<p>Norcal. Simple: Cornell isn’t entirely about “academic acumen.”
Oops. Before you flip, it’s part of their mission to fulfill Original Ezra’s intent, partly the founding as a land grant institution and, I am sure, partly current (widespread) notions of sensitivity and opportunity. And, more. </p>
<p>Does it strike anyone that the transfer issue alone is not enough to impact Cornell’ s rep? On the other hand, myth and rumor can be potent and have lives of their own. I wonder, as grads of Cornell, if you shouldn’t be fighting this “image,” rather than adding to the complaints and dissing the U’s decisions. I mean, on behalf of your alma mater as an institution- not just letting people know of your personal successes. ?</p>
<p>I think Cornell needs to decide what it wants to be. An elite institution that is selective and provides the most challenging academic environment or if it wants to live in the past with its “any person any study” motto. You can move in the direction towards Princeton or you can move in the direction of a giant community college. </p>
<p>Any person that wants to brag about their post-grad success, have at it! I’ve met a lot of successful Cornell alums and I love hearing their stories and their appreciation for what Cornell has done for their careers. I’d rather hear people bragging about getting into top 10 law schools after Cornell than hear transfers bragging about getting into Cornell with a 2.3 HS GPA and no SAT scores.</p>
<p>I think that very few who have an informed opinion think of Cornell as anything other than an elite institution, notwithstanding the views of a few on this thread.</p>
<p>Elite in what way? As a graduate institution? Sure. Cornell has excellent graduate programs. It attracts strong graduate students and faculty.</p>
<p>In the undergrad world? Eh. It’s yield and student measures show that it is a step behind the Harvards and Dartmouths of the world. And it really doesn’t have to do with its location. Many of the elite institutions aren’t situated in NYC or Boston. But, they are still able to recruit the best and brightest. I don’t mean students with 2050 SAT scores and laundry-list EC’s. Those are a dime a dozen. I mean the true creme of the crop high school graduates. These students are choosing other colleges because they look at Cornell’s post-graduate success (which is only so-so for a top 20 college) and they look at its reputation as a school with lax entry criteria. Cornell should be working to recruit more top level freshmen instead of expanding its transfer program. It has done very little to make itself desirable to students who have multiple elite schools to choose from. College admissions is a war for the best students. Cornell will continue to take hits on its yield if it doesn’t improve its image.</p>
<p>norcalguy - I think you are so wrong in what you are saying. Cornell doesn’t need to do anything else to try to recurit best of the best. My older daughter ended up at Cornell very unexpectedly. Now 4 years later, we are better prepared to advise our younger daughter. We made a point of touring and reading up on what you may consider to be more elite institutions, but guess what, D2 just keeps on coming back to Cornell. Her school GC is encouraging her to apply to one of those top 3 because they usually took 1 or 2 from her school and she is Val or Sal at her school. Her private counselor is also telling her to shoot for Y. But D2 doesn’t have any issue with image of Cornell, she is giggling tonight because she is going to get an on campus interview and special tour. As a parent, if D2 could be so lucky (if she should decide) as going to Cornell, we would be extemely proud and happy for her.</p>
<p>As far as post graduate success, most of D1’s friends all got into graduate school of their choice and rest are employed at this point. I don’t know how much better Cornell graduates are suppose to do.</p>
<p>Wow. Still judging people that go to community colleges I see? My boyfriend got rejected to Cornell, but got into Princeton okay? He is actually an incoming freshman. So to say that freshman are smarter than transfers? Hmm… let’s see. I helped him with AP Biology and AP Chemistry all the time. I’m not imploring that’s he’s stupid in any way. But, you can’t just make the assumption that all freshman are smarter than transfers. First off, they have no college experience. Yeah, maybe Cornell should be more selective with transfer admissions, but I know damn well that I deserved my spot. Looking forward to some competition actually, should be entertaining.</p>
<p>We’ll have to disagree on this. Cornell is a great school deserving of the best students. I know this. You know this. But, not everyone knows what an awesome school it is. That’s why it should really try to market itself better. With all the negative press about death in the gorges and all the other tragic news, I don’t think Cornell can afford to just sit back.</p>
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<p>It’s not getting its graduates into the best professional schools at the same rate as peer institutions. I don’t think it really has anything to do with the school but rather the caliber of the students themselves. However, this hurts Cornell’s image because HSers often misinterpret the data. I can’t recall how many times I’ve had to defend Cornell’s mediocre med school acceptance rate or its poor ranking in that (very flawed) WSJ study.</p>
