<p>Not quite northeast…but see if he’ll look at University of Cincinnati. Would probably get into honors college. School is surrounded by top ranked hospitals and a good medical school…so likely to be some good biology opportunities.</p>
<p>The kid got 5’s on his AP tests…and has very strong standardized test scores. Colleges will know he can do the work. He will need to use essays and whatever else he can (rec from a teacher who really loves him in a course where he did well) to convice schools he isn’t lazy.</p>
<p>Don’t worry about college econ not being relevant to studying bio. It will be impressive that he’s taking a course at Dart, no matter what it is – especially if he does well in it.</p>
<p>With a parent as a prof. at Dart…he should have some connections. Dart admissions office…even if he doesn’t want to go there…should be able to make connections with other admissions directors. If he really wants to go to a school that appears to be slightly out of reach, this is some networking he should use.</p>
<p>my X-BIL older bro (my hs classmate) was a genius, so-so HS grades, high sats, didn’t get in any of his schools out of HS and took a gap year. Went to average private school, then to med school. After which he got a Rhode’s. Alas sister divorced and classmate passed.</p>
<p>“The kid got 5’s on his AP tests…and has very strong standardized test scores. Colleges will know he can do the work. He will need to use essays and whatever else he can (rec from a teacher who really loves him in a course where he did well) to convice schools he isn’t lazy.”</p>
<p>His grades reflect laziness or an unwillingness to do work that he deems as not important. Obviously he has a lot of ability, but colleges realize that motivation and perseverence trump ability when it comes to graduating from college. He’s obviously bright enough to attend the top colleges, but they have an overabundance of applicants with top scores and high gpas, so it’s unlikely that he’ll be accepted by a top college.</p>
<p>However, his stats will get him into most colleges in the country including some that would give him merit aid. The question, however, is whether he has the maturity and motivation to do well in college at this point in his life. That’s why I think that his doing a productive gap year and working a job , paying rent, or doing full time volunteer work would allow him to see what the world really is like could give him a needed chance to mature. It also might boost his chance of getting accepted into top colleges where he’d be surrounded by peers as bright or brighter than he is, and that may motivate him more than being in a lower ranked school where he might be the smartest person he encounters.</p>
<p>That seems pretty high. The 2009-10 Pitt CDS says that 65% of incoming freshmen have a 3.75 or higher GPA. 5% had a GPA between 3-3.24. I don’t know if these are weighted or unweighted.</p>
<p>Pitt does rolling admissions, IIRC, so having an acceptance in hand early, esp. for a kid with lopsided stats, could be a VERY good thing. I would get an app in as early as possible if he’s at all interested.</p>
<p>We have a neighbor who got into Penn State Univ. Park engineering with a 3.1, 26 ACT and 1 AP exam. Also got into Clemson, Kent State, Ohio State, Florida State, Towson and Salisbury. Did <em>not</em> get into UMD.</p>
<p>ETA: Has anyone mentioned Drexel? Don’t know how their Bio is, but OP’s nephew should have a good shot there. In prior years I would have said URochester (outstanding in sciences), but they got very hot last year and their acceptance rate dropped from the low 40s to the low 30s.</p>
<p>LOL, MiamiDAP–I guess it depends on what your kid’s GPA is…</p>
<p>The son of a friend had a similar situation of lower GPA because he wouldn’t do work that he deemed was not worthy of his effort. He couldn’t get into the colleges that he really wanted to attend, but got into Occidental and Whitman (Western schools). </p>
<p>Went to Occidental and is getting straight As. So have hope (and look at Occidental?).</p>
<p>I think he should take a shot at URochester. </p>
<p>If I can bend his requirements a bit, I’d suggest Worcester Poly and Holy Cross (if Catholic’s okay). They are both in Worcester and both are strong in biology. I’d also suggest UWisc-Madison. Not NE, but has the other things he’s looking for. </p>
<p>None of these are safeties, but I think he has a shot at all of them.</p>
<p>Any chance that he could write up his summer research for an Intel? Even if he doesn’t get semifinalist status, doing that might up his chances a bit. (Getting semifinalist status would boost them considerably.) </p>
<p>I’d also suggest that he find out where classmates are applying and shoot for some schools where kids with better grades than his are NOT applying. (I’ve got no proof, but think colleges are more likely to take a kid like this when they aren’t passing over a student from the same high school with better grades.) </p>
<p>Finally, does his hs rank? If it doesn’t, the gpa won’t hurt as much as it will if it does.</p>
<p>The problem with your nephew isn’t admissions; it’s getting him to do the work. Many, many universities would accept him. For a top school that might consider him, he could look at Case or Reed. He might get a good look by some lacs, many of which are a bit more lenient towards boys, or even St John’s (the Great Books school). I don’t know if he would have any chance at all at U Chicago but once upon a time, they would take a chance on kids (as would Carnegie Mellon-- perhaps another possibility). GW takes kids with unusual profiles. </p>
