<p>Beautiful posts, momma-three!</p>
<p>I’m the mother of one Cornell grad and one Cornellian-to-be. He is <em>OMG</em> transferring in this fall. </p>
<p>I would like to note that the <em>transfer</em> had higher GPA and SATs than the one who was admitted ED as a freshman. Cornell was his dream school – and he was deferred, waitlisted, and then offered a GT which he is taking advantage of. </p>
<p>There’s often not a lot of rhyme or reason in admissions at any college – and stats certainly don’t tell the whole story.</p>
<p>Haha, a part of lazykid’s ego sure is tied to Cornell’s rep, not necessarily a bad thing, just makes me chuckle. I am actually planning on transferring. I was bent on transferring to Cornell for the spring because I want to leave my current school as immediately as possible, but I could not pass up my chances with Brown for next fall. The way I view Cornell is as a university compiled of passionate and hard working kids. Every school has rotten apples (not to say the kids that can’t make academically it are rotten haha). My high school stats supposedly showed I was one of those kids. Too bad my current institution doesn’t think so and nominated me for a study abroad program at Oxford. What I am trying to say is, SAT/ACT scores and the like do have holes. They do test on the general knowledge a high schooler planning to enter college should know, but they are far from being the only predictors of future success. Let us not focus on the haters of Cornell, and let us, with the Cornell lovers, laugh and stand awed at Cornell’s humble beginnings, which today promotes its academic excellence, and not the few folk who matriculate only to “seemingly” bring such excellence down. Personally, I love the humble light Cornell exudes, unlike other seemingly arrogant top schools.</p>
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<p>Lookingforward:</p>
<p>Dude, are you really this ignorant?</p>
<p>1) It does not take ‘secondary evidences’, “critical thinking skills” or whatever to figure out that some people in real life hold negative views of Cornell, mainly due to its admissions policies. Since high school, I heard a lot of my classmates and others say things along “Cornell is the worst Ivy”, “Easiest Ivy to get into”, “suicide school”, etc. In measuring a school’s repuation, people’s view of the institution matter. After all, that is what ‘reputation’ implies. Whether Cornell is viewed highly or negatively for each and every individual is a different story, and one that isn’t of concern among posters in this thread. The truth is negative perception of Cornell exists, among sizeable portion of population. Get real. And, no, don’t tell me that I don’t have ‘critical thinking skills’ because I happened to run into a lot of people who made negative remarks about Cornell. (experience shared by many others)</p>
<p>2) Since for tranfer admissions, they don’t even require submission of SAT scores, along with higher acceptance rate compared to freshmen pool, it can be logically deduced that the standards for freshmen and transfers are quite different. If you can’t figure out what I am saying, or yet again resort to saying that my view are ‘hearsay’, I don’t know what to say. Anyone with HALF a brain, I suspect, could understand the point here.</p>
<p>3) If you don’t have any useful or productive counter-arguments to offer (which I haven’t seen from you) I think you should stop posting in this thread, and stop dismissing any concerns or points shared by Cornell alums and students saying that our views are ‘hearsay’ or lack in critical thinking skills. I am afraid you are the one suffering from these symptoms.</p>
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<p>momma-three,</p>
<p>I look fondly of my experience and time at Cornell overall. I met some great friends while there, and learned from some amazingly brilliant professors. Also, I got to date several very nice, outgoing, intelligent, attractive girls while at Cornell. I am appreciative of all these opportunities that Cornell offered me. Yet, I think there are some problems that can be addressed. Whether the concerns I raised regarding Cornell admissions policies is worth the consideration is up to each individual to decide. I think it can be useful to put away rose-colored goggles and look at things with objectivity and skepticism, especially when these issues can damage the institution’s and overall student body’s reputaion or quality. Truth be told, I am not a fan of Cornell’s admissions - both for freshmen and transfers. I think the office needs to adopt a more predictable, standardized, meritocratic, and organized approach towards handling admissions.</p>
<p>Btw, your family must have some serious love for Cornell to have all your three sons become Cornell alums.</p>
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<p>You can’t tell from her posts?! I think it’s great though to have people enthusiastic about their school. </p>
<p>Agreed about all the critiques of not using “critical thinking.” I’m not sure how using one’s own experiences relates to lack of critical thinking. Ideally, yea, I like to use population-wide data when it’s available. But, sometimes you have to combine your own experience from, you know, having actually attended the school with existing data to form your conclusions. I’d rather debate from my experiences of 4 years at Cornell vs. just using a search engine to talk about a school I clearly know nothing about.</p>
<p>^I don’t know where you live but here in New Jersey, Cornell has the same reputation that Harvard or Princeton does. I will say that MIT does seem to have a more impressive reputation which I suspect is because people associate MIT with engineering and most people know that engineering is a tough major. </p>
<p>“Btw, your family must have some serious love for Cornell to have all your three sons become Cornell alums.”<br>
As you could tell we all love Cornell!!
