Advice for Mom please - daughter wants to move off campus

Parents Forum
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<p>Chiming in to say agree with most. My H and I rented out a student condo to four girls at a university and had parents co-sign--we would not accept just the girls. One girl moved out halfway through year and the other parents at first didn't think they were responsible for the 1/4 missing. But of course they were. They did pay, just didn't want to. Always, always read the contract.</p>

<p>H rented off campus at UPenn from sophomore year on (HATED living in the dorm, and in any case there wasn't room--years ago, may not be the same) and would recommend never renting with more than 2 other people, and not with people you don't know. He came out of the womb complete with a heightened sense of responsibility so of course was always the one dealing with utilities and cleaning up and such, like roommates not paying.</p>

<p>One girl, you know her parents? Not the animal house? Sounds good to me. Just curious, do you know her instrument?</p>

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<p>flute - she's very good</p>

<p>Good point about the lease. It is a good price for two and she would be saving. if she ended up on her own it would be more expensive than the dorms. I don't think there are laundry facilities. Have texted her to check on average monthly utilities, laundry, internet access, security.</p>

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<p>When I asked my s if he missed any part of living in the dorms he said, "Ahhh..... (long pause) free toilet paper?"</p>

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<p>My daughter has to supply her own toilet paper :D But it is free because she just grabs a big pack whenever she comes home. (her Dad is a SAMS fanatic)</p>

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<p>It's a good idea to find out as much as you can about the landlord or management company before signing a lease.</p>

<p>My son has been living off-campus for two years in a large building (1000 tenants, all students, in 2-person or 4-person apartments) that is run by some of the most incompetent people I have ever encountered. About halfway through his stay there, the management company was replaced by an entirely different management company, which proved to be just as inept as the first one. </p>

<p>The only saving grace is that the building is only three years old, and therefore not too many things are falling apart yet. Right now, the main problem is that the management people can't keep the paperwork and finances straight. But heaven help the kids who live there a few years from now, when things start to break.</p>

<p>swimcatsmom, I wonder whether my son and his three roommates even have toilet paper. He has never "borrowed" any during visits home, even though he makes a point of stocking up on other stuff, like shampoo and detergent and allergy pills.</p>

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<p>Definitely have her check cost of utilities. Internet can be expensive. Also if she wants cable TV. I know that for now my D is not having TV. But the last apartment she lived in the other girl had the most expensive TV package and internet and my D's half was more then she wanted to spend.</p>

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<p>Don't forget to add in the cost of renter's insurance; your homeowner's policy may not cover her stuff if she's not in a dorm. Also, make sure you know who's responsible for maintenance such as mowing the lawn or shoveling the driveway and walkway (if she's in such a climate). If it's the tenants' responsibility, and they fail to do it and someone gets hurt, they could be liable.</p>

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<p>As mentioned, your review of utilities should include both cable tv and internet access. Combined tv/internet/phone access can be had in many areas, but even at the lower levels is not necessarily cheap. (Son's tv/internet averaged about $80+/month in metro Hartford without any premium or upgraded channels). Computer use/access could be a problem with one connection and two students depending on needs and schedules. You may need a second connection, or a tech savvy friend with router skills.</p>

<p>Do not install a land line for telephone unless abolutely necessary. For most college students, the cell phone is sufficient. If one insists, that should be completely their financial responsibility.</p>

<p>Consider heat, hot water and a/c needs. Try and avoid rentals where heat is in addition to the rent charges as the rising costs of oil, gas and electricity can wreak havoc on a budget.</p>

<p>Most colleges do have a commuter meal plan. Son found it a very effective supplement to his own cooking. Cooking skills/talents are a consideration if student does not enjoy or is inept at meal prep, their easiest option is to order out. This quickly adds expense. I have both s & d, and each was equally guilty... much of their disposable income disappeared via eating/ordering out. </p>

<p>Look at lease buy out provisions/penalties. Son was able to graduate early, and subletting prohibited. The buyout after 9 months was half the cost of paying the remaining three months rent. Be sure to follow procedures in the lease agreement if this option is available.</p>

