<p>The refutation of this idea is one thing is Hernandez’s A Is For Admission I really agree wtih. Reality is that at private colleges, the kid with mediocre grades and high scores is a lot more tempting to admissions officers than the kid with great grades and mediocre scores. I think that’s especially true when AP and SAT II scores are high. They prove that the kid HAS learned the material. </p>
<p>So, I think the young man will do better than Suffolk, for example. I also agree with Momof3boys that it’s often the B student who isn’t pushing himself who blooms most quickly in college. Often the smartest kids in CCs–the ones he’s likeliest to make friends with–are lazy too. Getting him into a school where other kids are genuinely interested in the academic side of school can really “spark” kids. And if he’s enjoyed research, this may be a way to get him interested. It’s unlikely that a CC is going to give him much of a chance to do real lab research with profs, which may be exactly what could get this kid to bloom.</p>
Pitt is a good suggestion…like Penn, Pitt perfectly fits his preferred profile of a northeastern, largish, urban, strong research biology school that he is looking for. (Penn is #3 in NIH funding, Pitt is #5). He’d easily be able to keep doing research as early as wanted to get involved with it there… and the bulk of the bioscience research facilities and medical center are right on the undergrad campus just like at Penn. I’m very familiar with both Pitt and Penn biosciences and there really is little difference between the caliber of the two.</p>
<p>However, Pitt is not a gimme with that GPA. 98% of their freshman have a 3.98 or better and Pitt places a lot of priority on high school curriculum and achievement therein when making admissions decisions. It’s admission’s stats are close to UMD’s. The SAT/ACT score may be good enough to get him in alone though, and since he is out-of-state, that would actually be a bonus at Pitt which likes to recruit OOS to show geographic diversity. If it wasn’t for his GPA, his SAT scores would be enough for freshman honors admission and likely a full tuition award at Pitt, but who knows what the GPA will do to that. There would be only one way to find out. </p>
<p>Sometimes, when kids are bored in hs, when they get to college and can concentrate on what they want to do and are challenged, they can excel. Only he will know for sure if that is the case.</p>
<p>I appreciate all the speculation about why his grades are why they are. To address the question…he wants to go to school next year and a gap year is of no interest (I talked with him about that a few weeks ago). He doesn’t hate HS, he hates doing homework (from what my brother tells me) and aces all his tests just be sitting in school but often turns in shoddy homework and projects. We talked about taking some of the Stanford online classes to show he could do the work. He decide to take a econ class at Dartmouth this semester instead of the high school class. That really doesn’t help with his Bio major plans however.</p>
<p>Yes–he was diagnosed with a form of ADHD way back in elementary school…has never been medicated, or done any therapy – my sister-in-law didn’t want to go that route. Not my kid-- so I shut up.</p>
<p>Any other school suggestions?
I feel there has to be a good fit – he’s visited a couple of the larger state flagships on the East/Midwest and actually likes a them. The OS tuition is awful!</p>
<p>If he’s doing bio research in h.s., he is already way ahead of the game. He should take what interests him. What kind of bio is he interested in?</p>
<p>Maybe SUNY-Binghamton or Stony Brook, but those aren’t really urban. Rutgers…though, personally, I’m not a fan of how things are set up there.</p>
<p>Honestly, outside some of the obvious Ivies and Johns Hopkins, your best bet for biosciences in the Northeast is Pitt, particularly since he seems to have an interest in, and is already familiar with, doing research…(although depending on where you live in the northeast, you may think Pittsburgh as more midwestern).</p>
<p>Try honors college at state school. Although some have higher GPA requirements. if he is thinking of Bio major, is Med. School in plans? If so, first, UG college does not matter at all, but college GPA means everything. Got to go to any college with completely turned around attitude, get GPA as close to 4.0 as possible. it will work.</p>
<p>SUNY/Stony Brook, UCSB/College of Creative Studies, Pitt, Boston U. UMD is possible with those scores and many APs, but not likely for Honors/Scholars.</p>
<p>Does the nephew have a mentor/prof who can write a rec letter about his research? Any teachers who see his potential? Does the nephew spend a lot of time doing research on his own just because it’s interesting (far more so than HW)? One of my kids wrote about his constant informal research and self-teaching, and what he got out of it. Is any of this research in good enough shape for a paper/submission to science competitions?</p>
<p>^Practically every kid who is thinking of going to Bio / medicine is doing Med. Research lab in HS and continue doing it thru UG years. Actually, I do not know any single one who does not.</p>
<p>Assuming is primary interest is biology research, the other thing he should do, to help narrow down any list that he comes up with, is scan through the lists of faculty in bioscience related departments at the universities of interest to see which labs may really interest him to work in. All schools typically have lists of faculty with short descriptions of their research interests. Biology is a very broad topic, so there could be many departments to scan through (bio, bioengineering, neuroscience, environmental, etc), so that is where know where his interest lies in biology is useful. I mean, he doesn’t have to know what he wants to do yet, but looking through the labs he may find one university’s specializes in work that really strikes his interest. The good news is, with him being in a lab already and such, he is probably already familiar how to seek this out and use pubmed, etc.</p>
