Advice from a Professional

College Majors Musical Theater Major
1

<p>This is an interesting bit of advice we received from a theatre professional. The advice is reframing how we are looking at this process and seems to go against the grain of some philosophies I have read on CC so I put it up for comment. </p>

<hr>

<p>My feeling is that the quality of the students with whom xxxxxx trains will have as much to do with her growth as her teachers. There are hundreds of excellent teachers spread throughout the myriad professional actor training programs in the U.S. However, it can be like working in a vacuum if one does not have the opportunity to daily put what they teach into practice with other students of equal abilities. It is unfortunate that there are only a handful of undergraduate training programs where this will occur and there are more students who possess the necessary talent, intellect, desire, looks, unique intangibles, and MATURITY than they can accommodate. There are untold numbers of students who may have one or more of the needed qualities, but they lack at least one and each is of utmost importance if one is to have a go at the world of professional theatre at the tender age of twenty-two with any real hope of long lasting success. </p>

<p>Another unfortunate truth is that professional actor training has now become a lucrative business on the undergraduate collegiate level. The number of programs has swollen to a point that there are not nearly enough prospective students with all the necessary qualities to fill them out. Think of it like football. Every community in the country has a few athletes who may play at the collegiate level, fewer at the Division I-A level, and most Division I-A schools have at least one who may stand a chance at playing in the NFL. This is all fine and well for entertaining the local high school and college communities and is a passion for those involved. There is certainly no crime in that. But what if each of the Division I-A schools got the bright idea to convince their administrations and the NCAA to allow them to change their curriculums to allow for a football major and started calling themselves “professional training programs?” You and I both know that the talent pool simply does not exist for it to mean much of anything and the best would naturally tend to gravitate towards those programs with a rich football tradition and a record of success in the sport by its alumni. They usually do so anyway. It is no different when considering those who hope to be adequately prepared for a life in the professional theatre by the age of twenty-two and in the case of theatre, the positive influence of one’s peers in a professional level ensemble is vastly more important for one's growth than being a standout. </p>

<p>My advice is to have your daughter audition for the schools you have mentioned. She is very talented and should be accepted to at least one. If she gets caught in the numbers game due to her height or other factors, have her attend WSU or Whitman, perform as much as possible, live a little outside the nest, and try again the next year. If that fails, have her continue to perform, acquire the necessary professional references, attend summer intensives, and save professional actor training for the graduate level. That is, after all, the path most actors who have realized her aspiration followed. I would not recommend that she attend a second tier training program where she would still need graduate school to maximize her abilities. There would be too much of a risk of burnout on such a long course and too much temptation to make a go of it with the incomplete training she would likely receive.</p>

<p>Best,</p>

2

<p>Hi Wally,</p>

<p>I am interested to hear why you think this advice goes against the grain based on what you have read on CC? In my mind, it affirms a lot of it. I want my D to find a rich program where she can grow as a performer and get an education as well. I think most of us here feel the same way your friend does in that there are a myriad of reasons why a student does not get into a particular program(female, too tall, too thin, too many sopranos, too many blondes etc.....). CC has taught us to consider a lot of areas in the college decision and then to make the right choice. Some will chose a conservatory program, some a BFA, some a BM or BA - all different yet all potentially leading to a career in the arts- not necessarily the 'professional' stage but a career just as well.</p>

<p>We all know - at least I think we all do - that breaking in this field is often luck and looks (see the new Superman for a prime example!) but true success comes from nuturing your passion, learning as much as possible and then finding something you love to do!</p>

<p>Thank you for sharing this letter!
MikksMom</p>

3

<p>I see how it goes against the grain...the whole "second tier" thing is a bit of a touchy one, and always ends up with a lot of posters saying a million different reason for a million different schools, and then it gets back to rankings, and that always just turns out to be a debate about how that's not important at all...but that's how message boards are, but this place is still a goldmine.</p>

<p>Interesting information, thanks</p>

4

<p>I have been told basically the same thing. The implication is that the pro thinks Wally's daughter should go Ivy or wait until graduate school. It does go against the grain on this forum but I don't think it is a bad idea if what she wants to do is Shakespeare and Chekhov etc. in the big regional theatres. Most of those actors have masters degrees or come from a small group of elite conservatories. It wouldn't mean as much for those who want to exclusively do musicals or screen acting in NY and LA. I have been told it is best to get your start as young as possible for that. However, there is no denying that a well attended showcase and a prestigious name on your resume will be a big help straight out of school. I completely agree about the benefits of training with an elite ensemble as well. I think we all know which schools those are by now so we hopefully won't go there again.</p>

