<p>I have heard from several people in the past about getting a degree in acting and not in musical theatre. They told me that an acting degree is more of a real degree then a musical theatre degree. Is that true and does it really matter?</p>
<p>I know a lot of people who feel like acting is the more serious and "real" degree...but I don't really agree with that. It depends on what YOU really want to go into. If you want to do MT more than anything else (not focus on acting a lot of the time) than do that. But if you think that you will probably end up straight acting most of your professional career, then my suggestion would be to find an acting school that allows you enough time for voice lessions and dance. </p>
<p>Most people will probably completly disagree with me, but I am just saying what I have heard.</p>
<p>I'm with CKP. It just depends on what you want to do. You probably won't get actor training that will adequately prepare you to perform Shakespeare, Chekhov, Ibsen, etc. at an advanced level in most MT programs save CMU and possibly some others without following up your degree with an MFA in Acting. On the other hand, if you're not already a fairly advanced singer/dancer, you probably won't get enough music and dance at most straight acting schools to be competitive in MT. You just need to evaluate where you're at in each area and go from there if you want the best of both worlds.</p>
<p>At BoCo we have wonderful acting training and Musical trainiing. So I think that it is mostly a rumor that says you won't be trained adequately for acting at a MT school</p>
<p>That line of reasoning falls right in there with the classically trained opera people who feel opera occupies a higher status than MT and the dance folks who believe modern or ballet are inherently superior artforms to MT or jazz & tap. </p>
<p>In several programs I am aware of, the MT BFA students take every acting course the Acting BFA students take. Maybe you could look for that sort of program when you are selecting schools to audition for. I guess it is obvious from my opening paragraph that I am repulsed by what I would call intellectual elitism. An artist should be open to the world - and open to a host of experiences - and value and respect all artforms.</p>
<p>Acting for the musical calls on the same skill set as acting for dramatic theatre. Some argue the "truth" of a scene is compromised in MT - true enough for some early shows (but not so different from time-honored dramatic forms of melodrama and pantomine) - and other MT pieces, when presented properly, are as compelling and as truthful as any dramatic piece - and still others are simple comic and intended as such - and comedy is comedy in a straight show or a musical.</p>
<p>Very often folks confuse honest acting for the size of the venue it is presented in - yes, an intimate 100-seat theatre calls for more honest acting (from a MT or a dramatic piece). However, if you are doing Shakespeare, Moliere, or Beckett in a 1000-seat ampitheatre - you had best project and you necessarily need to become more presentational. Remember the old philosophy question - if a tree falls in the woods and no one witnesses it - does it make a noise? -- well, if an actor emotes on a stage - and no sees or hears it, it it make a impact - NO.</p>
<p>Now, having said that - there is a difference in acting for the camera (TV or Film) and acting for the stage - that is another discussion.</p>
<p>So, specifically, if acting is your only talent - then get a degree in acting (and you wouldn't even get into most MT programs) - however, if you can also sing and dance - probably you should hone all your talents in a MT program. There will be more opportunities available to you (assuming you are a good actor) - you can audition for straight shows, musicals, and even dancing "Gap" commercials - if you are truly a triple threat talent.</p>
<p>I defintiely agree with what all of you are saying. Thanks for your imput. I'd like to do a musical theatre degree because I could improve on my dancing. I'm the strongest at singing then acting then dance.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Acting for the musical calls on the same skill set as acting for dramatic theatre.
[/quote]
No it doesn't. I don't have time to post a thesis right now, but ActingAlligator and Prof Himmelheber have already pretty well covered this on the Arizona forum here and here. Obviously, there are some schools where MT majors take almost exactly the same acting classes as the acting majors. I've already mentioned CMU and I believe it's the same at Otterbein, Webster, Arizona and maybe a few more. The question here becomes "Where's the beef?" Where are the CCM, UMich, CAP21, BoCo ... MT grads who didn't follow up their degree with an MFA in Acting performing classical repertoire in the major regional theatres? As I've stated repeatedly on some different threads, the overwhelming majority of those performing in those venues either have an MFA in Acting or come from a select few upper tier undergraduate conservatories. At which major opera companies do those grads perform? Which major ballet companies? It's not intellectual elitism. It's simple fact.
