<p>Some more schools to think of:</p>
<p>McGill
UToronto
UConn
U Miami (not northeast, tho)</p>
<p>I also thought of Case, Pitt, UMass and U of Rochester, but others have already mentioned these.</p>
<p>His GPA will be an issue at most of these schools, but still worth a shot. They all have great programs for bio. (Well, with UToronto, I’m just assuming - I don’t actually know anything about it. With the rest, I’ve heard/know something.)</p>
<p>"That’s a nasty comment, just as nasty as calling someone lazy for getting a 3.1, which by the way, is not a bad GPA. "</p>
<p>In most cases, a person with perfect scores who only earns a 3.1 gpa is lazy. Saying this as the mom of 2 high scoring sons who – due to laziness - had gpas similar to that. </p>
<p>For most people, however, getting a 3.1 gpa requires a lot of work. That’s not the case for people smart enough to ace their college boards.</p>
<p>"It doesn’t say LAZY to me, it says BORED OUT OF HIS OR HER SKULL. And very, very often it also says PENALIZED FOR NOT TURNING IN ROUTINE HOMEWORK despite clear mastery of the material on tests. The kid did not get 5s on the AP exams without mastering the material!</p>
<p>It also says NOT A GRADE-GRUBBING SUCK-UP."</p>
<p>While I empathize with students who are bored out of their skulls, truth is that no matter what college one attends or what place employs one, one will have to do some things that one finds to be boring. People who refuse to do such things flunk out, get mediocre or failing grades or lose their jobs.</p>
<p>And colleges do love the students whom you call “grade-grubbing suck ups.” No college wants to admit students who care not a whit about grades or graduating or who will do assignments or attend class only when the students find the material to be fascinating.</p>
<p>Well said, NSM. </p>
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<p>Unless this child independently wealthy, this is why he has high test scores and a low gpa (low compared to his test scores.) He’s learned that minimal effort still reaps huge rewards. He’s also being taught that what he says is more important than what he does. Not a recipe for success in the real world. </p>
<p>I too have a kid who scores sky-high on standardized tests. We told him that our financial contribution to college would be based on his effort. A 3.1 would have meant we’d be willing to pay for one year of community college and then revisit the issue.</p>
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<p>Here we go with the incredibly annoying opposite end of the spectrum of comments from the “grade grubber” comments.</p>
<p>Do you know exactly how much you specificallly know about the OP’s nephew? I’ll tell you. Pretty much nothing. </p>
<p>Your kids may be smart but lazy. My own kid is smart but lazy. But I do not believe you can make these kind of generalizations about some kid based on just a few numbers. It is possible he’s bored, it is possible he is spending his effort elsewhere. Now the OP says he is lazy, so maybe she knows that for a fact. But I wouldn’t jump to conclusions.</p>
<p>And I’ll stop commenting on this now because I know we’ve now moved this thread to an area the OP specifically asked that it not go. And I have no suggestions for schools.</p>
<p>5 Boys - My S is looking at W&L, James Madison, Bentley, Babson, Xavier, U Pitts, Loyola Chicago, Marquette, Lehigh, and W&M, amoung others. List is long. I really think he would thrive at a LAC, but wasn’t really intersted til he visited W&L and JM. Now W&L is his first choice, and a big reach due to his GPA.</p>
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<p>That’s right. Being penalized for not turning in work on time. Why that requires all caps and outrage I have no idea.</p>
<p>It must be wonderful to have a job where not turning ones work in on time and always being challenged to the top of ones abilities is the day to day norm. Mr PMK and I wouldn’t know about that, we’ve always had jobs where some of the work is kind of boring but have been lucky enough that most of the work is engaging. We’ve also never had jobs where we just skipped turning in updates on projects because, hey, trust us, the final product is going to be awesome.</p>
<p>As the parent of a highly intelligent kid I resented, and I still resent, the teachers and others who let my son skate by on “little things” like turning in work on time. We’re not independently wealthy, our son is going to have work in the real world where no one cares about test scores and the like. </p>
<p>I know too many bright adults who are miserable because the world stopped treating them like a special snowflake once they entered the work force. I’d much rather my son be a productive person than an entitled one.</p>
<p>". My own kid is smart but lazy. But I do not believe you can make these kind of generalizations about some kid based on just a few numbers. It is possible he’s bored, it is possible he is spending his effort elsewhere. "</p>
<p>There would be few reasons other than being lazy in class that a kid could get nearly perfect scores, yet obtain only a 3.1 gpa. </p>
<p>He could be very motivated to do things that are not academic or that are educational, but aren’t school work. However, he could be very lazy when it comes to his formal academics.</p>
<p>Both of my high scoring, mediocre high school grade-earning sons were very hard working and very successful when it came to their productive interests outside of school. However, they were lazy and unmotivated when it came to their academic classes.</p>
<p>"I know too many bright adults who are miserable because the world stopped treating them like a special snowflake once they entered the work force. I’d much rather my son be a productive person than an entitled one. "</p>