5

<p>I can see where she's coming from as far as going against the grain.. this particular person thinks her daughter should not settle for a second tier school... when something emphasized on these forums is the ability to find happiness in any mt school regardless of "rank".</p>

6

<p>Ckp; is that cynicism a way of life or on again off again? :) What is your opinion?</p>

<p>MTGeek; You need to read things more carefully. Wally is not a she and “I” did not say anything like “I didn’t think my daughter should settle for a second tier school”. I am not sure I could adequately list/describe what a second tier school is. </p>

<p>There is plenty to say for “happy” and “fit” and all that, yet I am on the verge of spending probably the better part of $200k to educate a kid in the world of performing arts and It seems that trying to figure out the way to do this to help (as best you can) ensure a modicum of success after college is a smart thing to do. Not that I have figured out how to do that or I would not have asked for thoughts/comments on this topic. </p>

<p>I realize the whole randomness, luck, fate, stars alignment, etc but the choice of ones school has to have some correlation to success. Right?</p>

<p>For the sake of clarification our daughter is interested in straight drama not MT and I realize I am on the MT forum but the arts acting program thread seems to be presently lifeless.</p>

7

<p>First off, as far as settling for a second tier school, I was referring to what the "theatre professional" said, not what you said, WallysWorld. As the professional said, and I quote, “I would not recommend that she attend a second tier training program where she would still need graduate school to maximize her abilities.” All I was saying was pretty much what CKP already mentioned.. We can all understand why it is a touchy subject as any kind of school ranking anywhere can be challenged by anyone with a subjective opinion.</p>

<p>I guess what you’re looking for is actual advice rather than random comments about the letter… and as someone who is currently a college freshman and has already gone through this process, I would make a list of what it is exactly that your child wants in a performing arts education. Is she looking for more of a conservatory training where everything is intensive? Is she looking for more of a liberal arts background to implement with her training? Once you have figured it out, you can obviously begin singling out particular programs. And instead of following the advice of this one theatre professional, seek out many theatre professionals and see if you can find a general consensus about particular schools. However, ultimately you may just need to end up following your gut as far as different schools go. If that means waiting until your student is in grad school, then that may just be the path for daughter</p>

<p>Just so you know though, you'll never find the right answer. Many people end up searching in vain for the school of their dreams only to realize at one point that they just need to close their eyes and jump right in by following their gut to whatever school fits them best at the time. At times, you can only realize if a school isnt for you until youve actually attended the particular college. This becomes an issue financially, so if you're not able to take that risk right away maybe this field is not quite right for you and your family quite yet. </p>

<p>PS: Wallys gender wasn’t exactly specified, so I apologize. I’ll make sure to “read things more carefully” next time</p>

8

<p>MT No problem. Thats the kind of advice/thoughts I am looking for.. Why is it "a touchy subject?" Thanks</p>

9

<p>Well in general its not a touchy subject... but on here, it tends to be. Mainly because there are many parents who post here who are also spending thousands of dollars to send their kids to some of the second tier schools that you may be thinking of. To tell you the truth though, there really is no such thing because different programs work for different performers. For example, I did really poorly in high school, mainly because I was soo wrapped up in my theatre activities and things outside of school, that school work always came last. So for me, a conservatory program was something I was looking for; Long hours of studio experience, applying myself and being active in something I loved. If I was going to do any academic work involving essays and books, I wanted to write about Shakespeare and read Tennessee Williams... not read a Western Civilzation text book and write essays on the depression. This is why I chose to look into schools like Boston Conservatory and AMDA. However, I did have friends who were as equally committed to the arts who were also academically driven. So those students looked at schools like Emerson and NYU, where talent is looked at as well as academic qualifications. To make a long story short, there is no definitive list of second tier schools. Your daughter is the one who must decide what a second tier school is in her eyes, and not based on what someone else said. However, to receive objective opinions to help in the search, look for people who know things about many programs who can lead your daughter to a school best fitting her qualifications and take it from there. All in all, there is no such thing as a second rate school. To a more academically driven student, a conservatory may be second rate as they dont take your grades into account as much. Where as a person like me would think the most of a conservatory acceptance. Hope this helps :)</p>