<p>This is a total longshot but… does anyone think this kid has a shot at a uni outside the US? I have always heard that British unis care more about test scores than grades. St Andrew’s wants 1950 SATs and a 3.3-3.5 gpa. I wonder if that’s flexible? There may be other British universities that would be happy to have him IF he’s willing to do the work. Really, I think the issue is getting him to do the work. He may need to revisit the idea of medication and maybe even a few visits with someone that can help him get organized. Fwiw, RIT has very impressive support structures in place for kids with and without lds.</p>
<p>A 3.1 GPA in all honors/AP classes does not indicate lazy. There are some schools that actually do not grade inflate. It may indicate bored, but many colleges would consider that quite respectable with high SAT’s and his ECs. My son had a rather depressed GPA, and managed to get into a top school anyways. He is doing better than he ever did in high school, as now he gets to take the classes that interest him. Definitely look at U Rochester, Northeastern (he’ll get merit aid there) and Carnegie Mellon. Yes, some kids actually get accepted to top schools with less than a 4.0…but if you were to read some of these threads, you’d think it was impossible.</p>
Opps, you are right, the average GPA for Pitt is 3.87 according to their CDS. I think I transposed the numbers from the percentage that submitted the GPA. Sorry about that.</p>
<p>Case is a great bioscience school, but it is certainly on the more selective end and definitively is in the midwest, but if that is not a problem it might be worth looking at. Same with Rochester. Better off at Pitt for bio than CMU, actually, unless you are talking about some specific computer related offshoots. Personally, I would pass on Drexel for bio. It certainly isn’t better than Temple, which if you going to look at DU you might as well check out TU. Of course, this all might change depending on the type of biology he is interested in, per the lab comments above. Every school has areas of expertise and some outstanding labs. </p>
<p>Outside of focusing on specific areas of biology, there are definitely tiers of overall bioscience reputation and strength and the best way to break them down is by NIH funding levels. Here are the top 10 (latest available fiscal year-2006), if anyone is interest I can post more:
<p>I think he should definitely try for Cornell, Penn and Carnegie Mellon, but also balance his list with schools such as:
Boston U
Drexel
Fordham
Maryland
Northeastern
Pitt
RIT
Rutgers
SUNY-Buffalo
Syracuse
UDel
Univ of the Sciences
Virginia Tech
WPI</p>
<p>We are in the same boat with our S. Right now he has a 3.2 GPA and 2180 SAT/ 32 ACT. All the colleges he is applying to are true safeties or reaches. His GPA just makes predicting where he stands difficult. S does well on tests but poorly on deliverables: ie - homework and papers and not because they are not done, he just forgets to turn them in on time. His GC told us to plan on applying to a large number of schools because she has no idea how schools are going to look at him. One saving grace is that the teachers that have agreed to give him recs both agree that S is a thinker, he knows his stuff and contributes greatly to discussions in class.</p>
<p>Pitt does seem like a good fit for this student.</p>
<p>Judging from students who got into Pitt from our high school, it seems that Pitt looks at weighted grades. Several I know of had unweighted averages similar to OP’s student, but in honors/AP classes and with similar SAT’s. Lots of outstanding students, including those with high SAT’s and high grades, seem to be attracted to Pitt on account of generous merit aid and plentiful research opportunities, and the Honors College has a history of being very inclusive. </p>
<p>From what I have heard, admission to freshman honors college classes in math and sciences (where this student’s strengths seem to lie) requires passing an examination, and these classes (like their counterparts at “top” universities) are packed with students who scored “5” on the AP test and 750 to 800 on the SAT. It is not difficult to get permission to take an honors course, even if overall gpa falls short of admissions criteria for the honors college.</p>
<p>On the flip side, this is a large university and students will have to take the initiative to attend class and recitation, hand in homework, including problem sets and lab reports, on time, seek help if necessary, and interview (and show up for!) for research opportunities. Dorms are large and an eclectic student body means that some will be dominated by students less interested in the “life of the mind.” </p>
<p>Best to realize ahead of time if this will be a problem(it is sometimes difficult to realize that a student has been doing well with significant help from parental supports and connections), and to arrange for support services or accommodations through the Disabilities Center or a private source, but these should work well, considering that Pitt is a major research center for these types of things.</p>
<p>@MiamiDAP - Grade-grubbing mentality aka awesome work ethic is absolute necessity in college. High collge GPA is extremely important for getting jobs and having chances at Grad. School.</p>