[quote]
So, specifically, if acting is your only talent - then get a degree in acting (and you wouldn't even get into most MT programs) - however, if you can also sing and dance - probably you should hone all your talents in a MT program.
[/quote]
I'm gonna have to call B.S. on you here, too. Many who already have advance music and dance skill sets choose to pursue an acting degree because that is the area they feel they need to grow the most and it's a good choice for them. I know several who have done that.</p>
<p>I have to assume the B.S. you refer to stands for Bachelor of Science - right?</p>
<p>I cannot write books or even pamphlets here - when ever I post - I just do not have that kind of time. </p>
<p>Of course there are various styles of acting that could be studied endlessly - in grad school or beyond. That is not what I am referring to.</p>
<p>What I am referring to is really very simple. One - you stand the best chances of getting a job if are a true, legitamate triple threat. Two - some schools for MT require those MT students to take the full spectrum and the same number of acting classes (yes, in all styles that they offer) as they require of their acting BFA students. Hence, someone concerned with such things should investigate schools with special emphasis on said parameters. Simple.</p>
<p>Regarding employment - I have endeavored mightily not to be a name dropper - but I know some of the very best agents and agencies to be had - they will tell you - ESPECIALLY FOR YOUNG PEOPLE - the great majority of the work available to be had in theatre arts (for people under 30) is in musicals or "commercial" venues. It is a simply fact.</p>
<p>Now, I hope you will not be offended, but I will, eventually, agree with to some extent.</p>
<p>If your goal is MT - then you need to train in music, acting, and dance - that is what MT is (otherwise it is either straight theatre, opera, or dance). When you graduate (Undergrad) - you need to get out there and work in the MT field - it is a young persons game for the greater part. Yes, of course, there are some older folks, older parts and older stars in MT - they have made it over a career hump that very few can. I (being an older person) have a great many friends who have left MT and continued on in TV, film, directing, representation, and teaching.</p>
<p>I know you were anxiously awaiting the agreeing part...
After a few years - when it becomes more difficult to kick those legs up to your head - and if the older roles are not coming your way - or when you tire of working show-to-show....then one might want to teach, administer, produce, get into more advanced acting, directing, whatever - then one might opt to get the masters or doctorate degree. </p>
<p>I am sure CCM, BoCo, and the rest could provide you with lists of alumni that work in every major area of the arts that they provide degrees for (ask them) - you know, just because you have a MFA in MT does not mean you might not get another degreee at some point in your life.</p>
<p>It seems to me that, in your life, or that of a few of your aquaintences, acting is, was, continues to be your greatest gift. Perhaps your vocal and movement skills were good enough to get you by - but my point is again, simple - for the most part - honestly well trained and true triple threat folks will have more opportunities along the way - and if, at some point (mid 30"s?) - one might specialize in grad school to perhaps contribute, in a different way, to the general body of the performing arts.</p>
<p>oooo someone is sensitive about this!</p>
<p>"if acting is your only talent - then get a degree in acting (and you wouldn't even get into most MT programs) - however, if you can also sing and dance - probably you should hone all your talents in a MT program"</p>
<p>This I don't agree with. While I DEFINATLY am NOT one of the people who think that MT degrees are more, um, "fluffy" (I was just informing what lots of people do think, what forums are for) I do believe that it isn't out of the question to do an acting degree even if you can sing/dance.</p>
<p>While you are very right in saying that there are more types of show that you will be up for if you are a MT, the majority of the the entertainment business is straight acting, and therefor if you chose a MT conservatory that didn't have as much acting training as their actors (or one that has equal as their actors, yet it isn't a very intense or great program) then you wouldn't be as prepared for roles that you could get, therefor LIMITING the oportunities...</p>
<p>But it is all personal preferences, and school is just a preparation ground-what you are really going to learn is through experience</p>
<p>Haha I keep cross posting between this forum and the UK one I am on. I dont want to diss her at all because she seems super nice. However, there is a CAP21 gradutate that posts there that is going to study at the Birmingham School of Acting because she doesnt feel like the training she got in college was complete enough for classical theatre. She is also taking dance classes because
[quote]
i've wanted to learn to dance properly my whole life and I'm finally getting around to doing it ...