10

<p>I don't think when people were talking about second teir they ment the difference between conservatories and non-cons, it's more like the best conserv and the best non conserv and then the second best, but it is a touchy subject on here, because everyone is allowed their on opinions and no one wants to offend someone and if you voice what you think is the best or what you think is "obviously" the best, you could very well insult someone, or your opinion could be the opposite of anothers.</p>

<p>But as always, different schools for different people...</p>

11

<p>The notion of "first tier", "second tier" etc. is a bit slippery, as you point out. Assume that "first tier" schools attract the strongest students and have the largest pools of applicants (I was hearing between 600 to 1000 at schools like CCM, Syracuse, Ithaca, etc.). If the strongest students enroll at these "first tiers," then is it the school who "makes" the performer or the performer who, already strong, does well and bolsters the reputation of the school. I am intrigued by the number of students who attend top tier schools but drop out in their first years to do professional work, well before the school has had an opportunity to work its magic on their performance skills. I am EXTREMELY committed to the idea that education and training are critical, but it certainly makes me wonder about putting all the eggs in the "top tier" basket....</p>

12

<p>Hrmmm … I was going to leave this one alone, but I guess I’ll go ahead and step in it at the risk of having to wipe it off my shoe … I think CoachC got it pretty much right for MT here if you’re going to rank. I also agree with ckp that it gets touchy because there are so many parents and students from the various schools who post here. Everybody likes to think where they go is “top” and they’ll bristle at any suggestion that it’s not. I’m not going to name names, but I think it’s pretty clear that there is indeed a “top tier” of “Ivies” that collect the lion’s share of the top talent – “blue chippers” if you will – with perhaps a few others legitimately vying for that respect. I think if you dig deeper with those pimping the others, you’ll find that most auditioned for Ivies and that’s where they’d be had they been accepted short having received some kind of monster scholarship. But hey … Like the original advice giver said, that small group of schools at the top can’t accommodate all the students with the necessary qualities. If a couple of programs start collecting enough of those who couldn’t be accommodated, they could potentially gain that respect after a time and join the "top tier." Perhaps some already have. All it would take is a couple of outstanding classes coming out and setting the world on fire. I think Actressfosho pretty much hit the nail on the head about the rest as far as the original advice goes.</p>

13

<p>I have not been too active on CC lately - but I thought I'd chime in here....</p>

<p>The "professional" offers some reasonable insights. I do not see them as going against or with "the grain". I love the analogy to football - it is really quite on the mark. The college football-to-NFL football analogy is closer to the truth than Wallyworld or the "professional" knows. In general, the fact that many aspire to a career few are actually able to pursue is very accurate. While there are probably twenty or so firmly established, perenially popular, football programs in the country, the truth is, the NFL is populated with scores upon scores of players who are not from those particular schools that get all the TV coverage and hype. Today, this very day, the roster of every NFL team will have representation from an average of over 45 schools. Of course, these are not all the same 45 schools on each team - I do not know the sum total of schools represented in the NFL - I do know that that there are hundreds of players who did not attend a top twenty-five school. In like fashion, many folks working in performing arts did not attend the "handful" of programs the "professional" advisor refers to.</p>

<p>Another interesting point of analogy. In this year's NFL draft, the players drafted in the first two rounds (those being the most highly valued players) represented 43 schools. Of those most highly regarded 11 programs (based on the final rankings from last year) only an average 2.2 players were drafted per top 11 team. Think of that, 2.2 seniors drafted - while graduating about 20 - 30 seniors from top ranked schools. Again, I have said this before, going to what you percieve as a top school in no remote way guarantees a student's future success.</p>

<p>There has been some discussion infering that the "top" programs are the conservatory style programs and the more academic programs are not the "top" programs - this is simply not true - it is not black and white - there is a spectrum of of excellence in institutions offering both styles of training. Further, as genres of training, there are positive arguements one could make for either style.</p>

<p>I fully understand that many young people out there (and their parents) would desperately like there to be some clear-cut answers - they would love an accurate, honest ranking of programs - that ranking, as a scientific, statistically valid piece of work does not exist. Further, I know you would like a guarantee that if you pay $xxx thousands of dollars to attend top tier schools that you then get some "magic key" which will allow you to make a life in performing arts - again, it does not exist.</p>

