<p>But doubleplay, whether or not a URM is bragging about it, the advantage is real. It is understandable that a peer without the URM status feels angry. The peers should, of course, swallow that jealousy & extend good wishes.</p>
<p>Another life lesson:</p>
<p>Even in adult life, successful "URMs" will always feel like their peers believe that they got where the are because of the color of their skin. They will feel compelled to spend their working life going above and beyond just to prove otherwise.</p>
<p>Exactly, weenie. One of the downsides of AA.</p>
<p>Rick - Congratulations to your daughter on her fine acceptances. I'm sure she deserves them, as do all who are accepted. Please don't concern yourself with those who suggest that you D had some advantage that tipped the admission decision in her direction. EVERY student has some advantage. It may be family wealth or legacy status or athletic prowess or access to lots of AP courses or residence in a distant (and underpopulated) state or outstanding guidance or parents with expert knowledge of the system. Your D got in on her merits. 'nuff said.</p>
<p>StickerShock, I agree, and this may be the first time in some kids' lives that they figure out that life ain't fair. I've been preaching this to mine for a long time. They attended a private hs where most of the other students were several economic strata above us; the advantages were obvious in many ways even within the school itself (ahem, preferential treatment). My mantra--- you just gotta keep plugging away, doing your own thing. Everything works out eventually if you work hard, and you'll never be unhappy if you're helping others. </p>
<p>As far as outward expressions of anger- only if it's invited. A classmate of my son's was discussing her application to a very selective private U here in the south. She volunteered her scores (200+ lower than s) and she's not taken near the "hard" classes most students take. My son said to her, "ya know, that school is pretty hard to get into. Most students who get accepted have at least 4 APs and are in the 1400's." And her response was, "yeah but I'm Chilean." You want to talk about biting the tongue????</p>
<p>But he did bite it, she got in, he didn't, oh well. Life continues. But in THAT particular case, I'd say she has it coming to her if people start to talk.</p>
<p>"How do parents and kids know everbody elses stats? Seems weird to me "</p>
<p>My younger daughter is in an IB program in a large public high school. The school posts the ranking list for each grade right near the front door of the school after every report card. She is a freshman and did well on the PSAT (required). The results were handed out in the cafeteria. THe student had to come up to a table with the letter of their last name and receive theirs. Zoosersister got the best score out of the freshman and sophomore class. The person giving out the score announced that fact loudly and made a very big fuss. Now everyone knows and the knives are out for daughter. Thankfully, she couldn't care less. But sometimes the schools do things that allow everyone to know others' business.</p>
<p>Like at least one other poster here, I guess I'm a minority opinion that I was not put off by the OP's alleged "lack of empathy." The key word & theme in his opening post was "surprised." And just the fact that he shows awareness of the social and emotional vibes on campus (& probably between, among parents) shows empathy, not arrogance. But that's just my opinion. It is also my opinion as an equally surprised (& pleased) parent of a couple of years ago. It is awkward for the "victor" if the victor has half an ounce of empathy, let alone much more than an ounce.</p>
<p>Rick, there's nothing you can do about it, in the active/proactive sense. My D was extremely gracious to her peers, & behaved with true humility because she indeed <em>was</em> surprised and to this day wonders "why [those colleges]liked me so much." (That is not false modesty.) To her teachers, and for that matter to her (quite empathetic & loyal) classmates, it was not as much a surprise. But naturally, there were rejections among this tight-knit group, and wait-lists -- some, i.m.o. "not deserved."</p>
<p>But no one gets it yet. Folks, it's not about deserving. People really can't do the math. The number of seats in "top" colleges (more on my agreement with CGM later) is about the same as it's always been. But at least five factors have reduced significantly (and increasingly over the last 5 years) the <em>proportions</em> (thus, the chances) of students getting into the "most" selective colleges during each cycle, from each high school.</p>
<p>(1) Echo-boom population graduating from high school -- STILL ON THE INCREASE IN THE SHORT TERM.
(2) Progressively greater levels of achievement, competency among graduating seniors over the last several years, overall.
(3) More widespread knowledge of, interest in, motivation for, "top" colleges among seniors nationwide, from all regions of the country.
(4) Specifically, larger pools of desirable target populations to "top" colleges: qualified URM's, qualified students in relative poverty, qualified students in geographically under-represented areas of the country.