As of now we only have two alums but our oldest is looking forward to attending. BTW he could have easily gone to MIT for grad school but he has chosen Cornell. I don’t think any of my kids would trade fit for other peoples idea of prestige. We don’t worry about perceived ideas of what we view and know to be ignorant. My oldest has never regretted his MIT education but he has never been happier knowing that he will have the opportunity to be at Cornell. </p>
<p>Also I don’t think my glasses are rose colored I think some people still have on their gray shades…I have complete faith that as time passes you will look back on your years and see more sunny skies. </p>
<p>I don’t care if community college students are able to transfer to Cornell. If these students are able to perform in whatever classes or majors they have selected, does it really matter? I see it as a great opportunity for young people to be able to really change their lives. Maybe you have to be my age to see it that way but I really don’t care if there are some transfers that seem academically below par. They will either leave or get booted out, if they can’t make it. Their education does not effect my kids. Cornell will not have a damaged reputation because of a relatively small number of students. In fact if people had any sence they would realize that Cornell does accept a number of transfers and yet their numbers are still high. I would say that is far more impressive than some peer schools who fail to accept CC transfers.</p>
<p>Doode,
- No, it doesn’t take special evidence or analytical skills to accept that some diss Cornell, as you point out in the most recent post.
- BUT, you realize that was not the argument? The argument was whether one’s experience with a few transfers was sufficient evidence from which to extrapolate that there’s a problem with transfers, in general. My fight is against assumptions about all transfers. </p>
<p>It was wave, who referred to one’s personal experience as “secondary evidence,” which has a different legal meaning.</p>
<p>A further example of the rush to categorize: I am not a dude.</p>
<p>We have argued this enough, IMO.</p>
<p>Ps. Norcal, I have no problem with anyone saying they met problem transfers. Just with the too easy acceptance that those observations reflect some “truth” about an entire category (here, GTs.) That’s where critical thinking comes in.</p>
<p>I want to take a gander back at the OP.</p>
<p>What would an adcom consider to be a demonstration of intellectual interest in a particular major? If one were to apply to, say, Cornell CALS, what would you possibly show? What if you have other interests?</p>
<p>What worries me the most is that I have only some high school experiences at medical laboratories and a current internship at a Marine Biotech lab in Baltimore to back myself up. Would they be looking for a specific interest in one particular branch of science, or can I demonstrate an interest in general sciences, like Chemistry, Physics, Biology? Would by other interests be subdued as part of these attempts?</p>
<p>I feel like there is absolutely no particular formula. I’m going to attempt to synthesize all my experiences/passions as a development of my passion of science, but I feel like that is, by far, a long shot.</p>
<p>You are correct, there is no formula. That’s the bad news. Now for the good news – there is no formula!!!</p>
<p>Are you looking for the CALS-environmental program. The internship looks good. Many applicants won’t have that. General interest in the sciences looks good too (assume normal sequence with honors and/or AP). One of the reasons you go to college is to hone your interests.</p>
<p>Many, if not most students DO NOT have amazing accomplishments/research/prestigious prizes, etc. by the time they apply, and I’m pretty sure that most don’t get their first Nobel Prize until somewhere mid Junior year (grin).</p>
<p>Norcal,</p>
<p>I am a Cornell A&S alum who came in as a transfer from what was probably a 4th tier private school. I was a crappy student in high school and l only really got my act together in college. I had a 3.7+ at my university, overloaded on honors coursework in every term, took a very math/science-heavy curriculum and had a list of extracurriculars that could fill an encyclopedia. Cornell was my first choice and I was thrilled to attend. I did well at Cornell and went to work for an I-bank and then to a Top 5 b-school. Looking back, I am eternally grateful for the chance to attend, and it is probably fair to say that I did not embarrass myself at the school. Cornell changed my life in ways that I could have never expected. </p>
<p>Moreso, I knew a lot of transfers at Cornell and everyone had done extremely well. In fact, I would say that most of them had done better than the average. The one caveat I would add is that none of them were NY state transfers. Everyone whom I knew had transferred from lower-ranked private schools or other state universities. These were seriously motivated kids who did not come to mess around. It is fair to say that they had probably dropped the ball at some point in high school, but by the time they got to Cornell, they were different people and their success during and after Cornell validated the school’s decision to accept them. Even more so, I knew many highly qualified people who were rejected for transfer to Cornell (I wasn’t alone in my school going for it).</p>
