Admitted with lower scores/GPA

<p>D had a very good friend who did not receive an acceptance despite good grades, good scores, lots of AP's, and a sister now attending. The friend really has bled orange and blue for the past few years. What stings even more is that they have two acquantances at school who are in with much lower test scores and GPA's etc, but who auditioned for the music dept. They auditioned and indicated that they were very interested in majoring in music. One was offered a spot the day of the audition, and one received a letter 6-8 weeks later with an acceptance. Problem is, neither is planning on majoring in music. They are very talented musicians, who learned that they could gain an invitation via their instruments, and after attending for a semester or two, simply change their major. Both were offered a small tuition scholarship, which is the only thing they loose by changing majors. While they did have to "wait" until Friday for their formal status change, barring something huge in the appliation process (scores in the 400's, a suspension, an F in a class) they were already in. And they were bragging about how they worked the system. Seems even the band director knew they weren't all that serious about majoring in music, but supported their auditions as he wants to brag about how many of his band students got into to UF via audition.....</p>

<p>Would you support your child if you knew they could try to get an acceptance this way?</p>

<p>From another point of view... what would happen, for example, if someone got a football scholarship and stopped playing after one semester?</p>

<p>That's called using a hook, and is a technique known all over the world.</p>

<p>Colleges often admit kids on the basis of some unique talent they might add to the college, but unless a scholarship is based on that talent, there usually isn't much they can do to make the kid keep it up...the student who was president of student council and ran a million clubs might decide in college he wants to get more sleep. Maybe the girls who got in on music auditions will decide they want to major in music after all.</p>

<p>I was admitted with a 3.9565 High school GPA and a 27 ACT and 1210 SAT...</p>

<p>Yes, I would support my kid if they could get into a school that way. I know that even if they planned to switch majors, etc., those plans could fall by the wayside after they matriculated at the university. Anyway, most students change their majors at least once, and many do different ECs in college than they did in high school.</p>

<p>My D is majoring in music. It wasn't her intended major, and she was very upfront about that. She auditioned for music scholarships. The violin teacher came to her and said he would give her more money if she would change her major to music. After weighing pros and cons, we decided that she could go in as a performance major. After two years, if she hated it, she would have enough credits for a BA in music, and could drop the performance aspect and major in something else. She would lose the violin scholarship at that point, but at least we would have had it for two years.</p>

<p>Not only did we encourage our D to go this route, but so did the college. So I see absolutely nothing wrong with it.</p>

<p>Meanwhile, she has discovered that she LOVES spending the vast majority of her day in the performing arts center. Says it amazes her that what used to be her EC is now what she "gets" to do all day, and that she doesn't have to squeeze it in around academics. I have a hunch that she will actually end up with her BMus.</p>

<p>So, perhaps the schools who go into this with eyes wide open know that sometimes kids change their minds in a positive way, too!</p>

<p>I once asked a college counselor who handles athletic apps about Medwell's what-if. He said there is nothing to stop anyone from saying they want to play football, get into a school they ordinarily wouldn't, and immediately quit. BUT he said that sooner or later the credibility of the high school from where these players came would suffer, since there is usually some relationship established with coaches. Though we were talking about using football as a hook to get into an Ivy, not state U.</p>

<p>Lots and lots of kids switch majors in college. Lots and lots of music majors switch OUT of music into other disciplines. I don't see the problem here. These kids earned a spot in the programs to which they were accepted. I will tell you that in my experience...they had to be close to the stats the school required or the music dept would not have been able to lobby for their acceptance.</p>

<p>I understand your queasiness. Seems dishonest. And yet, the more I'm on this board and learn about admissions and its often arbitrary nature, I would say the friends played the game well. And, hey, they might find once they get there that the dept is so wonderful that they'll stick with the program.</p>

<p>They had better be good actors, if in fact they have made their plans known all along to their teachers, friends, and administrators.</p>

<p>Many times, and I don't know about UF specifically, a relationship between student, music department of college, music department of high school and/or private music teacher is forged during the application and audition process. I know of several people who have gone into music at state universities and in all cases, their teachers and directors had multiple contacts with the music department at the prospective colleges on their behalf (either written or phone or both). If the students immediately drop and let it be known that they were just using music as a ploy, and everyone knew it the whole time, it could hurt the high school music department's reputation (or their personal teacher).</p>

<p>If I had a student who was doing this, I'd feel very uncomfortable playing along. </p>

<p>So let's hope they kept this to themselves, or that their music teachers weren't involved if they knew about it, or that they can extract themselves from the music school without pulling a lot of other people's reps down with them.</p>