(5) Greater numbers of applications (from each applicant, on average) to "top" (and all other) colleges, resulting in greater competition from a sheer numerical standpoint -- & also resulting in yield & predictability concerns for colleges -- with all the pragmatics that also implies.</p>
<p>There may be a sixth, which is perhaps just my perception: an increased & more universal sophistication about the college admissions process. (LOL, blame CC, among others.)</p>
<p>I don't think that most people have a handle on how truly few spots there are at these "top" colleges (esp. the Elites, versus the numbers applying there). Just limit yourself to the h.school senior population among all the major metro areas of the country. It is HUGE. If these colleges want regional diversity (and they do), the chances of any one particular applicant making it in -- an applicant without a major hook -- are very, very small. And that's not even considering mini's statements about "set-asides." Even if there were no seats "reserved" for athletes, major donors, & musical/artistic celebrities, the numbers would still be shockingly small for freshman admits to a small to mid-size private U. I have a specific number to illustrate this, but it would be more appropriate to reveal that in a PM, so I will to whomever is interested & wants to PM me.</p>
<p>I agree with CGM that "top" colleges is an ambiguous & misleading phrase, and covers a wider spread than is often perceived by the public, including the CC public. And even those colleges not, by consensus, considered "top," can afford to be a lot more selective these days, given the applicant pools they are seeing. Lots of heretofore "qualified" candidates being rejected from Tier 2 schools this round because although their grades & scores were equal to accepted competitors, their e.c.'s & their essays were definitely not equal. (I know of some cases.)</p>
<p>I don't know about the dynamics at rick's D's high school. At our own, it is intimate. The students make it their business (I don't know about "beating it out," but certainly pleading it out & manipulating it out) to find out other people's GPA's, scores, & college lists. Mostly this is just by virtue of voluntary sharing among mostly close-knit classes that are both cooperative & competitive.</p>
<p>Gentle Readers,</p>
<p>When discussing good fortune, there is very little difference between outright bragadocia and the coy, "I don't know why I'm so lucky, but I am." Both are equally hurtful to those on the receiving end.</p>
<p>The fact that someone makes a public demonstration of their sympathy to the plight of others is not necessarily palliative. Take for example the case of the rich man speaking to the poor single mother, "My dear, it is so hard to be in my shoes...I am rich and you are poor and there really is no reason for this but by accident of birth. You have no idea how I suffer because of others' jealousy. Every night I sit and think about how unfair it is; yea, I cannot even walk down the street without people making snide remarks. It makes me so unhappy at times. Woe is me."</p>
<p>Sometimes it's just better to keep quiet.</p>
<p>"Sometimes it's just better to keep quiet."</p>
<p>For sure, but sometimes information gets out through ways other than the subject's mouth.</p>
<p>You know that the applications ask "where was your father born," yet you're not certain whether your daughter checked the "hispanic" box?</p>
<p>To make your point, was it really necessary to list, by name, all six top schools where your daughter was admitted?</p>
<p>Is life really going to be "rough" on her with 6 awesome acceptances in her pocket, just because of some sour grapes from a friend?</p>
<p>The post just doesn't sit right with me.</p>
<p>If your daughter was applying for architectural programs, she had to submit an extensive portfolio, and the vetting she received was very similar to that musicians and other artists undergo. If her grades and scores were within the range/parameters of the schools' other accepted students, her admission would have been primarily decided in the department. If she was a classical violinist who had been publically performing, there would have been no reaction to her acceptance at several fine conservatories. In this case, her work has been done in private, but it is a creative, artistic endeavor requiring fine talent. She must be very gifted. Congralations.</p>
<p>
[quote]
You know that the applications ask "where was your father born," yet you're not certain whether your daughter checked the "hispanic" box?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The question as OP stated is not asked on the college application. However the question is asked to where was the applicant born (in the ethnicity secion) and the application asks for the country of Origin if applicant is a Permanent resident or other country of citizenship is the applicant has dual citizenship on the common application and on other applications.</p>
<p>So in order for OP's D to get the "URM tip" she would have had to check the box. </p>
<p>While it does not excuse the behavior or the treatment she received from her friends I can see there being a disconnect amongst her peers if they believe (and we are talking about kids here) that she does not "act hispanic" or has never identified with being hispanic and "pulled out her hispanic card" when it came time to apply to college. </p>
<p>While we don't know how everything transpired at the school whether OP's
D told students she got accepted to A, B, C, & D or if she told one person then everything took on a life of its own, overall I think that we do have to remind our kids that a little grace is always needed during this time of year as your kid's safety could be someone's dream school, and there are going to be students accepted and denied at a number of places. </p>