<p>The "professional" does accurately attest to the fact that many programs will tell you how good they are, and why you should attend their school - what, I think, is left out, is that the handful of top schools referred to do exactly the same thing....just as dastardly if you realize that having graduated from a particular school has very limited shelf life in your career. What actually matters is your talent, audition, and (once you're in a show) your work ethic, ability to get along decently with others; in general being someone directors, choreographers, and music directors are interested in working with again - and that you have decent representation.</p>

<p>Having said all that - I am not against attending a top tier school - it is simply that I believe there are close to 30 top tier schools where the training you receive will provide you the tools you need to succeed. I know many educators and professionals - there are pluses and some surprizing minuses at even the very best of the very best institutions. </p>

<p>I do not want to write a book here - I've said all of this before.</p>

<p>The main thing is to do your research, make campus visits, narrow it down to a short list - then try, as best you can to see productions at the schools you think you might like. Talk to faculty and students - find out what fits you best. Rankings would be a short cut - but accurate rankings of MT programs is mythological. Short cuts in life often lead to dead ends.</p>

14

<p>Mtdog71 – You made some good points but I totally disagree that there are “close to 30 top tier schools.” That would include MOST of the schools you have to audition for! There are more like 5 and definately less than 10. I liked the way coachc put it when she said,
[quote]
It may be GREAT academically, have great facilities, etc. - but that doesn't mean it is among those regarded as a top school by the people who do the HIRING.

[/quote]
Given that an MT performer with realistic professional potential needs to have the RARE ability to be skilled in not one but THREE areas, “the professional’s” advice that the talent pool isn’t big enough to fill them all would have to be more true for MT than even classical acting like "the professional's" advice was intended for. But you are right that it doesn't mean you HAVE to go to a top tier school to be successful. </p>

<p>Gadad said something on the drama colleges thread in response to someone that was basing her whole college search around scholarship opportunities at second tier schools that I thought was poinient enough to mark and I think it is relevant here.
[quote]
I'm quite certain that the best predictor of future aspirations and standards for onesself is the quality of the peer group. If it's acting and only acting you're seeking, you need to be among the finest, most passionate, most committed acting students you can find. If your interests are broader and more varied, you need to be among the best and most intellectually-curious students you can find at a school that also has a respected theatre program. I am convinced that the quality of the teaching in the Ivy League is not much better than at your state college - in many circumstances, it will not be as good or as dedicated as a state college professor's. But the real value in going to Yale is spending the four most formative years of your life being influenced by peers who also got into Yale. In short, I'd take a good look at the students who go to the schools you consider. In four years - for better or worse - you will be more like them than you are today.

[/quote]
Nobody suggested that a conservatory is always the best approach for an MT performer. There are huge differences between the first tier MT schools and they are not all conservatories. However as I said before, I think “the professional’s” advice was intended more for serious classical acting and the overwhelming majority of the actors doing that at the top levels of regional theatre do come from the top tier acting conservatories if they don’t have a masters degree or studied acting in the UK like I hope to do.</p>

15

<p>We don't know who "the professional" is but we do know that coachc is one of the few people on this group that really knows what she is talking about so here is her old post in case some didn't pick up on Fishbowlfreshman's link. :)</p>

<hr>

<p>In my longtime experience, first as a high school teacher and then as a vocal coach focused more exclusively on helping students prepare for conservatory auditions, there really is NO reliable list. In fact, those books are SO inaccurate I tell my students to stay away from them. Often, they simply reflect programs which have struck some kind of deal with the book publishers - as was just pointed out here, many of them don't even include CMU, for example, and NO ONE would deny that CMU is perpetually a top MT program! </p>

<p>The only thing that has EVER worked, in my experience, as a way of ranking MT schools is to:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>First and foremost, talk to people who are ALREADY working, preferably at the New York level (and by this I mean Broadway or off - just being "in NYC" doesn't count) or top regional levels. They know whose work they respect and where those people have gone to school. Barring this possibility (and of course it is not possible for everyone), go to playbill.com and read the bios of people currently in shows - you'll see who has listed their schools, indicating that they are proud to claim affiliation, and which schools recur. This is highly significant because you see who is CURRENTLY working - and that doesn't reflect "fads" in the business, it reflects which schools' training is keeping up with hiring TRENDS - which is incredibly important!!!</p></li>
<li><p>Gather info from students at various schools and from excellent, INFORMED sources like this board to compile a list of what seem to be important factors both overall and for you as a potential student. For example, many places which claim to be "top programs" don't have senior showcases - and I can't imagine anyone from CMU, CCM, UM, or any of the other top schools that do big showcases saying "You're right, showcase is NOT important." Some definitely WILL tell you it didn't pan out - but for those whom it DID pan out, they certainly consider it important! Again, the showcase factor needs to be weighed after talking to people from VARIOUS programs WHO ARE WORKING AT THE TOP LEVEL!!!!</p></li>
</ol>

