<p>But remember class ranks beats everything in the application. Shark_bite said it and it has been proven by some book I read from a Harvard admissions officer.</p>
<p>hey, is 9 out of 100 really bad (i go to an extremely competitive private school)</p>
<p>thats good... I have a nasty, nasty class rank.</p>
<p>damnn i missed the whole flaming discussion thing...</p>
<p>i just want to add that nspeds completely decimated you dha, so much so that you had to resort to, "oh yeah? well i bet you cant get a gf!!"</p>
<p>that was pretty sad.</p>
<p>i do like you though :D</p>
<p>Guys...no more fighting please:(</p>
<p>"But remember class ranks beats everything in the application. Shark_bite said it and it has been proven by some book I read from a Harvard admissions officer."</p>
<p>As as longtime alum interviewer who has talked directly with Harfvard admissions officers and their director of admissions, I beg to differ. Harvard does not go by those kind of numbers. I'd bet $ that if a person was, for instance, an internationally famous celebrity or was the #1 national athlete in their sport, was the top person in Intel or had an extremely challenging upbringing such as having been homeless for an extended period, those factors would be viewed with far more weight than their class rank. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, it's silly to keep asking people here questions designe dto find out if you will be accepted. No one here is an adcom. When one keeps asking uninformed people for odds it just makes it seem as if you lack the critical thinking skills to be Harvard material.</p>
<p>In general, too, Harvard people are independent thinkers who make their decisions without having to need their hands held or needing lots of reassurance. </p>
<p>I always think that the applicants with the best chances of getting into Harvard are the ones who don't spend their free time asking others to read tea leaves for them. The best applicants are pursuing their intellectual and extracurricular passions, and their passions involve far more than getting into Harvard.</p>
<p>Rank is helpful when you have a poor gpa.</p>
<p>"Rank is helpful when you have a poor gpa."</p>
<p>Students who really do have poor gpas are very, very unlikely to get into Harvard. Their odds are far less than the normal 1:10 odds.</p>
<p>For instance, if one is valedictorian with a 3.1 at a crappy school where few bother to go to college, then the class rank isn't going to mean that one has a great chance of getting into Harvard even if one is poor and has faced other challenges.</p>
<p>students can have a 3.7 and still be val if the school is competitive. I am top 2% in a class of 450 and I have 12 AP courses. So yeah, I think it should be in the context of the school.</p>
<p>And..</p>
<p>I wouldnt base chances just on GPA. The SAT and AP scores also plays a major role. ECs are important too. So, GPA isnt everything.</p>
<p>I don't consider a 3.7 to be a bad gpa. True that most Harvard applicants probably have higher gpas, but a 3.7 would not rule out a Harvard admission.</p>
<p>I agree, NSM. I go to a pretty average middle-America school, work full-time, am considered low income, and I'm still able to maintain a 4.0 and a rank of 1/184. --- And, I've missed 50% of school this year due to serious medical issues... You'd have to have really, really terrible circumstances before places like HYPS would understand your 3.1 G.P.A.</p>
<p>I agree with Northstarmom. The situation I am in is that I go to a really competitive public school (100% go to four-year colleges). In addition, most of the kids there are pretty well off, and therefore can afford to obtain tutors and things of that nature for their classes. Therefore, for someone in my situation (I actually was homeless several times), it gets tough to try and do well when you are the only minority in most of your AP classes and your teachers have already a set favoritism and bias towards the students (Socioeconomic discrimination is very prevalent here). </p>
<p>I believe that if a student is able to demonstrate competent test scores (AP and SAT) then it is not fair to be judged in the context that "he is bright, but lazy." I only agree with that statement for the other 90% of the applicant pool. Some of us have to cram many things into the day (for example, I have been typing so many essays due next week for the midterm/final grades while occasionally dropping by CC as recreation, and had to beg my boss to give me this weekend off), such as jobs, personal family responsibilities, and concern whether we will have money to purchase food for next week. Therefore, I don't it is fair to downplay test scores (which level the playing field) and put more importance on grades.</p>
<p>When your school drills busy works incessantly out of you, while you are at the same time trying to put food on the table, it becomes really difficult to get perfect As, specially in a school where out of 30 AP English Students last year, only 4 got As (all upper-middle class who had time to sit in their cozy $500,000 homes and type their essays), and the work you present isn't good enough (Ironic, because your Harvard literature professor this summer lauded your ability).</p>
<p>I guess what I am trying to say is that SATs and APs give people like me the opportunity to demonstrate our academic ability on a neutral ground. Without having to go through biased teachers, an administration that doesn't like you, and stuck-up snobby schoolmates. </p>
<p>When I look back now, I know that if I would have gone to my homeschool, I would have been Val (since most of those kids are concerned where to get their next high than turning in work). However, I chose a real challenge, a place where my abilities would flourish to some extent. Unfortunately though, now I have come to realize that it isnt so. Harvard (and all the others), in most cases will take someone (other things equal) with a modest SAT score and high GPA over the vice versa. Even though that high GPA was obtained at a mediocre school, where if you bother to do the work, then you get an A.</p>
<p>"You'd have to have really, really terrible circumstances before places like HYPS would understand your 3.1 G.P.A."</p>
<p>If you do though, I seriously hope they do consider your 3.1 GPA (Horridly close to my UW).</p>
<p>lol, i dont have a 3.1 . I have an average uw gpa, and a decent weighted gpa.</p>
<p>"Harvard (and all the others), in most cases will take someone (other things equal) with a modest SAT score and high GPA over the vice versa. Even though that high GPA was obtained at a mediocre school, where if you bother to do the work, then you get an A."</p>
<p>DHA, i believe that your last statement is false. My gpa is much better than my test scores simply because i am a bad test taker. But i worked my a** off to get a good gpa at an extremely competitive school. Granted, my family is upper class (meaning that i didn't work, but i didn't have tutors either). I admire your intense work ethic and your test scores (which i assume are stellar). But you cannot discredit a person's gpa because they did worse on their AP's or SATs.</p>
<p>I am not discriminating against a person whose grades are higher than test scores; I am looking at it hollistically.</p>
<p>You guys fail to realize that you are way above the average Harvard applicant in terms of academics, ECs, etc. Even the notion of finding a site like this and obtaining so much info (I have gotten so much info from this place) demonstrates that you are so much better than the average applicant (acknowledge, I am generalizing). The average harvard applicant is a typical val/sal in a suburban high school. Their test scores are good, however, their ECs and the rigor of their school isnt that great (an average US public high school sends half of its kids to 4 year colleges I believe). Therefore, it is easier for these people to get good grades rather than going to a super difficult private or magnet school. </p>
<p>I understand that you are a bad test taker. However, how are you going to deal with this when you are taking college exams? Your professor isnt going to exempt you because you turn in your homework regularly and hand in well-written papers.</p>
<p>I guess what I am trying to say is that it is not fair that an A in AP Biology with a 3/4 on the exam is seen more favorably than a B in AP Biology with a 5 on the exam</p>
<p>especially for kids like me who sometimes cannot do all the stupid little homework assignments, but know the material throughroughly well (I did well in AP Bio; this is just an example).</p>
<p>I take tests and exams at school with no problem. It is just being in the atmosphere of a standardized test room that causes me a lot of anxiety.</p>
<p>Same here and I am soo slow on those tests...second guessing myself.</p>