Advice for a concerned dad? (College ideas)

<p>Sally305, if this kid didn’t have a perfect ACT score, I would agree. That is a “special accomplishment”. I think her list looks pretty good. She may not get in everywhere, but if the GC discussed special circumstances without referencing her diagnosis and her trend is really good, she has a shot at even some of the higher ranked schools on her list.</p>

<p>not to mention setting her up for the emotional consequences of rejection. Sorry to be so blunt. Perhaps others will be more encouraging.</p>

<p>Have to agree. If she’s vulnerable for depression, then I would try to keep possible rejections to a minimum…and I’d try to get some “rolling admissions” acceptances (of schools that she likes) in the pocket NOW…to soften any rejections blows.</p>

<p>I may have missed the answer…but could the wife “take” half of that college savings?</p>

<p>The OP’s first post said he didn’t want her to have too many rejections. </p>

<p>There have been numerous posts on this site about students with perfect scores and tremendous accomplishments being rejected by top schools…and these are kids with much higher GPAs.</p>

<p>Yes, but I often think those kids are being rejected because they are “single dimensional”. Flat Stanleys, if you will. Or they are talking the top five schools, which this poster is not applying to.</p>

<p>If you want her to have something completely in the bag now, does she like any of the schools (that you can afford) in these lists?</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1562918-updated-list-schools-auto-admit-guaranteed-admission-criteria.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1562918-updated-list-schools-auto-admit-guaranteed-admission-criteria.html&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-20.html#post16451378[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1348012-automatic-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-20.html#post16451378&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I don’t get why you would be looking at “super reaches” for a fragile gal. (And one who may not do well with rejections.) Too many already just think about March of senior year and forget what sort of pressures exist at those same super reaches, once you’re there. The focus can’t be just on the admit- it has to include what happens during those 4 years- academically, in experiences and personally.</p>

<p>As for gpa, wherever the competition is fierce, there is no magic about a high ACT. Adcoms want to see overall success in a balance of challenges. There is no singular magic in a high score- remember: holistic.</p>

<p>I’d just like to clear up that I don’t think she’s fragile, per say. I just don’t want her to get rejections from every school besides her three safeties after working so hard on essays for so many. That would dampen anyone’s spirit.</p>

<p>Besides scores, D has placed internationally in an organization of which she is now VP of, has 500+ of comm service (she really loves it), has had a psych internship at Stanford since Freshman year, and is ranked in the top 3% of music students in CA, among other things. I’m hoping these ECs add some dimension to her app as a whole.</p>

<p>@ucb thanks for the list! I’ll look through the schools with D tonight.</p>

<p>I’d just like to clear up that I don’t think she’s fragile, per say. I</p>

<p>Of course, she’s your child and you know her best, but as adults it’s sometimes hard to predict these things. </p>

<p>It sounds (to me) that she now has a broken or injured relationship with her mom (the reason for the marriage split). That has to be messing with her mind a bit. Kids have a hard enough time dealing with parents splitting, but if the reason had something to do with what was going on between mom and her, then that’s a whole 'nuther issue…and a very serious one. </p>

<p>Adding a bunch of school rejections on top could be another big blow.</p>

<p>Apologies if this is off, but the way you previously described her, some time ago, I thought she seemed quite fragile. My D2 went through trials and tribulations, maybe four years worth- and I know the great urge to think all is now hunky dory- or that the light is finally shining at the other end of the tunnel. I rode the roller coaster. I didn’t really breathe easily about mine til she started 3rd year of college.</p>

<p>When you say you hope her assets “add some dimension,” it does sound like you hope she can achieve a certain tier of admissions. I hope this is what she is truly ready for, not jut the CC admissions thing. I sincerely wish you and her the best. Just keep your eyes and heart open.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>This may be part of the problem. All the schools to which she’s applying should be schools at which she’d be happy. Personally, I hate the term “safety” because it makes a school sound close to worthless, as if it’s a place from which only a relative idiot would be rejected. I prefer the term “likely.”</p>

<p>Why not add a couple more target/match schools and thin out the reaches? </p>

<p>As to her mental health issues, I would suggest that her GC write that she “experienced some health issues” during the time she was getting poor grades. It’s possible that the GC will get a few inquiries as to what that means, but I think the vast majority of schools will take the GC at his or her word and accept the undifferentiated diagnosis as a mitigating factor without needing to know exactly what her health issues were. Hopefully her more recent grades and her test scores will speak to her ability. She may do best at schools that take a more holistic, less stats driven approach to admissions.</p>

<p>For the most selective schools, it often depends on what else she is doing besides school.</p>

<p>I will add to the enthusiasm for Clark. I remember being in an Ivy admissions office and another family was talking about how much they loved Clark. It was perfect. Clark has a very accepting and supportive vibe, and has a great town gown relationship with Worcester. In fact, the school that Clark provides for the community has won awards.</p>

