<p>It is very frustrating but don’t totally sit back. Definitely don’t nag- it only makes it worse. But do talk about college, and help him look into alternate programs that might fit his needs. Also, if he is not already working, encourage him to get a part time job- it may serve to demonstrate to him that this likely the type of job he will be doing the rest of his life if he doesn’t do well in school.</p>
<p>Isn’t he exactly the kind of “angular” kid who some of the top colleges are LIKELY to accept?</p>
<p>Yes, I think so too. But then you have to ask yourself, will he succeed in a demanding program where he WILL have to take a variety of subjects, or are you just setting him up for failure???</p>
<p>“He has such disdain for the whole college admissions process where his classmates will do many unethical things to get good grades.”</p>
<p>I’m sorry, but that sounds like a cop-out argument not to try. What other kids are doing is not an excuse not to try. It would be one thing IF he tried his best and others cheated and bested him. But, to not do your best and using “others” as an excuse is just a lame excuse to be lazy.</p>
<p>Is that my only recourse?
NO! Encourage him to find colleges that are “like” MIT, but are not super reaches like MIT. There ARE colleges out there where he will find other super smart students like himself, and where he can thrive and be challenged. Harvey Mudd, Carnegie Melon, Chicago all come to mind. He ,and you need to have some safeties where he is likely to be accepted, as MIT is much more competitive than it once was.</p>
<p>You should encourage your son to go through the MIT course catalogue and maybe sit in on an online class. Let him see how demanding the HASS courses are (Humanities, Arts, Social Sciences) and let him realize that if he wants to raise his game the time to start is now.</p>
<p>Or not- there are plenty of great schools that would be thrilled to have your son. But my son knew plenty of very “angular” math and science prodigy types at MIT- but virtually all of them had strong strengths in at least one other non-science area. (Music, writing, history, etc.) We were also very surprised at commencement to see the number of dual majors who combined Literature/Mechanical Engineering, or Applied Math/Music, Political Science/Electrical Engineering, etc. Not for any vocational reason… but just for the love of the subject.</p>
<p>So if he wants MIT he has time to plug away at raising his game.</p>
<p>Many fine tech schools that have fewer humanities requirements however, and he may find his “peeps” there.</p>
<p>MIT or any other school, including state schools, not worrying about grades is a worng attitude that will lead to great disappointments in a future. I feel that work ethic is more important than talents. Talented people understand that they need to work hard to achieve their goals. Not Cliche, talking from experience.</p>
<p>
He won’t get into MIT if he’s not motivated, however bright he may be.</p>
<p>I agree that cheating by other students is no excuse for not doing your best.
Bright but unmotivated students do NOT get into top schools like MIT. I overhead two Harvard adcoms discussing a student with a B or B+ average and perfect board scores and saying they did not want to admit underachievers; such students would struggle in college because they lacked good work habits.
MIT cares for students who are willing to try and try again, and take failure in their stride. Not students who give up for bogus reasons. And other people’s unethical behavior is a bogus reason for not trying one’s best.</p>
<p>bogibogi - I sent you a private message…</p>
<p>You asked “Do we continue to nag, cajole, threaten or do we leave him alone?”</p>
<p>Do nagging, cajoling, threatening even work? I don’t think so. How do you feel when someone nags, cajoles or threatens you?</p>
<p>Will these actions hurt your relationship? yes.</p>
<p>Did OP ever say how “bad” his grades are? If so, I missed it.</p>
<p>I totally agree with Mom2College…take him on a visit to MIT at a time when the admissions people are not busy with applications, incoming freshman etc. and they will be more than happy to tell your son what he needs to do. This always worked quite well with my boys to have admissions people point how the path. Bottom line is there are plenty of challenging engineering schools if he can’t pull it together for MIT. It’s often difficult to get 15 or 16 year old boys to make the connection between “today” and years down the road.</p>
<p>He sounds a little like my son, who is the same age. Do you think that he has a lack of respect for subjects other than math? My son seems to have a built-in contempt for English and other subjects that require mostly reading. He thinks that the kids who do well in these subjects are not necessarily “smart,” because only people good at math are “smart.” </p>
<p>I noticed these tendencies back in middle school, so I made it a project to talk a lot about literature and history - various writers, etc. and their contributions to society, and why these subjects are so important. I also talk about how critical it is to not be one dimensional and while his math talents are wonderful, he needs to have a full range of skills. Gradually, he has come to respect these subjects and he has really mastered history (yeah!) this year and he is working on English. I think some of this also stems from insecurity about his writing skills - it’s easy to denigrate something you’re not good at - and he’s working to improve those skills.</p>