[/quote]
Six figure debt for an MT degree and she still needs lessons? I doubt it is any different at any other school where all you do is MT. No the skills are not the same. Classical acting is MUCH harder. And most MTers arent REAL triple threats anyway. Those people who are GREAT actors, singers and dancers are one in a gazillion. They are almost always weak in at least one of the three areas. </p>
<p>I happen to be one of those students that could do MT but will pursue a straight drama degree instead because that is my passion. I am getting paid good money to perform in an MT show right now in the ensemble and as a featured dancer although I would have a LONG way to go before I would consider myself fit to go back to performing with a professional ballet company. I don't see myself performing with the Metropolitan Opera either but I'm plenty good enough for MT. This is a skill set I will use between the gigs I really want.</p>
<p>And MTdog - I am glad you clarified that you intended your post to be career oriented and not acting advice. "Knowing people" does not qualify you to do that. It was just wrong on so many levels.</p>
<p>Ah yes, the limitation of the internet.</p>
<p>Again, there would never be enough time to be complete in responding to anything in a forum such as this.....and there are people who disagree with opinions...and there are people who miss the overall context ....and usually there is not enough time to put the whole thing into it's proper context....</p>
<p>Having just re-read what I wrote, I notice I sort ended mid-thought. That was because I had to get to a run-through of a real musical, in a real theater, with real equity actors, who have real representation, and are making a real life in the theatre. </p>
<p>First - this is a musical theatre forum - my advice is for those interested in musical theatre careers. Secondly (and I maybe wrong on this) it seems to me this forum is about undergraduate schools for MT and has largely to do with young people and their parents looking into which programs they might want to audition for, and how best to prepare for that audition - and then perhaps abit about adjusting to life in an undergraduate program. Again, this is where I aim my advice.</p>
<p>So.. CKP when I suggest that someone who is multi-talented apply those gifts in the area that calls for more than one talent (MT) - it seems perfectly reasonable to me -am I missing something. I did not mean, in any way to suggest that it would be wrong to study acting (or psychology, or economics).</p>
<p>True enough, if you look at industries represented by SAG, AFTRA, AEA, SSDC, and AGVA - yes, there are more jobs to be held in straight acting. But that is not the subject matter of this, appropriately titled, "Musical Theatre" group. If, on the other hand, you possess the talents that would allow you to pursue a career in MT - I think it is a better choice...and in the area of stage performace of live theatrical events - there are way more jobs for MT types than straight actors under the age of 30 - just a fact of the biz.</p>
<p>I never suggested that someone should attend an inferior program - are you implying that a program that require's their MT majors to take all the same classes as their acting major must necessarily be a poor program? No, I just think one needs to research which schools or programs they might attend and find a good program that offer the kind of training they are looking for.</p>
<p>Actressfosho - I have enjoyed your posts, your fiestiness, and your un-ending campaign against "age-ism"! I think - although sometimes it is hard to tell - that we might agree a some issues. You seem to be saying you have enough acting skills to get along in MT for now - and there is more to learn - right? I think there is always more to learn.</p>
<p>Now - I could have you for three semsesters - then Ithink I might be able to convince you that GOOD acting for MT is the same as good acting. Yes there are myriad of schools and stylings of acting. I think many of you would be surprized to become aware of the breadth of stylings one needs to compete in - in the complete spectrum of MT. For example, are you familiar with the body of work Bertolt Brecht worked on with Weill and other composers? These are musicals (you might know "Three Penny Opera, Happy End, God Woman of Setzuan) that require a distinctly "brechtian" style in the acting (and singing and staging) elements. Wildly different from the burlesque comedy styling of "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum", marked different from largly sung-through "Light in the Piazza" and I defy anyone not to be brought to tears by a properly delivered speech by Adam as he relates the death of Eve in "Apple Tree" - anyway, your post sounds as if you doubt my ability to understand acting and the techniques involved - you are wrong on that account.</p>
<p>Also, I am sorry your cyber-friend in England did not feel as though she got what she needed in terms of acting and/or dance training from Cap-21 - I guess, for her, she should have done more research before investing all that money in a program that was not right for her. I assure you and others that there are many programs that can provide their students with the goods they need to make a career in MT. Let me add sometimes students do not take advantage of what is available to them (in terms of taking on electives or availing themselves of training outside the stritch requirements of their major; and sometimes student who get into great programs and graduate still simply cannot cut it - it is a tough real world out theree.</p>