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<p>And I didn’t. I’m calling for Cornell to eliminate students with poor academic records, freshmen AND transfer applicant. Although this conversation has become one of the transfer system, in reality, what I’m speaking to is Cornell’s propensity to take students with suspect academic records (whether as a freshman or as a transfer). No offense to you or anyone else, 1 year of 3.9 GPA at a community college is not enough evidence to me that someone can succeed at Cornell. Especially if that person chooses not to disclose their HS SAT scores. It doesn’t mean they’re stupid. It just means they probably shouldn’t be admitted. In one of your other posts, you admitted that the quality of students and competition at your CC was lacking. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t allow any transfers and I certainly don’t know you well enough to judge whether you belong at Cornell. What I’m saying is that Cornell needs to tighten its transfer admissions. And freshman admissions.</p>
<p>Anyway, I’ve enjoyed the discussion. I think we would all like to see Cornell retain its elite status. We just have different ideas of how it should go about doing this.</p>
<p>In real world, I do not mention my academic credentials to any others, unless asked. As a result, I don’t run into many situations in which I have to discuss of Cornell’s image/ perception. In the real world, people don’t really judge you based on where you went to school anyway. What matters is your ability, financial/ career success, and people/ social skills. If some others diss Cornell for its faults, so be it. I’ve got much better things to worry about in life. What concerns me, though, is Cornell’s admissions policy being - unfair. I have discussed, in length, about why I think this is the case, so no need for repetition.</p>
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<p>Many people more than “very few” hold on to their opinion that Cornell is a ‘lesser’ Ivy - the perception that was derived, in large part, out of its questionable admissions policies.</p>
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<p>You should learn not to take others’ views or arguments too personally. Nobody is sticking a gun to your head for being a transfer, or mocking you. The discussion of transfer admissions, and its questionable policies at Cornell, is credited due to highly differing standards used for freshmen and transfer admissions.</p>
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<p>It can do better, certainly. </p>
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<p>There are too many clueless people out there in the world. Getting a top job or getting into a top professional program are largely a function of an individaul effort and ability. I know, for law school admissions, that UG name on your transcript doesn’t matter much at all. 4.0 from University of Tulsa beats out a 3.5 from Harvard, 99.9% of the time.</p>
<p>This is the problem. Looking through the acceptance threads, it’s clear that Cornell for some reason rejects the Princeton-quality kids while accepting tons of community college transfers who don’t even send in their SAT’s. Now, don’t get offended, cause I am in no way implying that you’re not qualified or that all cc transfers are not deserving. If you just look at the “secondary evidence” mentioned before and add in personal experience, it’s easy to see that overall, the transfers are indeed lacking in quality than the freshmen; I’ll even admit that a lot of freshmen get in with below avg stats for some odd reason.</p>
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<p>I feel ya man. Cornell gets a LOT of flak for having laxer admissions standards. I get ****ed whenever people say stuff like “anyone can get in there”. The sad thing is, they’re right. I’m pretty sure most people who can get a 3.7+ at a NYS community college can easily transfer over if they apply to one of the contract colleges. I read somewhere that Cornell even made pacts with some of the state schools to accept a lot of their transfers, which just shocks me. I seriously doubt it’s cause of their tuition money, but if it is, I really don’t know what to say.</p>
<p>As norcalguy mentioned, as Cornell moves on, it can either go in the direction of Princeton or a huge state school. Judging by its previous & current policies and actions, (mainly the plans to increase the already overpopulated student body), I feel as if it’s going in the state school direction, and nothing will change until the heads of administration have an epiphany (which probably means nowhere in the foreseeable future).</p>
<p>You’re right. In life, how one actually presents himself can impress more than the source of the college degree. Or, not. No matter where you find yourself post-college. IMO, there are some mighty flimsy arguments going on here. Try to remember, on a forum, “You are what you write.” </p>
<p>“But, I know transfers who-” or “I was at a birthday part in Chicago” or “Looking at acceptance threads” or referring to “secondary evidence” when all you have is a few people’s personal observations (which is not what “secondary evidence” is)…all these make me wonder where critical thinking skills fit in. How they were honed- or not. (They certainly matter in med or law careers, no matter where one attends professional school.) Or, is someone leg-pulling? </p>
<p>I have been shaking my head trough the last few pages. *I know, for law school admissions, that UG name on your transcript doesn’t matter much at all. 4.0 from University of Tulsa beats out a 3.5 from Harvard, 99.9% of the time. * Say what? This is the sort of unsubstantiated statements I am referring to.</p>
<p>To Lavender: I like your spirit. Make the most of your ed opps at Cornell. Never stop growing, polishing, inquiring.