<p>UNH, UMass (Boston or Amherst), and Rochester Institute of Technology might be worth looking at. They are not super-selective but they enroll a variety of aptitudes, so if your nephew is, as you suspect, bored out of his gourd, he could meet peers there that would challenge him.</p>
<p>My son, whom I mentioned upthread, similarly failed to hand in homework–often he’d done it, just didn’t bother to bring it to school; other times he refused to do what he though of as pointless busywork. Again and again his midterm report would be hair-raising, but he would manage to bring his grades up in class after class by getting a 100 on the final exam. Anyhow, he has found college courses much more to his liking. Last year, as a hs senior, we arranged for him to spend the mornings at the university and the afternoons at hs finishing his last few requirements for graduation. While continuing to do rather mediocre work in the hs classes, he aced demanding upper-level university courses in his prospective engineering major. The fact that he could choose what to study, that he respected his professors, that the assignments were all substantive, AND that he was finally maturing a bit, made all the difference. My husband and I couldn’t believe how focused and hardworking he had suddenly become.</p>
<p>In discussions with other parents, there seem to be loads of boys like this.</p>
Where are all these kids doing research? At the universities I’m familiar with, and that is three in the top 5 in NIH funding, and (btw, also Miami, yes, I was at the UM/Jackson medical complex), I knew of two total h.s. student who volunteered in the dozens, perhaps hundreds, of labs in which I was familiar. In both cases, they have some sort of connection to faculty at the school, like in this case. It is still actually pretty unusual for h.s. students to be in a real research setting at a university. A lot of labs wouldn’t even consider taking them on (a lot of resources to bring them up to speed to just have them take off in short order, and typically their schedules don’t allow them to follow projects through, which can be bad enough with rotation students and some undergrads). Doing some short h.s. program through a uni or classroom lab exercises in h.s. is not the same as doing real research at a university, if that is what you were suggesting.</p>
<p>Only on CC does a B average mean you will NEVER get into any college, so off to a CC for you. OMG!!! Come on… really? Does every kid in the world have to have a 4.0 to go to college. Sometimes this forum drives me CRAZY!!! My S is similar to the OP’s nephew. There is no way anyone would describe him as lazy. Eagle Scout, volunteer fireman, beach lifeguard, volunteer mountain Search and Rescue, job at mountain outfitter store, etc., etc. He just thinks there is more to life than getting straight A’s. He could care less about the “Ivy” prestige and is looking at a whole wide range of colleges that he hopes will be full of kids that think as he does. He is the most well balanced kid I’ve ever seen. All of his teacher’s rave about his love of learning, saying he is a breath of fresh air. I don’t worry about him in the least. Your nephew will find his school and don’t let anyone tell you that he will have to go to a CC. Sometimes bright kids are so bright they can see right through all of this grade- grubbing mentality that is so pervasive in todays schools.</p>
<p>Right on 5boys, this seems like the typical scenario where as long as this kid gets placed in an environment that is interesting and stimulating for him, he’ll take off. And if he wants to do a PhD in a biological field eventually, his research as an undergrad will mean a lot more than his grades (although he shouldn’t let them tank, he should try to keep them around 3.5 at least, but even then it’s not the end of the world). Then in grad school, grades are meaningless as long as you pass.</p>
<p>He would get into U Pitt, which should be very good for biology/bio research. He might even get some merit aid, though can’t be sure with that GPA…</p>
<p>“Where are all these kids doing research?”
yes, at colleges. It does not matter where. It is not that hard to get internship at Med. Research lab at your UG college. It is harder while in HS - connections usually work.</p>
<p>“Only on CC does a B average mean you will NEVER get into any college” - it is funny. Nobody here said that 3.1 will not get into any college, however, some Elite places are pretty much out, unless there are connections or URM status. Just cool down, people here are looking for realistic solutions.</p>
<p>I was agreeing pretty much 100% with you until you put this. All kids are different. Obviously, not every kid needs a 4.0 but OTOH, getting good grades does not necessarily indicate “grade grubbing,” whatever the heck that is. A kid may not get good grades because he is bored, lazy, or for countless other reasons. A 3.0 is not the mark of some indolent dolt. But getting a 4.0 is not a character defect.</p>
<p>Grade-grubbing mentality aka awesome work ethic is absolute necessity in college. High collge GPA is extremely important for getting jobs and having chances at Grad. School.
Again, if Medicine is in plans, GPA=3.5+ is a must. Getting reasonable Grad. School entrance exam score is not walk in a park either, got to have ‘grade-grabbing mentality’ for sure, no way around it.</p>
Well, that’s a pleasant way to phrase it. I think most people use the term “grade grubber” in a pejorative fashion, which I think is unfair in the vast majority of cases.</p>