<p>Figure transportation costs and methods to and from school, shopping, errands if student does not have a vehicle.</p>

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<p>Find out if the two girls' approach to cigarette smoking inside the house is compatible. My D is currently having a devil of a time with a roommate who agreed not to smoke inside, but now does, heavily. The landlady, who represented it as a non-smoking apartment to my D, is too intimidated to intervene...it's a mess. Apartment is unliveable. Lesson learned: Put any agreements regarding smoking in writing on the lease, or make a separate written agreement between the girls and sign it.</p>

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<p>Swimcatsmom,</p>

<p>I guess I'm on the other side than most folks here. I picked up on this from one of your posts: </p>

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<p>This was my situation exactly in college! After two years in boarding school, I survived my freshman year in the dorm, but made it only to Thanksgiving my sophomore year before crying uncle - I <em>had</em> to get out! I begged my mom to let me move into an apartment. I was on a campus that was almost 100% residential, though, so I had to move into an apartment by myself. My mother was worried to death, and I had a few times I felt afraid, but on the whole, I was incredibly happy!!!! You've got to realize, that for kids coming from a boarding school, dorm life is not a novelty and is getting very, very old.</p>

<p>I did get involved in extracurriculars and that was my main source of friends and entertainment. When I was lonely, I called friends and picked them up to go shopping or out to dinner, or to spend the night at my apartment - I did this a lot :-) . I just loved being on my on and lived by myself in apartments until I married a few years later.</p>

<p>I think the situation is very different when someone has been away from home 3 years (for boarding school and freshman year) versus 1 year (freshman year).</p>

<p>All that said, the caveats others shared about leases and commitments are important, too.</p>

<p>Let us know what you all decide!</p>

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<p>My son roomed with a music major part of his freshman year, and they never were able to do much together. Much of the "homework" done by a music major is to practice their instrument, and I believe that is usually done in a practice room in the music building. So I am guessing that her path will cross much less with this roommate than it would with someone in a different major. If she likes peace and quiet that may be good, but if she is looking for social interaction then maybe not.</p>

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<p>The campus culture counts a lot- if most sophomores are moving out of the dorms it is different than if most continue in dorms. A roommate whose parents you trust sounds positive, as does the two students not being best friends. No problem with friendship expectations that don't match. If the other student is serious about her music she is studious- a good sign. It may be easier if each woman has her own life and isn't depending on the roommate for support. Be sure to go through all the rental concerns mentioned above with your daughter. I suspect that she knows a bit about this person from how she behaved in HS and may trust her. I'll have much more wisdom after next year- son and 4 other guys in a 3 year old place with a no smoking, fines for noise compaints building, parents had to cosign... I was able to read all about the management's lease and other rules online- waiting for son to let us know who the guys are during spring break. It's scary but less so than imagining him starting grad school in a strange city and having to learn everything about apt life at the same time. I'm learning some nice things about my son as I made sure he knew what he was getting into.</p>

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<p>Thank you for all the helpful advice and insights - keep it coming :D</p>

<p>huguenot - I think you have hit the nail on the head. She is really sick of dorm living after already doing it for 2 years at high school.</p>

<p>Lots of things to think about that had not crossed my mind yet. I don't think this girl smokes but definitely something to inquire about as my daughter hates cigarette smoke. And she needs to take into all the possible expenses and inconveniences - internet, renters insurance, internet, laundromat, is there good parking etc - and the social aspects. I don't think there will be much socializing with the potential apartment mate as she is a very busy girl.</p>

<p>My current inclination is to share a lot of the pros and cons with her but ultimately let her make her own decision - making sure she realizes she will be locked in by that decision, good or bad, for the school year. She is about to turn 19 after all. (I got married a month after my 19th birthday - at least that is not on the cards yet). She and I are going to the theater and dinner tomorrow so I am sure the subject will be discussed. Not sure if Dad will be as willing to let her make her own decision. I will let you know how it all turns out.</p>