<p>It's harder with music performance to just 'quietly' drop out. For one thing, you have private teachers involved who you develop a very close relationship with. You can't just disappear off the face of the earth after a semester/year. Somewhere along the line you're going to have to talk to someone, explain what's going on, why you are quitting, etc. These students will either have to lie or will come out with egg on their faces.</p>

<p>Hooks are one thing when you're talking about a highly selective university trying to build a class of varied talents. This is a state university that up until Bright Futures took almost anyone with a pulse, a checkbook and Fla residency. Seems a little sleazy to me Sunny, especially with the bragging and the upfront of no intentions of following music.</p>

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<p>Music performance majors leave the major EVERY YEAR at almost every school. It is not uncommon. There are students who enroll in the BM programs and decide they do not want to continue this major. </p>

<p>Most don't "quietly drop out". They have honest discussions with their teachers about their future plans...and they leave. Every year, there are more students who will audition to replace any that leave. It's not uncommon at all.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Hooks are one thing when you're talking about a highly selective university trying to build a class of varied talents.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The University of Florida is attempting to become one of those universities, and its low list price for in-state students provides the admission office with an opportunity to select as the elites have long selected, with an eye toward building a varied class.</p>

<p>"Most don't "quietly drop out". They have honest discussions with their teachers about their future plans...and they leave."</p>

<p>That was my point- they actually talk to someone about it, so at some point they will have to explain why they are dropping out. Either they will say, "Well, I had no intention of doing it in the first place" (which is the truth), or they're going to have to come up with some story about why they changed their mind.</p>

<p>They can simply say..I don't want to be a performance major anymore. AND that will be that. The only "harm done" would be if this was an influential person in the field and they decided they wanted to reconsider...but even then...not impossible.</p>

<p>At S1's university, when filling out an application for admission the student must indicate which College of the univ. he is applying to and is accepted or denied based on that choice. Of course the most popular majors are the toughest to gain admission to (College of engineering and College of Management) because there is more competition. For years students with lesser stats have gotten in through the"back door" by applying to one of the smaller less in demand Colleges (think Forestry) knowing that they had no interest in that major and would be changing as soon as possible. S2's friend is currently trying this move right now. It can be a risky move since there is a gpa requirement for changing majors. So entrance to the univ. does not guarantee the major switch.</p>

<p>Right Packmom...DD applied to her university as an undeclared Arts and Sciences major. HOWEVER she really wants to be an engineer. She took the engineering sequence as a freshman and declared her major as engineering as a sophomore...in the College of Engineering. She has the grades and the prerequisites to do so. She probably would not have gotten accepted into their college of engineering as an incoming freshman.</p>

<p>Kids switch majors ALL THE TIME. That is part of going to college for many students...in fact MOST students. Most switch majors more than once.</p>

<p>First, as a parent of a degreed performance major, I have to agree with both binx and thumper.</p>

<p>There are often admission spots at general, "lower" level, smaller programs (or in strong, non conservatory level) programs that do offer admission or scholarships to music students, for particular reasons: to fill a studio, satisfy an under represented instrument need, perhaps recognizing that some will not continue. Some schools require they major in music, some do not, but almost all require either continued major or ensemble participation in order to retain their scholarship.</p>

<p>Kids do change their major all the time, for many numbers of varied reasons.</p>

<p>However, to deliberately "game" the system is wrong IMO. It displays a lack of personal ethics and integrity, and may take a spot from a would be music major/minor would is indeed serious about going the distance. It may very well be that the two cited may have continued ethics and integrity issues that will plague them throughout their undergrad and life experiences.</p>

<p>What goes around, comes around. </p>

<p>Unlike sports, music does not have the draw or impact at most schools. I would trust that most schools' admissions deciders know that a percentage of major specific scholarships and admission deciscions in ANY field will involve a level of uncertainty, and in cases outright deception. I also trust they work to realize and minimalize this.</p>

<p>When I was a college prof, the department that I worked in would advocate for strong prospective majors to get the top scholarships that the university offered. Some of those students later switched majors. Sure, we were disappointed because we would have loved to have had those students in our department, but at the same time, we know that students switch majors all of the time, and none were obligated to continue in our major just because we loved them and had advocated with them. I never heard any faculty member hold resentment toward students for switching majors even when the faculty member had personally recruited the student and lobbied to get the student a scholarship.</p>

<p>I'd rather have a promising student try to game the system and therefore be forced to try out the department that to have a promising student never try out the major at all. Odds are that some students who planned to drop the major end up finding out to their surprise that it is something that they enjoy. Their college experience in a subject may be more interesting than their high school experience was.</p>