<p>What puzzles me is that I know there are tons of kids with my types of credentials who would make great additions to the school and instead Cornell admits a lot of these garbage kids from NY-state CCs that can barely crack a 3.0. I understand that most of the free spots are in HumEc-ILR-Ag and a lot of people would prefer a traditional college such as A&S or Engineering. So, why not create a special program that gives people the option of double-majoring between say A&S and Humec. It would allow the school to stop rejecting top-notch applicants to A&S and engineering while making it easy for those kids to attend. The state schools would still be able to make their enrollment numbers. In turn, this would wash out a lot of the subpar CC kids who have no business at Cornell. It is one thing to give people a second chance, but the onus should be on the student to definitively show that the chance is deserved. Diversity should not come at the cost of academic excellence. No “mission” can justify the dilution of quality. If that is the cost of NY state dollars, then myself and other alums would be more than happy to up our donations to remove that issue.</p>
<p>“These were seriously motivated kids who did not come to mess around. It is fair to say that they had probably dropped the ball at some point in high school, but by the time they got to Cornell, they were different people and their success during and after Cornell validated the school’s decision to accept them.”</p>
<p>That is me in a nutshell my friend. Great post.</p>
<p>NYC0205, you and I are in complete agreement. First of all, congrats on your transfer to CAS and your success afterwards. It’s not easy to transfer to CAS and I’m not surprised that if you were able to beat the odds, you were successful at Cornell.</p>
<p>My problem lies with the CC transfers. It makes absolutely no sense to me how someone who slacked off for 4 years AND then chose the easy way by going to a CC instead of a 4-year college could get into Cornell at a higher rate than someone who challenged themselves by going to their state school. That is ass-backwards to me. Why would anyone who wants to transfer to Cornell go to a 4-year college and risk a poor GPA instead of going to their local NY CC and get a practically guaranteed transfer? I do think the answer lies in money (as it usually does), specially funding from NY state. But, if it’s going to dictate admissions policies that much, then perhaps Cornell is more of a state school than we thought.</p>
<p>If the assumption that all CC transfers are not capable, then that’s just pure ignorance. I like how the view is that all CC’s students are considered someone with a low GPA or someone who slacks in high school. Does it knock some sense into people that CC was their only option at the time due to money? Perhaps students are paying for their bills, insurance, and school? Not everyone has the “good” life, so just shut up for once. And oh please, don’t give me how we’re not intelligent enough. Some people are just as good as others, but, they can’t do anything about it due to certain circumstances. The bias is ridiculous and it shouldn’t be assumed that “everyone” is incapable. It’s funny to see how everyone brags about themselves on here. For what? To prove you are superior or something? I can brag about myself all I want, but why should I? I know when I’m a professional, I’m not going to degrade others. Or even as a student, how disrespectful. To me, that’s a sense of immaturity.</p>
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<p>We don’t know if the CC transfer is capable. That’s the issue. If I see someone with a 3.1 HS GPA, 1700 SAT score, and a 3.9 community college GPA, I would have no clue whether they will succeed at Cornell. Some students with this profile succeed but many students don’t. CC just isn’t rigorous enough to distinguish the merely good students from the excellent students. </p>
<p>If you had to go to a CC due to financial reasons, then that’s the price you pay. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Plenty of students go to 4-year universities at extra cost to themselves and their families and take a more challenging curriculum. Why should these students be put at a disadvantage to students who went to their local CC, didn’t assume any debt, and took an easier curriculum?</p>
<p>You make it seem like only CC students make sacrifices. We all have to make sacrifices. At the time I chose Cornell, my dad had been out of a job for a year. I would eventually graduate with 30k worth of debt. I worked every year of college and had 3 different part-time jobs my senior year at Cornell in addition to being a full-time student and preparing to apply to med school. If your family wasn’t willing to pony up the money for you to attend a better school, then I applaud your family for making that difficult choice. But, I still think you should be dinged in transfer apps for going to a CC instead of being rewarded. Like I said, it’s ass backwards.</p>