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<p>This is such a personal decision. I can tell you what we did with a son and daughter. Son two years in dorm and then an apartment with three guys. He loved it and at that time he had to move off campus junior year, but it was UCLA, so his apartment was a block from campus, almost like a dorm.
Daughter wanted out after the first year. We had an agreement that she would live on campus two years. She had two friends who wanted her in an apartment, but we felt the area was bad, the girls had boyfriends who wanted to stay over, and we said no way. Dorm life is a little more restricted where she is than an apartment, and they have good ra's who will kick boyfriends out after hours, so at least for now it is the dorm. We will revisit this discussion at the end of this year. Good luck!</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Much of the "homework" done by a music major is to practice their instrument, and I believe that is usually done in a practice room in the music building.

[/quote]

I'm not sure if this would apply to a small instrument such as the flute, easily played in an apartment. But this is another question I would ask the girl - does she intend to practice at home? And at what hours? While a good musician can make a splendid roommate, listening to one practice the same four bars for hours on end can drive anyone bananas! (Yes, my h is a musician, and I've had to do so!)</p>

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<p>I think the music major will want to practice in the apartment and the roomate will want some sound cancelling headphones.</p>

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<p>re renter's insurance. Check your homeowner's policy- I distinctly remember being covered by my parents' policy while living in apts as a medical student (there's a Valentine's Day break in and theft of not much of any value story there).</p>

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<p>Yes, our homeowners policy covers the belongings of students living away from their primary residence (our home).</p>

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<p>In response to MidwestMom2kids who wrote: <i think="" the="" music="" major="" will="" want="" to="" practice="" in="" apartment="" and="" roomate="" some="" sound="" cancelling="" headphones.="">:</i></p><i think="" the="" music="" major="" will="" want="" to="" practice="" in="" apartment="" and="" roomate="" some="" sound="" cancelling="" headphones.="">

<p>As the parent of a recent performance degree graduate, I offer the following based on observation and habits of a variety of conservatory level and other serious music students:</p>

<p>-most at this level have developed specific time, techniques and schedules that maximize the most effective means to practice. This includes practicing in a private setting, often before a full length mirror, and in an area free of outside distractions.</p>

<p>-most colleges/conservatories with music programs prohibit instrumental/vocal practice in the dorms; as a first year student, the potential roomie is already adjusted to using the music departments practice rooms. Depending on the school, she may even have designated rooms or hours, possible even a key to the music building if it's not accessible 24/7.</p>

<p>-most music schools provide secure personal lockers for instrument storage purposes, within the music department. This serves a multiple role, as it saves the instrument from the daily hazards of transport, loss, weather changes. It eliminates forgetting the instrument. It is easily accessible to the musician when and where they need it the most. It minimizes the potential of casual/malicious damage by not being stored in the dorm room. At most schools, this is by far the norm, and lockers are used by virtually all instrumental students, regardless of instrument size.</p>

<p>-A musician at this level prizes and values their instrument, and even at the college/preprofessional level the cost is in the range of thousands to tens of thousands depending on the type and quality of the instrument. I would surmise that a serious musician would not maintain an instrument in an apartment having a better, more secure facility on campus.</p>

<p>Hopefully, this clears up a few misconceptions about music students. There will be more disagreements about who washes the dishes than instrumental use. I'd be far more wary of the poorly trained suitemate with an electric guitar, or the musical volume levels and artist selections of the student body of a whole :)</p>
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<p>As my oldest moved into her own house this past week I am being made aware of how much it costs to move into a place. She was supposed to move with a friend but at the last minute decided she wanted to live alone. She found a small house not an apartment.
First huge expense- security deposit- ties up a good sum of money for the term of the lease. She had to borrow half from us.
Also some other costs that one needs to consider and we don't think about. Utilities almost all require a deposit. This past week deposits have been a shock to her. Gas company, electric. She hasn't made the inquiry about internet but that will be another initial output of start up costs.
Just a reminder of hidden costs of renting.</p>