<p>I am thinking that if she is ranked in the top 3% of music students in your state, then it would be beneficial to focus your search on schools that have a non- competitive and supportive music department - a college where there are plenty of music groups for her to participate in. Listen to the recordings of the concerts - you can get a sense of the level of the music. I think someone who is talented in music will thrive in a college that has a strong music department (even if they do not major in music). Just another approach for you to consider…</p>

<p>If you are worried about rejections, I would add a non-binding early action. Have you considered Lewis and Clark? She’d have an excellent shot.</p>

<p>@lookingforward, I meant she is stronger now, but I agree that she is fragile, or has been for the past year or so. Sorry if I sounded accusatory! By "add some dimension " I simply meant that I hope the school sees her passion in what she does, and doesn’t stop at the GPA. This goes for almost any school - I’ve seen incredible people rejected from their likelies, I just wouldn’t want that to happen.</p>

<p>@Sue, I like the term "likely " as well - Santa Cruz and Oregon are by no means worthless! D has said she’d be happy to attend either of them. This thread has given me a lot of ideas for match schools, and I agree that telling the GC to mention health issues is probably the best way to approach the subject of depression.</p>

<p>Music is something she really doesn’t want to give up in college, so we are looking at some LACs with good music programs. USC has an amazing one, of course, as do LA, Barnard, and Michigan. Will be looking at some more match schools with strong music programs, and maybe switch out some of the reaches.</p>

<p>Ok, now that I know you have done a splendid job saving for her, and she wants to be active in music, a few things come to mind. My personal track is more southern and MidAtlantic-- which is not really in my mind ideal geographically for you. </p>

<p>If she is a senior and has not done any evaluative interviews, once you get a list going, she can sign up about now for Alum interviews in many cases even if evaluative interview windows are closed. These are great practice experiences and learning experiences. It is like speed dating, with the necessity of remaining uber polite, sincere and complimentary at all times. The student gains impressions of a college through one person’s eyes and the student shows up for the interview with a positive regard for Colleges XY and Z. All good. Our Vandy son ended up applying for about 6-7 things over 4 years on campus including interviews with about a 30% acceptance rate. He says all those interviews made a big diff in his ability to sign up for things at college that required interviews and included a high risk of rejection. Try to be light hearted about alum interviews.
It is easy to be lighter of heart when you like your Likely (love that term…it is much better than safety) Attaching to your Likely is the key to your mental health in this journey!!</p>

<p>Both of my sons were regional symphony quality musicians and not good enough for state wide groups or conservatory type groups. So your daughter is altogether in a diff category. However for Duke son, playing one or two evenings a week and even taking private lessons was like an anti-depressant for him. Very very important to his mental health. Loved his performances with his symphony and yet they were not that demanding. Many students backed off their instrument regimen in college and focused on social lives or labs or new things. In fact most students left their instruments locked up in lockers in the music building and didn’t practice at all between evening rehearsals unless they were first chairs. Very soulful way to spend an evening with a conductor they all admired. He was happy as a middling chair in a fun and good Duke symphony that was not a conservatory quality group. They did one big out of town charity cancer fund raiser together a year.<br>
So my word up on this aspect is to make sure you convey to your daughter that music matters for fun and comradeship if she is not pursuing her instrument in college to a conservatory level degree, she should be informed on options for playing in groups that are not music major groups.<br>
We actually looked for orchestras Duke son could qualify to have a chair in. That eliminated for him: Rice, Vanderbilt and even UVA where the symphony turned out to be Town Gown with fewer seats for middling players. He could see himself in the William and Mary symphony happy as can be however. Duke son loved Bowdoin but was disappointed back in his day that there was no symphony. Rice had a second tier orchestra that conservatory majors directed that would have been at second son’s talent level.<br>
For BM and Haverford students, there is a constant shuttle van between the two colleges…seems like it is called BiCo (would have to google and look) and if I recall music rehearsals and performances were at Haverford while Theater was at BM where Katherine Hepburn graduated along with Grace Kelly. </p>

<p>Haverford is a top ten LAC, so you have to consider it as a big reach if you are doing reaches at all. And females tend to apply to LACs in higher numbers than males. Just a heads up on that little factor that is not kind to my sex.</p>

<p>A young lady who is at Davidson now applied to many colleges and took a tour of many of them with her mother. I would like to mention Rhodes College in Memphis. Also they were so in love with Kenyon College in Ohio and remarked to me many times that they never met nicer people (it is also a classic campus right out of a movie). A very good place to get a solid start. They also felt that the kids at Grinnell were super. And I have always heard that Carlton is rigorous but also has an exceptional loving faculty/student connection. These smaller colleges’ singing and musical groups tend to travel musically on the college’s dime to tour over winter break to play. A very bonding social time for students. I know Davidson groups tour over winter break. </p>

