<p>So I've applied to University of Central Florida for Music ed and music perf as a transfer. I am coming from SUNY Purchase where I didn't take very many academic courses simply because they were not required.
Well I submitted my app and it seems I have been "deferred for further review" because transfer students applying with more than 60 credits ( I have 78 ) must have taken 2 math courses and 2 english courses. I have taken one english. I was in a conservatory of music which was a SUNY school, and math just wasn't required. I have been in contact with the head of the department of music and it seems like they really want me to come. So I told him the trouble and he said that he would speak to admissions.
What are the odds of admissions bending the rules on this?
I've not delt with any of this so I'd welcome any help.</p>
<p>Well, it is a good sign that you were deferred instead of flat out rejected. That says that they may at least be willing to consider an exception. Might they be willing to meet you half way if, for example, you were to take a math course at a community college over the summer? You will eventually need at least one math course under your belt in many states to be licensed as a teacher in any event and, in the likely event that not all of your credits transfer, it could be helpful to take it now and have more room in your schedule later.</p>
<p>I'm 100% fine with taking the math classes, but let me in to the darn school and I'll take them!</p>
<p>Just throwing out an idea you could use in negotiating with them. If you take too hard a line, they could easily choose to stick to their rules.</p>
<p>No I understand 100%.
I wrote them saying I would be happy to take the courses at a community college, and that I would be at the college for 4 more years considering I'm starting a new major.
I guess its in their hands.</p>
<p>Hopefully the music dept. head has some pull on your behalf. Good luck.</p>
<p>Just curious why you are transferring from a high caliber conservatory, where you are in-state (which means a much lower tuition!) to a lower ranked OOS state school, without a reknowned music program?</p>
<p>allmusic - i had the same question. perhaps a boyfriend or girlfriend?</p>
<p>First, you can't get a Music Ed degree at Purchase.</p>
<p>I fail to see how anyone can comment on the UCF caliber of music without knowing what instrument the OP studies. If he's a tuba or euphonium student, the chance to study with Gail Robertson would be enough reason. Some of the best music teachers and performers in the world are not part of the so called conservatory system.</p>
<p>First of all I would never go somewhere for a boyfriend. Not a chance, this is college we are talking about.
2nd I want to get a music ed degree. The state of the country right now is bad, I think anyone who is just getting a performance degree should think twice. The logical step after graduating with a performance degree is a young artist program, then an apprenticeship, then auditioning for roles. Inevitably one will come back to teaching when they dont make it, or dont make money.
Most of my teachers had performing careers, very wonderful ones for many years, but they came back to teaching. Also, when your dealing with classical singing, you need to wait for your voice to mature, at 21 I'm not going to be singing Violetta in Traviata.
as for Purchase, its not all its cracked up to be. Thats all I will say about that, if you have questions about Purchase, message me privately.
Also, I lived in FL for 18 years, then moved to new york FOR purchase. So for me, I'm going home.</p>
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Inevitably one will come back to teaching when they dont make it, or dont make money.
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<p>I don't want to hijack this thread...but the above quote is not universally true. DS will teach private lessons but he will NOT teach in a school setting as a band/orchestra director or an elementary music teacher. It's simply not something he wants to do. If he cannot perform and make ends meet, he'll look at some other kind of work to do and perform on the side. </p>
<p>I would advise musicians...if you do NOT want to teach school aged students do NOT get a degree in music education. You have to WANT to do this to pursue this career. AND as the OP has already found out...the course requirements for music ed are quite rigorous...both in teacher preparation and music...and general education requirements required of ALL teachers (and that includes that math/English one).</p>
<p>Yes, I agree with the sentiments above that say the profession of a secondary school music teacher should NOT be regarded as a money-making backup.</p>
<p>Haven't everybody experienced an unhappy and bitter music teacher who only taught kids because they couldn't make it as performers? Miserable teachers don't help anything - certainly not the children.</p>
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<p>So yeah, I copy and paste what I wrote in a previous thread:</p>
<p>I believe that Music Education is something NOT to be regarded as a "backup". Too often, music educators at the secondary and grammar school levels are failed performers themselves, and do not bring the correct mindset when they come to the job. That's not good for the kids, and certainly not good for the future of music. Only those who truly want to be grade/secondary school teachers (those that would rather teach kids than perform) should be encouraged to pursue a Music Education degree.</p>
<p>The lives of an education major versus a performance major are quite different. The music education major takes a larger range of academic classes and probably learns to play several instruments, and graduates with a certification to teach at a high school or middle school or elementary school in the college's state/province/country. A performance major is thrust into hard-core tight focus on his instrument, taking courses and ensembles revolving around this instrument, and is expected to practice up to 3 times more than a music ed student. He graduates with NO certification to teach anywhere, but if he becomes well known in the field, he may be asked to interview for a professorial position.</p>
<p>An applicant to college must be very aware of these differences when deciding whether or not to pursue a music degree.</p>
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<p>While there are a number of famous musicians who might have studied music ed, on the general side once you do try to get into the music ed business/community, it is hard to back. You do kind of essentially give up on your dreams of being a performer.</p>
<p>XoxtinysingerXox, you mention your own teachers at Purchase. But those are college-level professors. That's big difference from the high school band teachers that come out of Music Ed! You can become a private lessons teacher or a professor by getting degrees in performance and becoming well known enough that you are able to build up a studio due to your reputation. Music Ed degrees certainly don't give you any legs up there - they only qualify you to teach band and music appreciation courses in high school and middle school!</p>
<p>Also Xoxtinysingerxox, you mention you are okay with taking 4 years to do this. Then, why apply as a transfer and worry about these credits? Why not apply straight up for the undergrad program?</p>
<p>stephmin, the logistics of transfer require full disclosure. You can't transfer as a "freshman" or first time student if you have credits amassed as a matriculated undergrad degree candidate at a degree granting institution. Now as to whether transferred credits actually will be applied to the "new" school will be determined by the accepting institution's policies.</p>
<p>Most degree granting institutions require a minimum of 60 credits be massed "in residence", so for most this is a minimum four semester equivalent of time at the school.</p>
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Music Ed degrees certainly don't give you any legs up there - they only qualify you to teach band and music appreciation courses in high school and middle school!