<p>I agree. Just because my sons are very bright doesn’t mean they should be excused from doing turning their work in on time or doing academic work that they find to be boring.</p>
<p>I’d love to hear from a biology professor at Reed or Sarah Lawrence about how they’d react to a student who blew off the weekly labs “despite clear mastery of the material on tests.” We’ll be waiting a long time for a professor to tell us that the student would face no penalty.</p>
<p>As far as blowing off assignments once in college, I don’t think that would be much of an issue for bored kids in HS. My S sat in on a class at Reed and came out so incredibly invigorated that for the first time I saw a spark in him. He said he wants to work harder in HS but because he is bored, it is hard to stay focused. This is NOT a lazy kid. I do penalize him at home for not doing homework or turning in assignments because we believe it is important, regardless if he thinks it is meaningless. Imagine if you had to sit 6-7 hours a day in a classroom listening to something you already knew. How long would you last??? How would you stay focused? Just throwing it out there.</p>
<p>I very much agree with 5boys and Consolation. “Lazy” is great catch-all phrase that educators use too quickly and too frequently. My S had an honors class where he got A’s on all quizzes, exams and essays, but got a B+ because he did not turn in all the homework. If the purpose of homework is to extend and reinforce the lessons, then, in this case, it was superfluous. This year he has an honors Spanish III class where homework counts as 30% and class discussion (in Spanish) only counts as 20%. Educators, particularly at the senior high level, should examine the purpose and place of homework.</p>
<p>I am not going to knock the kid who is very motivated by being perfect, but neither do I agree with overly simplistic descriptions (“lazy”)of kids who do not do homework. Thank goodness for test scores, interviews, EC’s and teachers’ letters of recommendation.</p>
<p>“LOL, MiamiDAP–I guess it depends on what your kid’s GPA is…”</p>
<p>My kid has never had a single “B” in her entire life (college senior). Works her butt off. Has to, she knows that. That is the only way she know how to achieve anything in life.</p>
<p>“As far as blowing off assignments once in college, I don’t think that would be much of an issue for bored kids in HS.”</p>
<p>It depends on the kid and the assignments.</p>
<p>No matter what college a kid goes to, they are going to have some boring classes and some boring assignments. That’s life.</p>
<p>Some students will blow off the boring classes and assignments. Some won’t.</p>
<p>I doubt that there is any student so fortunate as to have a college life that includes only fascinating classes and assignments. The same is true of jobs. Even the most fascinating job has some components that are boring.</p>
<p>“If the purpose of homework is to extend and reinforce the lessons, then, in this case, it was superfluous. This year he has an honors Spanish III class where homework counts as 30% and class discussion (in Spanish) only counts as 20%. Educators, particularly at the senior high level, should examine the purpose and place of homework.”</p>
<p>And some things people are expected to do in college and in the work force are wastes of time, but people have a choice: do those things and get decent grades or continue to be employed or don’t do those things and get bad grades or get fired.</p>
<p>Being smarter/wiser than one’s professor or employer doesn’t allow one to not do what one was assigned.</p>
<p>I bet everyone posting here has been in a situation in school or at work when we had to do something that was boring or a complete waste of time. That’s life.</p>
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<p>I absolutely agree … especially since my middle kid is a lot like the OP’s nephew. There are about 60 schools (30 research schools and 30 LACs) which I consider highly selective and probably very-very high reaches for this student. However while searching for SecondToGo an unexpected learning is how many school are not that tough to get into but whose top quartile of students are very good (some merit aid involved in this top quarter in many cases) … schools where a higher potential HS 3.1 student can get accepted and also find students to push themselves academically … these are the schools my second has focussed on. My son slugged through all the Mid-Atlantic and New England schools in our guide to find schools the right size, the right majors, and schools where his SATs are about top 25% and GPA is OK (typically about median) … this did not yield a really long list … but his “short” list which is essentially all matches and safeties is an excellent list from my perspective … and more importantly from his. I have now been on about 50 college campuses and continue to be amazed how much I like so many of the schools … I’m convinced there are excellent options for all reasonable students if they are willing to be open, honest, and self-reflective.</p>
<p>"Only on CC does a B average mean you will NEVER get into any college, so off to a CC for you. OMG!!! Come on… really? Does every kid in the world have to have a 4.0 to go to college. Sometimes this forum drives me CRAZY!!! "</p>
<p>The only people on CC I see making such silly statements are students.</p>
<p>Most of the parents posting here know that there are hundreds of good 4-year colleges in the U.S. that would be delighted to accept “B” students and even might give such students merit aid.</p>
<p>I like your post #64, bovertine. Agree with 5boys, consolation and azcpamom.