<p>I think I’m pretty much an example of BOTH arguments:</p>
<p>I had *<strong><em>ty high school grades as I was a *</em></strong>ty high school person, I didn’t care about school - plain and simple. Sound generic enough? I went to community college as that was basically my last resort, however, i DID NOT go there with a predetermined notion to transfer to an Ivy League school and use this supposed “shortcut” to gain admission. I had never thought about that, as I all I wanted to do was get my grades and get out. Fortunately for me, my experience with a variety of different people proved to be the catalyst for self-change. Do I think it was the fact that I was home while my friends were off at 4-year schools? Possibly. Was it maybe because I finally had an inclination to grow up, to realize that ********ting myself would not get me anywhere? Yes. This perspective happened rather quickly (I joined CC in fall of 2009). I was alone, motivated, and plain and simple - I wanted to leave.</p>
<p>It became more than that though, it wasn’t just a rush to get the high GPA and leave. I started to really enjoy myself. I started to make a lot of friends, people who - just as you described, did not do well in high school - but did that matter? No. What mattered was here and now and for me at least, it became learning. This wasn’t something that was forced or rushed or faked and because of THAT, I know that my hard work and good grades were genuine. Cornell only came into the conversation last fall, as I started to look ahead of me at what possible schools would be appropriate for my education. As a person, my life was different - and I’m not even talking about school - in general! I became a bookworm and nerdy and you know what? I lOVE IT! I love when people call me a geek! You know why? Because its just an affirmation that I’m taking this seriously, and if being a bookworm will let me be happy (which it has) then so be it.</p>
<p>I can’t really speak on behalf of other community college students, but the point of this digression was just to allow SOMEBODY see that there are exceptions to the generality.</p>
<p>I know two CC transfer students who transferred to a state university after a semester at Cornell. They were top CC students. I am not making any generalizations about CC students, but how can Cornell distinguish between top CC students who are going to succeed and those who are just going to leave after the first year or barely make it?</p>
<p>I don’t think that the argument here is to exclude ALL CC applicants. The argument is to put those GPAs in proper context. That is what graduate schools do with lower-ranked undergrad schools. There are superb candidates from low-ranked schools and they do get accepted at elite grad schools…that does not mean Joe Schmo with a 3.5 from a low-ranked school gets treated the same as someone with that GPA from University of Chicago, Swarthmore, Cornell Engineering, or Johns Hopkins, etc…</p>
<p>Ultimately, it is about the institution that Cornell wants to become. Its reputation and resources are the product of the work of its best alums, not its worst. If it wants to continue to win the battles for those types of those students, it will have to address the branding issue. Cornell is different…and should be different from the others…but by emphasizing its strengths…its unmatched breadth, its unapologetic focus on how its research can be applied to the local community, its appeal to a much wider audience of students (preppies, NY magnet schoolers, engineering geeks, Hawaiian surfer heads, etc.)…that is what makes it stand out and why I would still go there any day of the week…but, at no point should we mistake being different for being inferior…</p>
<p>Deadhead, </p>
<p>Best of luck to you at Cornell. It has been a while since I first showed up in Ithaca. I will never forget the rush that I had felt when I first got to campus. Even now, after the fortune of other successes, there is nothing like finally crossing that bridge for the first time. It is a privilege to study at the school and you should enjoy every second of it. Cornell offers so much that it is simply overwhelming sometimes as one wants to do everything. From one formerly crappy HS student to another, just remember what got you here…the “new you”…when you first come here, just focus on one thing and one thing only…doing well…you will have plenty of time to do everything else…it is a lot more fun to walk across campus knowing that you have your stuff taken care of…then, you can go to Dino’s with a clean conscience:)…</p>
<p>Congrats again on your acceptance and I hope that you have a wonderful experience in Ithaca…Unfortunately, I only had 2 years…</p>
<p>NYC I appreciate your kind remarks, unfortunately I haven’t been accepted to Cornell as I am applying for this spring ( I would have 2 years as well) but yes, I think your advice is exactly the mentality the I will have for any school I attend (hopefully Cornell). Thank you though!</p>