To Oldfort: best of luck to D2.</p>
<p>Thank you. I will take advantage of research and internships. My Cornell Tradition allows me to do these things at no cost. I am looking forward to the opportunity. Most of all, I am excited to take the most interesting courses ever that are not offered anywhere else!</p>
<p>Doesn’t Cornell have, a moral at least, responsibility to NY State and its citizens given its founding as a land grant institution and the continued state funding of ~half the schools at Cornell?</p>
<p>I don’t know why this is unsubstantiated at all, the remark I made about law school admissions policies. It is universally accepted that law school adcoms love seeing high numbers, and GPA and LSAT are all that matter.</p>
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<p>I am not sure what critical thinking skills have to do with real life experiences and encounters. “Actions speak louder than words.” Think about what this implies in this context. One’s ideas, perceptions, and beliefs are shaped more out of direct life experiences, rather than reading through random papers or those ‘evidences’ you speak of. </p>
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<p>I am happy with Cornell’s administration - except the admissions office. They seem to have little clue of what they are doing, and I suspect they have little interest in the school’s and student body’s goodness. In freshmen admissions, they reject tons of high academic achievers citing ‘holistic admissions’, and then go on to admit a bunch of transfers who don’t even submit SAT scores. Not only is this process unfair, unpredictable, and disorganized, one could argue this kind of admissions policies hurt the institution’s reputation and quality, among other possible negative consequences. </p>
<p>Cornell is a great research university, with top faculty and top notch academics. Cornell deserves a strong leadership with regards to its admissions office branch. Over the years, Cornell got lots of negative publicity and perception, largely due to two things 1) myth about suicides, 2) questionable admissions policies. I believe it is to Cornell’s advantage to address both of these issues, and it is going to take a lot of effort and strong leadership to back up.</p>
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<p>Just don’t mention that you go to Cornell. Become a hot-shot Ibanker/ corporate lawyer, make 250-300k a year, live models and bottles, drive an M3, and all the respect. At that point, who cares where you went to UG? In real world, only high school kids or unimpressive college grads take interest in discussing a college’s rep.</p>
<p>*I am not sure what critical thinking skills have to do with real life experiences and encounters. “Actions speak louder than words.” Think about what this implies in this context. One’s ideas, perceptions, and beliefs are shaped more out of direct life experiences, rather than reading through random papers or those ‘evidences’ you speak of. *</p>
<p>I defintely think someone is having a bit of fun with us.</p>
<p>My two sons are Cornell grads class of 2011. Their experiences at Cornell have been nothing short of amazing and humbling. Their memories of Cornell will be part of who they are, and have shaped who they have become. It is rare to encounter a grad from Cornell who looks back on their time at Cornell and Ithaca with anything other than the fondest of memories or the deepest respect for the education they have received at Cornell. It is unusual to hear a fairly new alum speak in a negative tone, and I could assure the new admits and prospectives that the opinion of one or two alums with some type of axe to grind is not typical of the majority of students who have attended Cornell. It is unfortunate that some former students must display their disrespect and disregard for one of the finest universities in the world. Most students who have attended Cornell would never think to trash the mission of the school, and in fact it is a mission that most believe should be supported and continued. Cornell is different from the other Ivy’s and top schools, and that is what makes it the magical place it is to study your butts off.</p>
<p>I would guess that some alum who might be amazingly brilliant might find it offensive that they are in the same school as a transfer from a CC but again most students are too humble to even care enough about how other students got their start and instead realize how fortunate each and everyone of them are to be there. </p>
<p>It is important to follow your hearts, and attend the school that speaks to you. It was five years ago this week that my sons who probably were excellent candidates for most of the top 15 schools visited and chose Cornell. They did’nt choose it because it was an Ivy league school, although they were looking for a very academically challenging environment. They chose Cornell because of the combination of factors that make it so unique. There really is no other school that has the same vibe that Cornell has, and IMHO there is no other school that has the natural beauty right there on a campus. It has not even been two months since graduation, and both of my sons miss it tremendously, and that is not because they have nothing else going on… it is because they have so much going on. If your life is full with good friends, and family, a good amount of success, and a good self esteem than your time at Cornell will be remembered as nothing short of wonderful. In fact you will forget those cold walks as being bitter, and they will bring a smile to your face. You will remember walking up that hill to get the lowest grade you ever earned on a pre-lim, and yes that too will bring a smile because you know you have shared that very same experience with thousands and thousands before you. </p>