And this thread is turning into an argument of generalizations about smart but lazy, about a kid that only the OP knows…think of all the generalizations people made about you when you were younger. The story is not yet written. Any more great college suggestions for this young man?</p>
<p>Would he consider the University of New Hampshire? Good school, in-state tuition (I assume, since father is employed at Dartmouth), good biology program, and good size. Durham isn’t urban, but it’s a great college town. If he gets excited about education and does well, he can look for a great grad program. Since he tests well, he’ll probably have great GRE scores, too. I think state universities are often overlooked, but they can offer an excellent education.</p>
<p>My son has stats very similar to those of the OP’s nephew. A few thoughts:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The conventional wisdom about reaches, matches and safeties tends to go out the window with kids in that position, because the situation is outside that of the adcom’s normal comfort zone. 35 years ago, my college roommate had an extremely similar profile when applying to law school, and got into a top 5 school while being rejected outright at a school ranked 25 spots below. What we have been told is that the admissions decision can be heavily skewed by the initial reader of the application–if he/she likes the application, the applicant gains an advocate; conversely, if the initial reaction isn’t good, the application process may come to a quick halt. This makes predictions about the likelihood of getting into any particular school much more of a guessing game.</p></li>
<li><p>That said, there are certain things which help a student with this profile. First and foremost is an upward grade trend, which suggests late blooming maturity to go along with the obvious intellectual “wattage”. Another is a showing of extracurricular activities involving significant time expenditures, to explain that the student isn’t “lazy” (to use a term thrown around in this thread), but rather focused on other things which are school related (as opposed to partying, playing video games, etc.). Substantial achievement in those activities is also a plus.</p></li>
<li><p>There are schools which are more heavily into test scores than others. In the Northeast, Pitt, Syracuse, and, to a lesser extent, Maryland are 3 schools ranked in a large urban setting the Top 75 national universities which jump immediately to mind as a result of the research we have done. I’m sure there are others. If the OP’s nephew is willing to expand his search to the Midwest, the list grows substantially.</p></li>
<li><p>I am not going to get into a lot of the back and forth on issues which are tangential to the OP’s original question, but 2 things which prompt a response: (a) for those who suggested that the nephew go to CC, or that if they had a son like him, they’d only pay for CC until he demonstrated better work habits–really? You have a kid who has done gotten Bs in AP classes with really smart kids without great study habits, and you’re going to teach him to work hard by putting him in an environment where he can likely get As with little or no effort whatsoever? I’m not knocking CCs in any way, but the average student there is not at the same level as the kids at schools the OP’s nephew will get into; and (b) I don’t care whether you’ve “mastered the material” up, down and sideways–if you get an assignment and you don’t do it or turn it in, that’s on you. In the real world, a failure to do what’s asked by the person in authority leads to unemployment, whether the assignment is make work or not. </p></li>
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<p>Good luck to the OP’s nephew.</p>
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<p>Among all of the other remarks on this subject I’ll react to this one.</p>
<p>Labs are not meaningless homework. Labs are an integral part of the learning process in science. It might not be too strong a statement to say that labs are the CORE of science.</p>
<p>“Meaningless homework” is the equivalent of fill-in-the-blank worksheets, not problem sets, essays, and other meaningful work. Believe me, plenty of high school teachers assign that kind of thing, and plenty of high school classes are structured so that not turning in a couple of them drives the grade from an A to a B in the blink of an eye.</p>
<p>It is certainly true that a kid who does not comply with this sort of thing, who doesn’t learn to grind it out despite boredom, is going to lessen their options in the long run. As a parent, I think it is crucial to try to prevent bright, under-served kids from sabotaging themselves in this way.</p>
<p>But that is water under the bridge here.</p>
<p>“Imagine if you had to sit 6-7 hours a day in a classroom listening to something you already knew. How long would you last??? How would you stay focused?”</p>
<p>I don’t need to “imagine” this. I remember it. It totally sucked, and I refused to cooperate, and I got an F on every piece of busy-work I didn’t turn in. Then I applied to ten colleges and all ten turned me down. That’s as it should be. You need to demonstrate discipline to show that you’ll be successful in college.</p>
<p>I’m all for reforming high school to make it less childish and stupid (thank you, Ferris Bueller), but a kid going to THIS high school THIS semester needs to follow the rules or swallow the consequences.</p>
<p>““Meaningless homework” is the equivalent of fill-in-the-blank worksheets, not problem sets, essays, and other meaningful work.”</p>
<p>I’ve been asked to write many a stupid essay and perform many a pointless science lab in my day. If you can do calculus, a trig problem set is a big waste of time. I’d bet a lot of money that a kid with a 33 ACT and a 3.1 GPA, at the kind of high school that offers multiple APs, has blown off something more substantial than some fill-in-the-blank work sheets.</p>
<p>Entirely anecdotal, so feel free to disregard. Know of two kids with high scores and so-so grades (one probably close to OP’s nephew’s GPA; the other probably a little higher: 3.4?) who both got into Wesleyan. Again, may be just a fluke, but thought I’d mention.
Overachiever’s Mom: I remember your post from late Spring / early Summer about your son and finals, etc. Everything work out ok? How did you get through?</p>