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</p>
<p>I will argue this point vehemently. stephmin, they teach you to become certified in the standards applicable to licensure within a state mandated setting. The music ed curriculum includes mandated courses in history, mathematics, english and health, general educational psychology, cognitive theory, as well as specific coursework in the cognitive aspects of music perception, as well as teaching practicums and a supervised student teaching experience. Additionally, an intermediate level of proficiency is required across all orchestral instruments and choral aspects, as well as a specialty area in a specific voice or instrumental discipline. Please refer to the undergrad music ed degree requirements of institutions such as IU, Oberlin, Hartt, Ithaca and a host of others. The BM is music heavy, and minimizes liberal arts requirements; the BS TENDS to be less music heavy, but can require more educational theory/cognitive theory than a BM, but the distinction is institution specific. There are BS degrees on par with BM's for music course designated degree requirements. The BA has the least of mandated music or educational requirements, with the heaviest of general liberal arts requirements. </p>
<p>These degrees tend to be light in specific upper division coursework in music pedagogy, which centers of skill sets to effectively teach, communicate and assess music skills within studio, one on one and small ensemble settings. It's an area worth investigating if a student is interested in teaching privately, in a non-public institution, or a community music school setting other than a licensed k-12 setting.</p>
<p>While there may be lousy music teachers everywhere, it is unfair to cast them all as failed performers. Many are just lousy teachers, regardless of what they teach. </p>
<p>Some of the best performers are the worst teachers. Some of the best teachers are exceptional performers, although they may have never set foot on stage at the Met or Avery Fisher Hall.</p>
<p>Let me clear something up. I am not using my music ed degree as a backup or fall back. I have a strong passion for music, I would not be in this field if I didn't. I feel that NO ONE can be 100% sure that they will have a career. You can pour your blood sweat and tears into it all and still not make it. The business is very subjective. I have seen people graduate with their perf degree and go do things not even closely related to music because the degree itself, will NOT get you a job. If you do have a career, after that career, when you are old/older and cant perform any more, you will need to find SOME way to make an income. After you have been performing for 20 years chances are you aren't going to switch professions completely.
As for my own plan, I'm 21, I want to give myself options. I love music, it is the only thing I will ever do, but I'm not sure what exactly that will be. Of course I would love to perform, but to do in blindly and not have something else to do wouldn't be smart. I'm not saying I view teaching as a "fall back", more as just another path I could take.
If I attend UCF I would be allowed to finish my performance major as well as get an education major. Alot of the basic courses are the same (36 credits to be exact), much of which I have already completed. Yes there are many extra classes that differ for both majors, but I am going to teach vocal music if I do teach. Why not get the extra training in voice? I would take classes in ear training, italian, german and french rep, music history, ipa, diction, and language. Are these all things that would be necessary information to pass on to students.
I feel that its best to arm myself with the most information that I can, my undergrad will not determine 100% what career I pursue.</p>
<p>Dear xoxtinysingerxox:</p>
<p>Brava for you. You echoed both my and my daughter's sentiments exactly. Asking a 17 year-old or a 21-year to decide unequivocally what they want to be five, ten or 15 years from now is little like asking a cloud about career opportunities. An artistic and/or opportunistic person makes his or her way through the world, but also responds to constantly evolving situations. My daughter (pursuing a double major in voice performance and music education) was asked repeatedly during the college audition process -- well, what do you prefer -- voice performance or music education? She came up with the right answer: "I have proven that I am very talented in both areas -- vocal performance and teaching kids and I enjoy both tremendously. At the age of 17, I don't have all the information I need to decide one over the other.</p>
<p>Well said, KeyofH. My H is a public school music teacher and professional conductor (orchestra and choir). He really enjoys his teaching position, and knows he makes a big difference in many kids' lives. If you would have asked him at age 20, he would have claimed there is no way he would teach public school.</p>
<p>Just an update, I will not be admitted with out taking those classes first. So it looks like community college for a semester....</p>
<p>xoxtinysingerxox, did they consider a conditional admit if you took those courses over the summer?</p>
<p>They have not rejected me yet. I spoke to admissions today, they wont reject me until after my audition. I live in NY currently, and the full summer session bleeds into the fall semester in FL at UCF. So thats not an option.</p>