<p>This is something I think entering students really underestimate. I tried to make it clear to my kids that the relationship they had with the teacher, even in HS, was important, but in college it was paramount. If you show up for class, if you look like you’re trying, if you turn in your work - even if it’s not great work - on time, you will leave a good or at least not-bad impression on the professor and when it comes to deciding between a C or a B, that can actually make a difference. If you want even more than that, ask questions and get involved with the recommended reading on the syllabus. But really it’s just treating the professor with respect and some deference - you can’t underestimate how far that will go in the end.</p>
<p>There’s a lot of pressure not to be a “brown-noser” in HS, at least in my son’s HS. But in college, I think that pressure might be somewhat lessened to some extent because you do not see a lot of the kids outside class so who cares what they think of you? </p>
<p>I have tried to impress this upon my son in various ways - he is in a co-op program and, frankly, GPA is the only thing co-op employers have to go on for the first round or two, until the student has some work experience under his or her belt. In HS maybe you can rely on AP tests and ACT/SAT scores - but in college you just don’t have that “safety net” (well, it’s a safety net if you test well, which he does).</p>
<p>I wanted to clarify a few things. I agree that some A students work VERY hard for their GPA’s and they deserve the recognition that goes with that, i.e. better college options. My point I was making about the “grade-grubbing mentality” was that in my S’s school there are many kids who are so obsessed with grades that they kind of miss out on what school is about… actual learning. My S is just frustrated with these types of students asking for the millionth time what their grade is and how much each assignment is worth, etc. It gets a little old if your someone who really doesn’t care that much about grades. I don’t think that makes him lazy, just different. By the way he LOVED Reed college.</p>
<p>mamom… what colleges are your S looking at?</p>
<p>“he hates doing homework (from what my brother tells me) and aces all his tests just be sitting in school but often turns in shoddy homework and projects.”</p>
<p>Bio classes in college are likely to have problem sets and lab reports, not just quizzes and tests. Most schools are also going to make him take distribution courses in English and history that he may not like or want to take.</p>
<p>If his parents are OK with him skating by in college, well, it’s their money. And it’s possible that he will skate by or even do better in college than HS despite the lack of supervision – anything is possible. But I wouldn’t make an expensive bet on it. Regardless of where he can get in, I’d want to see a change in attitude and priorities before I paid a fortune in OOS tuition.</p>
<p>I haven’t read the entire thread, but I have to let go of a little rant here: I’d like to object to the constant characterization of “high test scores with low grades” as LAZY. </p>
<p>It doesn’t say LAZY to me, it says BORED OUT OF HIS OR HER SKULL. And very, very often it also says PENALIZED FOR NOT TURNING IN ROUTINE HOMEWORK despite clear mastery of the material on tests. The kid did not get 5s on the AP exams without mastering the material!</p>
<p>It also says NOT A GRADE-GRUBBING SUCK-UP.</p>
<p>My sympathies are with the kid. The idea that a kid like this should be subjected to more such torture at a community college as some kind of punishment for not knuckling under to the system is virtually an obscenity.</p>
<p>Such a clear mismatch between ability and results should have been addressed long before the kid was allowed to get himself into this fix. But it’s too late now. The thing now is to help him get into a situation where he can, perhaps, finally ENJOY the educational process and really perform because he wants to.</p>
<p>I would suggest going off the beaten path, either to a school like Reed, which has the reputation of actually appreciating intelligence instead of grade-grubbing, or something like the tutorial program at Ohio University or Sarah Lawrence or maybe St. Johns Annapolis.</p>
<p>“PENALIZED FOR NOT TURNING IN ROUTINE HOMEWORK”</p>
<p>That might not be laziness…a better word might be sloppiness. Trust me, people do not get away with that at Reed. Maybe none of the homework there is “routine,” but I doubt it, especially in math, science, and foreign language where problem sets/exercises are the norm.</p>
<p>Speaking as someone who was bored to death in high school, had the lowest grades and highest scores in my HS class, and heartily agrees that I deserved every D and F I earned.</p>
I object to this constant generalization. I got good grades and good test scores when I went to school. Lot’s of kids did then, and lots of kids still do now. That does not necessarily make one a grade grubbing suckup. I don’t beleive I ever questioned a grade, or asked for extra credit, or did any “sucking up”. The one time my parents forced me to compain about a grade I was mortified and it completely backfired. </p>
<p>That’s a nasty comment, just as nasty as calling someone lazy for getting a 3.1, which by the way, is not a bad GPA. </p>
<p>BTW, a 5 on an AP test, as people completely seem to want to forget, does not indicate “mastery” of a topic. I got 5s on AP tests and struggled in the college classes. You can get a 5 on some of these tests with 60%. It does however indicate that the student is relatively capable in the class.</p>
<p>I agree it would be ridiculous to send this kid to a CC.</p>