<p>By the same token, many schools claim "impressive master class guests," "visits from working professionals," "many grads hired right out of school or while they are still in school," and "professionally working faculty" as if they are rarieties among programs. No no no! Rather, those should be MINIMUM requirements for a truly "top" program! ALL top programs have these elements - they are NOT rare! Nothing frustrates me more than having a student come back from a college visit espousing the "unique" excellence of a program only to have to be the bad cop and tell the student, "That's not uncommon" or worse "That's simply not true." </p>

<ol>
<li>Know that you can get a GREAT education at a program that is NOT a "top" program. Most important is you need to find the best fit for YOU. However, as MT casting directors and directors see it, the factors indicating what makes a "top program" generally tend to be:</li>
</ol>

<p>a. a highly developed skill set - this goes without saying - including acting, vocal technique, musicianship, dance or movement </p>

<p>b. audition readiness and excellence - how much a student or grad can come into the room "owning" his material, having made truly appropriate and STRONG choices in both material and the presentation of that material; having music which is prepared ABSOLUTELY correctly (oh, the stories of BFA programs who turn their kids out into the world kind of CLUELESS about such things - NO BFA grad should have to come to a private coach like me to learn about these things!); ability to take adjustments quickly and retain them</p>

<p>c. overall professionalism - knowing HOW to prepare for rehearsal and always BEING prepared, pleasant demeanor, etc.</p>

<p>d. working knowledge of the business of the business</p>

<p>e. the fact that the above three elements are evident ACROSS THE BOARD in a program's students (not simply evident in selected students from any program)</p>

<p>So students and parents, once you start to become familiar with the top schools (the standard list usually includes: CCM, CMU, NYU, UM, NC School of the Arts, BoCo, Northwestern - with MANY "2nd tier" schools such as Wagner, Otterbein, Point Park, etc.), be wary of any school that you haven't heard a lot about that claims to be a "top school." It may be GREAT academically, have great facilities, etc. - but that doesn't mean it is among those regarded as a top school by the people who do the HIRING. Again, people can go to school ANYWHERE and work - or not go to school at all!!! - but I get so frustrated (obviously) by schools which make false claims of "top school-hood" - it makes me think maybe those schools THEMSELVES are clueless about where they stand in the bigger professional picture, or perhaps even worse, that they are selling prospective students a false product. If a school aspires to enter the ranks of top programs and needs to recruit top talent in order to be able to do this, I think that school should be HONEST, just like college sports teams are (ok, in general ) when trying to lure D-I candidates to a D-II or D-III school: "We might not be School X, but we are building our program and we want players like you in order to be able to do so."</p>

<p>On that note, the University of Michigan gives auditionees an EXCELLENT list of "things to look for when choosing a Musical Theatre program" (not the exact title but something like that) - and it is NOT at all designed to favor Michigan. (That's another thing I have found with most truly top schools - they don't need to trumpet that they ARE a top school, because their product, the students and grads, are all of the PR they need.) The extensive list of questions ranges from "Do you want a B.A. or a BFA?" to "Where are grads working?" I always thought it was a shame that students didn't get this UNTIL their Michigan audition - perhaps the School of Music would share it if a parent or student asked for it. I don't feel is it appropriate for me to post the list here since it is truly such a valuable resource developed by UM and I wouldn't want anyone to appropriate it and claim it as their own.</p>

<p>Hope this helps some of you!</p>

16

<p>And here is the Michigan list she talked about that dancersmom later posted.</p>