<p>Finally, you question the existence of the mythical "Triple-threat" - I agree they are hard to find. ...not as hard as "big foot", but still pretty hard. Probably one or two in a million - which means about 800 -1000 in the english-speaking world. They are out there - there just hard to come by. Many more people are double or 2.5 threats. Some times, with training and experience a double or 2.5 can improve a lot in the area they are weak in.</p>
<p>By the way, please don't disparage my "friends" - they are not your garden variety high school or internet chums. The people I speak of are working actors, agents, writers, directors, choreographers - persons with whom I have developed personal and/or professional ties with.</p>
<p>It is hard to know what to do when you are young, it is hard to know what to do when you are old. So I offer what seems good advice to me.... if you want to be an actor - go to a program that does that; if want to sing at the Met - go study vocal performance; if you want to be a ballerina - your time has passed (if you were not in a major school by the time you were 17 - and that is pushing it - you are not going to be in any magor ballet company). BUT - if god has blessed you with at least two (and you are willing to work your butt off at the third) of the famed "triple-threat" AND you burn with undeniable passion for a carrer in MT - then please research , find the right program for you - and go with God's speed (and maybe you won't make Broadway - but maybe you'll make ot to Goodspeed!)</p>
<p>Mtdog71,
Thats Miss Freshman. Actually, Im now Miss NoLongerinaFishbowlRisingFirstYearbutnotReallyaFreshmanAnymore ... but I'll spare everyone changing my name to that. ;) Are you now implying that youre an MT professional or faculty member? I have been told otherwise. Anyway
[quote]
I am sure CCM, BoCo, and the rest could provide you with lists of alumni that work in every major area of the arts that they provide degrees for (ask them).
[/quote]
Of course they could since they have Opera and Dance degrees. I think they even offer Masters degrees in those areas, but that wasnt the point. CCM also has a Drama degree and I bet there are a few from there who have found work on the classical stage without needing grad school. There might even be some performing in musicals. However, I seriously doubt youll find their MT grads working in anything except musicals or possibly doing screen work without additional training - and that's great if that's what they want to do. Like you said, they can get that additional training later if they find it necessary. </p>
<p>On the other hand, there are many, many, many people who have Acting degrees who already had good music and dance skills that are doing quite well in MT. Just look at the alumni lists from the major drama conservatories and youll find loads of them. So basically you can turn your statement around to say that someone who is already well-trained to MT standards in music and dance can get serious actor training and actually be more versatile when theyre younger than one who has only studied MT since they simply wont be ready to perform on the classical stage. </p>
<p>As an added note, they touch on Brechtian style acting at any drama school worth its salt. Ive never done it, but it cant be particularly difficult since Tony nominations can be garnered casting pop stars and standup comediennes in the leads of The Threepenny Opera." ;) Those who have mastered Shakespeare and the subtleties of Chekhov shouldnt have much of a problem with it.</p>
<p>I do agree that many of the best straight stage roles occur after the age of twenty-five. Even the younger ones are often filled by older actors who can play young. Theres an actress who is appareantly somewhere between thirty-seven and forty years old playing Roxanne in Cyrano de Bergerac at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival this season. Heres to good genes and lotsa makeup! Even the chick playing Anne Frank is a CMU grad who has to be at least twenty-five! I wonder how many thirty-year-old Ophelias, Rosalinds, and Juliets there are running around out there. I doubt there are many gigs for those who can "play older." LOL However, there are plenty of recent BFA Drama grads from the top tier conservatories who are working steadily in straight drama in regional theatre that never touch a musical ... and wouldnt want to. Yes people like that exist, but I doubt most think its all just the pulp fiction/Disneyfied tripe of the theatre world. It can be good entertainment and lots of fun when done well. :)</p>
<p>Thanks everything for your advice. I am stronger in singing then acting. Dancing is definitely my weakest of the three. I really do want to major either in acting or musical theatre and do my masters perhaps. You all have given me alot to think about. Thanks!</p>
<p>Are you aware of the greek roots words for "sophmore"? - look it up.</p>
<p>No one on these board actually knows me - what you "heard " is in error.</p>
<p>To speak out of ignorance about Brecht (an icon in the development of Western Theatre) is just sad. I'd suggest more research.</p>