<p>I don’t think sitting back is your only recourse. Your son obviously isn’t lazy, he’s just undisciplined, so I would insert a little discipline into his life. For example, do you require that he finish his homework at a certain time of the day or at least that he do his homework or give him any kind of schedule like that (example: from 4-6 on weekdays you need to be home working on your homework assignments or if you finish early you need to be reading for your next English assignment. If you don’t do this the consequence is you have to do X or you can’t have X). It might sound like a bit much, but speaking from experience, its hard to institute good disciplined study habits on your own if you’re naturally a bit more of a free thinker. And it will be really important that he learn to buckle down not just to things that really interest him, but also to the things that don’t. He’ll need that skill at MIT. </p>
<p>Does he have a big calendar over his desk where he can see all of his assignments as they come up? Have you tried reaching out to the teachers in the classes he’s struggling in and asking if you can get some kind of email or other update with major assignments so you can help him stay organized? </p>
<p>You don’t need to nag, but it’s perfectly reasonable for a parent to set out expectations that the child needs to meet. For example: You must get at least a B in English each quarter in order to drive the car, stay out till X time, go out with friends on weeknights, receive a certain level of allowance, get a job, play video games on weekdays, etc. These don’t need to be threatening, they are just consequences of not meeting reasonable expectations for academic performance from a very smart child. Don’t create a consequence you’re not willing to follow through on (I doubt, for example, you would really want him to quit math team, so don’t threaten that) or that you can’t enforce, but there are absolutely reasonable steps you can take to help him become more disciplined about his work.</p>
<p>Slightly different perspective. As other posters have mentioned MIT isn’t the only school he would be happy with. (That’s not the slightly different perspective part). If he doesn’t care about grades then he sounds like me. I was interested in learning but I didn’t care what my grades looked like. I also hate competition. You might want to check out Reed college. They used to not even give grades, each professor would give a written evaluation of each student in his class. They got too many complaints from graduate programs to continue along these lines because it was too hard for the programs to evaluate applicants. So they give grades now, but they are not heavily emphasized. If your son likes to delve into challenging math and science questions it would be a good place for him. He also might like CalTech or Harvey Mudd.</p>
<p>But will he get into Caltech with poor grades? or Harvey Mudd?</p>
<p>A kid like that probably needs to go to a university, and not LAC (he will need to have graduate level math courses available)</p>
<p>I think he sounds like a great kid. My kids were also disillusioned and disappointed by peers’ behavior around college admissions, including the kind of cheating described. Your son goes to a competitive school, which may also have a depressing atmosphere for a kid who is sensitive to false motives and hypocrisy, as a lot of teens are.</p>
<p>Rather than trying to fit the kid to the school, I would suggest trying to fit the school to the kid. In other words, certainly he can apply to MIT, but start introducing him to other schools. State schools tend to be pretty good for math. Maybe even schools like Oberlin or Macalaster.</p>
<p>I would emphasize appreciation of your son’s values, including his authenticity. Clearly he is a hard worker when the work is meaningful for him. When he has goals that are meaningful for him, in a few years, I predict his work ethic will even extend to work that is not meaningful, in the context of those larger, meaningful goals.</p>
<p>Also, try to find schools that do not have lots of distribution requirements! State schools tend to have quite a few. Schools I know of that don’t include Brown, Amherst, and alternative schools like Hampshire, Bennington, Sarah Lawrence, Marlboro (and Reed, as someone mentioned) And, of course, other schools that are good for math and technology: a lot of kids we know who have the same interests end up at WPI, for instance.</p>
<p>I think your son will do fine. Let him be himself and he will find his way. It is cool that he is enthusiastic about math, and spends a lot of time on it on his own. The kids who work too hard on all subjects, just so that they can get into a certain school, often end up crashing later, when they get there. Let him develop naturally, and emphasize the positive to help him get there.</p>
<p>With his demonstrated math aptitude I think he’ll get into MIT. I was under the impression that it was the non-math areas where his grades weren’t that good.</p>
<p>Please tell us what his grades are. We may be having a completely different discussion if we actually know what his grades are. Some people think a B is “bad” and someone else’s “bad” may be a D or F.</p>