<p>To the entering class: Enjoy the amazing school that you are about to embark upon. You will meet great friends many of whom are far more talented than you, and the beauty of that is that you might never know all of the accomplishments of the people you will call your dorm mates first year. You see Cornell is not like some other peer schools (I have a son who graduated MIT) in that one of the most unique aspects of Cornell is the student body. Their brillance is not only measured in scores and GPA but in their personal attributes and successes that make each student so unique. My sons have never shared what they believed made them great candidates to Cornell. They did’nt need to. They had nothing to prove, and even if they did who were they going to prove it to…other students with gifts and talents that matched or surpassed their own. </p>
<p>Most of you reading this thread are either attending, want to attend or have attended Cornell. You know why you made that choice. If you have to explain it to anyone than it is not a school for them…thats OK there is someone else just dieing to get in. Cornell has nothing to prove to anyone. It stands alone as one of those unique places that make it possible for any student to study almost anything.</p>
<p>^Cornell should employ you to write their brochures lol If only half the students at the school can write as articulately as you. But, I always enjoy the positive posts you write about Cornell. Hopefully, Cornell knows what its doing and doesn’t lose sight of its peers in its effort to be “unique.”</p>
<p>Norcal…Don’t lose site of the varying gifts that people have. One of my sons can’t write if his life depended on it, but his grammer is perfect. He is very talented in his area, and was hired to do a job that people in their thirties and forties, with far more experience, were interviewing for. He is now working in the United Emirates on a two year contract that I suspect will be extended, and he will turn 22 in a few months. </p>
<p>My other son just started at his job at a well known bank. He is quiet and reserved, and was probably an average student at Cornell, except that he worked 40 to 60 hours a week for Cornell doing something pretty outstanding. If you met either of my two sons on campus you would never guess what they had going for them, and they would likely not impress someone who was at the top of the Cornell heap. They are probably the least pretentious people I know, other than my oldest son who graduated MIT. I guess the point that I am making is that most Cornell students don’t wear their successes on their sleeve because they know they are standing next to another student with huge talents that have either surfaced or are developing. </p>
<p>I thank God everyday that Cornell saw my sons potential because at 17 they just seemed like nice kids who were smart. During their four years they grew and developed into the people they are today, and I am sure this is still the beginning of much to come.</p>
<p>It is my belief that when you enter Cornell you are a baby, and within a very short time you are changed forever. You develop a sense of who you are, and what you want, and this happens not only because of the great education but because of the great student body. Are some students seemingly not as prepared as others…that is possible, and also likely, as is the case in other top schools. I am sure some students at the top of the heep would have selected other kids with higher board scores than my sons, but I am grateful they were not the ones making the decisions. You see whoever sat in that room making the decisions changed the lives of my sons. I will forever be the most grateful mom because Cornell is where my sons belonged, and I am a huge supporter of fit when it comes to college. I have shared this before on other posts but my oldest son was not nearly as happy at MIT, although he is thankful for his education. He loved Cornell and he should have studied there. It is not too late because he will attend Cornell for grad school.
Whenever I walk on the Cornell campus I am transported to a place where I know anything is possible. It can’t be changed, because that is what makes it the place it is. It is not Harvard or Princeton, and it will never be a Columbia or a Brown. I thank God it isn’t because my sons needed Cornell. They needed to work hard, and to be able to play equally hard. They also needed to be in the beauty that only Cornell has. I often feel sorry for the students attending Columbia (an example) after those long days of studying the only place they get to relax… kick back, and go for a run is at a nearby park where you need to watch your back. Their weekends consist of nights in the city, which is wonderful but not very undergrad in feeling. Cornell offers everything and the mix of difficult academics and natural beauty could never be duplicated by a Columbia, Harvard, Princeton…you get the point. I have no fear that Cornell will always be the great school that it is because it appeals to those who want somthing different. </p>
<p>Norcal…Cornell has allowed you the opportunity to pursue your dream and attend med school. How blessed you are!</p>