have a positive effect on him, motivating him to excel.
Most likely he will be going elsewhere. He probably would do much better in an environment where intro courses are much smaller and he would have an opportunity to interact with professors on a much more personal level. Back to the waiting game.
."I worry about the added pressure of having to earn B’s or better in “gateway” courses required to transfer into Clark "
Actually, if your son has trouble getting a B in the gateway courses, to be fair, he honestly needs to evaluate whether engineering is the right major for him. Those are the “easiest” courses in the engineering curriculum because they are the broadest, basic foundation courses. Understand that engineering gets progressively harder. If you are concerned about that pressure…take a look at the classes for the 4 year plan of the discipline that your son is interested in.http://www.gened.umd.edu/for-students/forstudents-4yearplans-engr.php (scroll to second page - it’s easier to see what the classes are) As people often say, “engineering is no joke.”
As for intro classes being large, yes, the lecture sessions are large, but they are broken down into small discussion sections every week with around 15 (maybe 20 at most) students per discussion section that give students the opportunity to get the personalized attention. Professors also make themselves very available during office hours for those students willing to make the effort to ask for help.
We just went over the requirements to transfer in, and it looks like he will only have to take Chemistry as he took AP Calculus BC and AP Physics last year and scored 5s on all exams. He is currently taking AP Bio, which in hindsight, probably was a mistake, and instead should be taking AP Chem. To transfer in, he would need at least a C- in Chem, which, I agree, should be easily earned. If not, then it was a good decision to keep him out of Engineering. The subject matter would not be the issue, but the distractions around him might be.
Thank you @maryversity and everyone else for the resources and advice that you have provided here. You have all been beyond helpful and I am greatly appreciative. As you can understand, this is very frustrating for me. I am still baffled by the fact that UMD has recognized me as one of the upper echelon freshman admits, but won’t directly admit me to my first choice major. I have read into the honors program and it sounds like it has a lot of great things to offer. Similarly, my research of the transfer process into LEPs has illuminated that it seems pretty straightforward, for engineering at least. However, this ultimately is a deal-breaker for me. As much as I like UMD, I don’t like it enough to turn down direct admissions into the engineering programs at several other universities of similar caliber. Doesn’t seem like the logical thing to do. Thanks again, everyone. Best of luck to your son @frannie465.
@pacollegekid97, since you are in Honors, the logical thing to do is wait to see what comes in the way of $$ offers. For undergrad, $$ should carry a lot of weight. This gives you freedom for future decisions about possible professional or graduate school.
@frannie465 I hope you count your blessings because my son would trade places with yours in a heartbeat. He had ACT 36 Math and Science (35 composite), SAT2 Math 780, took 11 AP classes (some good, some bad scores), had strong ECs and 4.26 weighted GPA – and he got direct admit to Clark, but did not get into Honors which he really wanted. Your son is able to compete for BK and other merit $$ and will more than likely be able to transfer into Clark, whereas my son can’t compete for most of the merit $$ except those specific to Clark and it is incredibly hard to transfer into the Honors College. It’s disappointing, but has done nothing to dampen his enthusiasm toward becoming a TERP!
afterp89, you have to wonder what goes into some of these decisions! Your son clearly deserves to be in Honors. Is he planning to appeal? I know someone whose daughter did not get into Scholars or Honors last year, appealed, got her in Scholars, and she wound up going somewhere else. l
@frannie465 and @pacollegekid97 I don’t blame you guys for considering other schools, even though it sounds like your son/you would have no problem getting into the Engineering school in the end. I’m really surprised @frannie465 that based on the fact that your son took BC Calc and AP Physics and got 5’s that he wasn’t admitted, but then of course so are you. I am wondering if the lack of AP Chem is actually the reason he didn’t get in…it might just be a check mark they want their direct admits to have, which I guess is understandable given the prestige of the program and the amount of applicants they must receive. Large schools understandingly have to have certain guidelines, and maybe they just want that course done ahead of time??? Maybe not but that seems to be the biggest clue you have. Or it could simply come down to numbers…too many strong applicants for not enough spots.
My son is also in the same situation and it does sound like it will be relatively easy to transfer to engineering for his spring semester. I have 2 questions:
Can non majors enroll in the freshman engineering survey class? Is this class offered in the spring? Do transfers skip this class?
How helpful is Project Lead the Way? My son, like others, has a high GPA, 5's on APs, great ECs, plus will complete PLTW this year. I was under the impression PLTW helped with admissions to college engineering programs but so far it doesn't seem to have done the trick... Son #2 is currently in the program, is enjoying it, but I don't know if I should keep him in it. Would it be better for my younger son to take other classes rather than spend time on PLTW?
If you get dough from being in the Honors College, or at least have a lot better access to scholarship programs, and you get access to better classes and extra programs, and you can switch to Engineering as soon as you are able and will not lose a year, WHY is anyone upset?
As for why students didn’t get into engineering, some thoughts (could be totally off-base, but…):
Engineering ECs?
Strong science ECs (not just science club)?
Any research experience?
Any project experience (in or out of HS)?
I agree with post #31, sounds like Honors College and no Clark for now is easier than the alternative. If they made you take no courses that could transfer directly to Clark, that would be different.
Also sounds like appealing not getting into the Honors College is worth a student’s time, if there is no downside.
It is possible that the process for getting into the Honors College and Clark are TOTALLY different, as in decided by different people/committees, and the adcom scratches their head about the inconsistent decisions as much as you guys do.
Honors decisions are probably made using a more holistic approach, and Engineering decision is likely looking for more specific demonstrated interest in Engineering type activities, as you mention in your post.
My son is in the same boat. He applied to Computer Engineering in Clarks School of Engineering but was accepeted to Letters and Science in Scholars program.
He put Copmuter Science as alternate major. Is it possible to transfer to CS major in the College of CMNS
@maryversity, is there a specific process to follow to appeal to the Honors program? D is in a similar situation but is a direct admit to Smith. She wanted to apply to ACES but now it’s not an option.
@collegemomjam: I don’t think it’s the lack of AP Chem unless Clark has flip-flopped recently, because the thing that used to irk engineering admits in the past was that they got no credit for AP Chem but were required instead to take a 100-level Chem class (“Chem for Engineers”, which was roughly the same as AP Chem) regardless of their AP Chem score if any. At the same time, physics and math majors were given credit for AP Chem, and a Chem class wasn’t required of them if they hadn’t taken AP Chem. In other words, for UMd freshmen, AP Chem was worth it only if they truly loved Chem and/or planned on majoring in it.