<p>Davidson is very rigorous…and piles on work but also has very intimate classrooms and loving adults on campus. Tends to attract very kind idealistic respectful students. No greek life for women which is sort of the sexist thing on some southern campuses but they have Eating Clubs for women that I really like instead. Because after freshman year you can join any Eating Club you like…no discrimination. Gives the girls a family like evening meal and they are involved with planning their menus. Gives them a break from the dining hall year in and year out. (Hmmm…Haverford had apartments on campus for older students and they often cooked together).<br>
Your daughter’s GPA could be a deal breaker at Davidson or Haverford plus both places like to do interviews. Davidson’s are supposedly informational and Haverfords are done by upperclass trained students and are evaluative. Both schools are top 10 so we are talking reaches but your daughter could probably contribute to their laid back music groups and her ACT is nothing to sneeze at. The Davidson dean has been heard to say that they are most like Haverford than any other college if any comparisons are to be made. Davidson has been a tough admit of late because they just went to the No Loans in your aid package category thus bringing in many more applicants.</p>

<p>Colby…wonderful family like community…have a Californian who went there we love. Bowdoin…I really liked those kids…and what a community. No Greeks. The Greek houses had been converted to Social Houses where everyone was welcome. </p>

<p>I am not informed about the LACs on the West Coast but I have heard about Reed, Pitzer, Pomona, Pacific and a few others. Perhaps you should be seeking a private college with a decent music life for your accomplished daughter on your side of the USA. </p>

<p>Anyway, wishing you well as you sift through and make some choices with her. My sons learned a lot about themselves in this process in more of discovery experience than in any way that I could have predicted. Disappointment is part of the package for all but must be managed and minimized.</p>

<p>I have always heard this shorthand formula for mental health and I teach it to my sons. A high opinion of others and a good opinion of self.</p>

<p>Model this for her…for the next six months. Admire and praise all these college communities, people who help her in her high school, her reference writers, the alum no matter how flawed they actually are… view the college search as an excuse to tour USA culture and keep open hearted. For her, keeping it simple and not anxiety driven will be important. Likelies should dominate. Frankly the excellence of the people teaching at Likelies and Reaches is very comparable and equal! Visualize visualize a fulfilling life at your match colleges, and throw her hat into a couple/three longer shots. She will need a parent who can help her buffer the intense chatter that will go on among seniors about their hopes and crushes and disappointments. You will be there to steady her with the long view. good luck</p>

<p>Fightingirish, you need to find schools that have Music for kids who are NOT music majors. </p>

<p>My kiddo wanted to continue taking lessons and playing in an orchestra in college. That was the hardest criteria to fill on her list. Some smaller schools only have ensembles for music majors. Some schools had great music departments and also had ensembles for non-majors. Some schools had great music programs for majors only. You need to ask. Our kid emailed all of the music department chairs, the orchestra director, and the instructor for her instrument for EACH college she was interested in. Some schools fell OFF of the initial list because they said NO to having a non-major in their ensembles, and they didn’t have enough students for an ensemble for non-majors (e.g. college of Charleston, and Elon).</p>

<p>But there are PLENTY of colleges out there that DO welcome non-majors and have ensembles that include them!</p>

<p>Good luck with the hunt!</p>

<p>Have you done any college visits to schools that for sure will accept your D? If not, you should. Your D needs to like some match/safety schools that will accept her.</p>

<p>A while ago, you had a thread with some significant concerns. Please…don’t forget those concerns…and look closer to home.</p>

<p>Yeah, now I remember this situation. The OP’s daughter’s friend committed suicide near the beginning of the year, and we spent 11 pages giving advice on safe, nurturing environments for her. But here we are, back to recommending highly competitive, intense environments just because the girl is smart and got a perfect ACT score. </p>

<p>Here are some details provided by the OP in the previous thread:

</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1451987-worried-about-my-daughter.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1451987-worried-about-my-daughter.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>So really nothing seems to have changed since January except the girl has been working through her grief, her grades have taken a bigger hit, her abilities (and possibly the pressure on her) has resulted in a perfect ACT store, and her parents have separated. I’m sorry but I think both parents are trying to force-fit her into the prestige-school category, not just the mom. I don’t live in a place like he described but I imagine it is VERY hard to give up on the dream when everyone else seems focused on the same thing. I feel for the OP’s daughter having to deal with this on top of everything else she has been through, and hope things work out for her.</p>

<p>Op - we are from n.california. My kid has decent grades (4.2 +/ 2200+). Our admission counselor said UcB,ucla,ucsd are all reaches. I am surprised by this, but apparently! there is a max number of kids that they will take from any one school (I though quotas were illegal). Pick realistically, and have a lot of backups. I have learnt that nothing is guaranteed. I can understand the academic pressure cooker environment that you allude to. We are in the same boat and have had our share of suicides in our school. I hope your daughter is doing better now.</p>