<p>While some students could be jealous, many still have no true understanding of the college process and that school's build classes. As a result, they have a very myopic view and only see things in terms of scores and GPAs. This shortsidedness does lead to students being hurt with decision outcomes, so they strike out others and come to the conclusion that someone "less worthy" took their spot.</p>
<p>Any parent who thinks it's very possible for your classmates not to know where you've just been accepted, is not much in touch with the reality that I know of, in high schools I'm quite familiar with (both publics & privates).</p>
<p>You don't think, on the morning after admissions are posted to HYPSM, as well as Berkeley, Rice, etc., students are not arriving at school with exactly one thing on their mind? They're not inquisitive, even demanding, of each others' news? I mean, you would have to expect that no one has shared a single piece of college information (including lists applied to, scores, grades, etc.) with anyone else. Are there vows of monastic silence at your various schools?</p>
<p>The morning after admissions were online at one of my D's college choices, all her friends demanded to know her news -- including those who had also applied to that school. Should she have lied? Alienated them by saying "sometimes it's better to keep quiet"? These were the same students, btw, who had suggested she apply there EA. She answered truthfully, without gloating & with sincere surprise/shock. (It took both my D and I a full 48 hours merely to absorb the news.)</p>
<p>And even if that were not happening, at our school the Naviance scattergrams get posted virtually instantly. Sometimes that's the result of student reporting to the college counselor. Sometimes, however, it's the result of the colleges separately reporting those results. So if the students know that only particular people have applied to particular colleges, it will be very obvious very soon what those results are, per Naviance scattergrams.</p>
<p>It seems unnecessary for any student to mention the long list of schools they got into. Even when my daughter's best friend asked her, the most my D said was "I'm deciding between A and B" without mentioning C,D,E and F, knowing that her friend had also applied to many of the same. Many students don't talk too much about where they are applying either, as it creates all sorts of ill feelings.</p>
<p>Our school does not report on Naviance unless quite a few students were accepted to that school, to protect their privacy. And the only postings that go up on the board are the single school that the student has decided to attend, after the deposit has been sent.</p>
<p>Wow, the dynamics at some schools reported about here are quite different from that at my D's. It's not about reciting a "long list." Again, when a school or class is small, the opportunities for such sharing multiply. It has nothing to do with what's "necessary." It just happens. It's part of the openness at this school, which obviously is also a potential downside.</p>
<p>The way Naviance works at our school is not the way at works at some others, obviously. The classes are so small, that if the college counselor were to be guided by only posting college results with "large" lists, there would be zero postings. And in that case, the school might as well cancel their Naviance subscription and refund the parents for that. The parents and students alike have found the scattergrams and the "acceptance history" an invaluable college planning tool. Those tools are used much more for the practical needs of subsequent classes than for any morbid or "unnecessary" curiosity. It's been deemed "necessary" by the school & the families paying this high tuition.</p>
<p>I have to agree with StickerShock, Roscoe and others. Certainly being URM is a HUGE advantage and I can understand how those classmates feel. Knowing that they feel you had an unfair advantage, why on earth would you brag about your acceptances? </p>
<p>College applications were definintely a life lesson for both my son and for me. I guess it was the first time we realized that students' ancestry, skin color or geography was at least as important as what they have accomplished. Is it any wonder that URM accomplishments are sometimes viewed with skepticism? I guess AA is not all it's cracked up to be.</p>
<p>URM or not, students should try to display modesty and empathy with their fellow hs classmates.</p>
<p>In a few short months HS will be a fading memory and there will be new friends and many new adventures. Any problems now are just part of the breaking away process.</p>
<p>epiphany
[quote]
You don't think, on the morning after admissions are posted to HYPSM, as well as Berkeley, Rice, etc., students are not arriving at school with exactly one thing on their mind? They're not inquisitive, even demanding, of each others' news?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>;) My kids go to an all boys' school. And no, they are most definitely not arriving at school demanding each others' news. Ha. Demanding donuts maybe. News?! I don't think so.</p>
<p>epiphany
[quote]
Are there vows of monastic silence at your various schools?
[/quote]
Outside of class? It's pretty much sports, cars, and grunts.</p>
<p>lfk:
[quote]
I guess it was the first time we realized that students' ancestry, skin color or geography was at least as important as what they have accomplished.
[/quote]
You must not work in an affirmative action environment. :)</p>
<p>Barrons is right - this too shall pass. And quickly.</p>
<p>Well maybe I shouldn't have chosen the word "demanding." I meant so in a positive way, as in, insistently curious. Could be difference in genders, perhaps?;)</p>