<p>There may be some confusion about me by some on the boards because someone would need to know me for the better part of two decades to be in a position to comment on my experience - and the fact that I have mentioned - from time to time that one of my post graduate concentrations resulted in my have a master's degree in counseling - which, I think, gives me a great perspective to share - between my experience , professionally and academically with theatre arts and my work in couseling. I have mentioned to some, privately that I have too many personal and/or profesional connections with folks in both academic and professional arenas to completely ID myself - I think, and once i did, offend a collegue , by unintentional omission - and I do not want to run that risk (plus, as a result - probably - of my ancient age, I do not trust the net and worry - probably uselessly about ID theft or whatever) But, it does not really matter - people who want to listen to my opions are welcome to - I think I have something to offer - those who do not agree with me are also fine with me. I guess the implication of "BS" is unfair - I don't do that. I share what I know to be true from my life experience - I agree others might have had different experiences.</p>
<p>I love dramatic theatre, I love dance, I do not love opera - but I enjoy it and appreciate and respect the artform (just is a bit too long at times for me to patronize on a regular basiis) - and I like MT. These are not mutually exclusive clubs. Neither is one area or another deemed by the gods, congress, parliment, the pope, the most respected rabbi, or Castro to be higher and deserving more praise than the other. The insecurity and/or arrogance that make some people act that way is not a good thing.</p>
<p>It is clear - when you write about MT majors "only" doing MT and thats OK if that all they want to do - that you have a bias against MT - fine, just recognize it embrace it, and try to understand that you have a decided slant in your views. But be fair about it - don't be surprized that at an impressive regional convocation for straight theatre typs - that it is populated by mostly those types - - now, if you where at an SSDF symposium discussing the development of new musical work in the US and there, noticed a decided dearth of MT folks and a huge representation of straight drama folks -- well that would be worthy of remarking. My Uncle Shelly used to complain, "Enough with the sports analogies already!" If you will indulge me one more time. If you are citing a pro golf master's event - should you be surprized the lack of baseball players? Of course not, neither then should you cite events that are intended for drama persons (or cite the casts of great regional theatre like the Guthrie and others that rarely touch on MT) which are lacking folks with BFAs in MT as proof of the superiority of acting over MT. Does that make sense.</p>
<p>You may have noted that I agree there is a time in life when further studies (possibly a BFA in Acting) would benefit the MT person's personal development.....but that does not mean those who are capable (of singing and dancing as well as acting) should limit their options when choosing a BFA program.</p>
<p>Sorry...but my first comment is be nice :) Guess you can't take the mom in me out!</p>
<p>But really, I am no expert but I have had discussions like this with other parents and perhaps it is time to weigh in here - although this is MY OPINION and by no means should it be taken as anything but opinion and a discussion of my situation.</p>
<p>My D is only interested in MT. We have discussed 'straight acting' as an option to MT since that is a little less competitive. She says 'no thanks'. Shoukd she not make it into an MT program (and she knows this is possible), she feels music (perhaps VP) would be a good fit or theatre management..</p>
<p>She has been acting for many years and was blessed to having begun her training with an drama teacher who was classically trained in England (RADA) and who believed... no - expected her students, regardless of age, to master classical acting. They worked hard but they did it! Soon my D discovered music and singing and found she was very good at both. SHe has worked hard on her vocal talent and has been able to get some dance training as well. She is a double threat for sure and working hard at becoming triple! SHe wants to study and work in MT and intends to do so.....</p>
<p>Now, my two cents, is that you should focus in college on what you love- it is so hard to divine the future and say what you want to do when you are older (like me!!) I find daily folks whose degree includes NOTHING they studied in college (LIKE ME!!!). Why obsess over it? </p>
<p>My S (who is 2 years younger than my D) is a theatre major at the PA high school they attend. He is NOT interested in MT but intends to pursue straight theatre only. He has been in musicals and is a good singer and an average dancer but he loves all aspects of theatre and would not do well in an MT program because that isnt where his passion is. He wants to do everything involved with theater but does not feel he would be fulfilled in an MT program. </p>
<p>Two kids.........two passions.........two programs...............'nuff said!</p>
<p>MikksMOM</p>
<p>Mikksmom, good post, particularly the conclusion! :)</p>
<p>MTdog,</p>
<p>Sophomore isnt quite right, either. Actually, I would have a been sophomore had I stayed put at my first school, a Junior had I stayed at State U, and Ill be a first-year where Im going, so Im a student without a year. Just dont call me a senior
Dawg. :p
[quote]
To speak out of ignorance about Brecht (an icon in the development of Western Theatre) is just sad. I'd suggest more research.
[/quote]
Ive studied Brecht. I cant say Im a fan, either. Just havent actually performed it or done the scene work. I dont see how not identifying with the character and not allowing the audience to do so; but, instead functioning as an observer and judging could be such rocket science. Then, I also have a bias against socialist ideology. Yes, hes an icon, but perhaps Im a bit iconoclastic. ;) I suppose its like some music professors apparently having an obsession with the twelve-tone music many of their students despise but nod on about knowingly because theyre supposed to. I dunno ... Cast me in it and I'll play it. :) You cant deny Threepenny got those Tony nominations with Cindi Lauper as Jenny and Ana Gasteyer as Mrs. Peachum. Then, I was partially speaking in jest thus the winky. ;) I imagine Scott Elliott got the most out of their capabilities.</p>
<p>I dont think anyone has suggested that MTers cant act. Its just a matter of degree and being a complete actor certainly couldnt hurt. It also doesnt hurt for screen acting though a lot of what one has learned may never come into play. Id love to see Sutton Foster or Kristin Chenoweth in virtually any musical, but I dont think Id pay to see either perform Shakespeare. On the other hand, Id be interested in seeing Patti LuPone in anything she chooses to do. I dont have any bias against MT, either. Actually, I like a lot of it though Im not one to go skipping down the street singing show tunes. It just is what it is as far as training goes at many places.</p>
<p>I understand about not wanting to reveal your identity. Ive been careful to not do that or say exactly where Im going or where Ive been myself except to a few select people off-list. Whod want to risk going through the next four years known as Fishbowl. LOL There are also some personal details Ive talked about somewhat freely that I dont want people Ill be meeting for the first time to instantly identify me with. I dont want to create any bias against my old school, either, since its all pretty much my personal experience as shaped by one bad experience early on. However, as Im sure you know, there will always be a question of credibility if youre going to make that pretense. Psychology professor is what I was told. </p>
<p>And, yeah BS was kinda harsh but rest assured I didnt mean BFA. ;) I do get carried away sometimes. However, I think the point the rest of us were making stands in that a student needs to evaluate what they want to do and where their skill sets stand in making the decision on what to major in. Another perfectly valid path to MT for some is to get a BM in vocal performance and then work on the acting later. Thats what Audra McDonald and Kelli OHara did, right?</p>
<p>There are alot of great programs for MT that have great emphasis in acting. Carnegie Mellon is one of them. Look for programs that emphasize acting technique along with music and dance</p>
<p>My personal opinion is, if possible, to go in as an acting major with opportunities to take both singing and dance lessons. With this, you are able to develop a strong acting base while allowing yourself to grow as a singer and dancer as well.</p>
<p>Thanks Mikksmom. I am both like your daughter/son actually. My ultimate goal is to learn as many aspects in theatre as possible and start my own theatre company.I'm thinking of doing a BFA for Musical theatre first then maybe a Masters in acting. I'm going to see what I get in at each schools. When I do apply at some point will probably apply for several degrees/see what happens. Everyone is giving great advice. If I do do just an acting degree will definitely still work on singing and dancing. Why I made this thread was to see everyone's responses. I don't have any bias on a person just doing an acting major or musical theatre major. I just thought it was interesting that a few people I knew were saying an acting degree is better to go with versus a musical theatre degree.</p>