<hr>

<ol>
<li>What kind of degree is offered? BFA? BA? (These 2 degrees are philosophically quite different.) Is the BFA designed specifically for MT, or just for theatre in general? </li>
<li>How large is the program? Where do the students come from? What is the make-up of the student body? Does the size of the university have an impact on the program? </li>
<li>What is the response of current students? Is the environment at the school supportive, creative, stimulating? Do casting policies for productions seem fair and ethical? (It is particularly useful to speak with seniors and graduates.) Does the program have a philosophical approach to education/training which is clearly stated to the students? </li>
<li>Where are the graduates working? </li>
<li>How large are the classes, especially those which are performance related? </li>
<li>What is the faculty/student relationship? Ratio? Do the students primarily have faculty members as teachers, or graduate assistants? </li>
<li>How many musicals are presented each year? What are the casting policies? How are the shows chosen? What are examples of past productions? </li>
<li>Does the school promote new works? </li>
<li>Do the students have opportunities to be in plays as well as musicals? What about opera, dance concerts, films, and recitals? </li>
<li>Do the students have the opportunity to perform in theatres of differing sizes (opera house to "black box") and differing styles (proscenium to in-the-round)? </li>
<li>Are the students taught specifically about the field as a profession, and how to go about making a living after they graduate? (Equity, agents, casting directors, audition techniques, commercial and non-profit theatres, etc.) </li>
<li>How well do the music department and the theatre department cooperate? Dowes the school have a dance department? (Almost always, the real success of a musical theatre program lies at the core of the inter-disciplinary relationship of these three areas.) </li>
<li>Does the faculty work professionally away from the school? </li>
<li>How often does the school bring in professionals to work with or speak to the students? </li>
<li>Does the school have a cut or review policy? What are the standards a student must maintain in order to remain in the program, and how is this monitored? </li>
<li>How complete is the school's library of musical theatre resource materials? (Songs, scores, scripts, vocal books, etc., are often rare, unpublished, or out-of-print.) </li>
<li>Is the program of department firmly established? How long has it been in existence? How is it regarded by people in the profession, such as casting directors and agents?</li>
</ol>

17

<p>Well, while I am not a 'professional' or a coach, I am a mom who has just gone through the past three years of researching, and visiting MANY campuses. We did our research-calling schools and asking all the questions; visiting the schools and asking all the questions; narrowing the schools down and auditioning...still asking questions!! I felt that we had a list of top schools to visit...all were very impressive on paper, all listed here on CC, all had a following of truly dedicated, accomplished people who felt their choice was best. After visiting the schools, my d was easily able to "cut" half of the schools off of her list! (I love saying WE cut!!!) This does not mean the schools were not top rate schools, just not a match for my d! Even after auditioning at the schools, she felt differently and narrowed her selection even futher. She ended with three schools that she KNEW she would be happy to go to. My point...it is very personal...what may be top tier for one, may not be for another. If each of us were to "rank" the top schools, I believe each list would be different...and no one would be wrong or right. All of the schools my d auditioned to were top notch, top training. However; only a few left HER with the wow factor...and it was usually the school that we least expected! My advise is to ask questions...all of the questions here are the ones needed to be asked, but, also ask YOUR questions....(you know, the ones you are wondering if you should ask!!??) So, good luck to all...we are on our way to the next level....and we are so very excited. (Orientation was yesterday, so d is ready to go and mom and dad feel great about the choice that was made!) You are well on your way!!</p>

18

<p>I thank actressfosho for the shout out to me, but of course there are many knowledgeable people here. :) I think what I can offer that may be different from most who post here is more anecdotes of things that actually happen at various schools once you get beyond the audition process, since I have many "kids" who go through MT college programs, and also the perspective of what happens to this comparatively large sample of BFA and BA grads once they hit NYC, LA, or their regional markets - a sample which is made larger by also getting to know many of their peers well, which adds to my "young working MT actor" story base. That's why I focused my advice (which was recently re-posted here) on talking to young working MT actors to get MANY perspectives on CURRENT paths to a professional career - which is very different from talking to older actors (as educational theatre trends have really changed in a short time) and also very different from talking to those focused in straight (non-MT) acting. The question of, "Do I go the liberal arts route and then get an MFA?" IS a big debate in theatre ed, as Wally's professional source pointed out - but that is for straight theatre, not MT. (I have been meaning to reiterate that distinction, astutely made by actressfosho.) </p>

<p>I think I have posted about this before, but the reason is that MT performers really need to be triple threats or at least approach this to have maximum hireability in today's MT market. (Not just Broadway but at any level.) There are some young actors who love acting first and really want to work as performers, regardless of medium - but there are also plenty who love music or dance first and truly want to try to BASE their careers around MT. To do so, they need to be taking voice, theory (for sightsinging, an important skill in the professional world), at least fundamental piano (to teach themselves music and also to be able to accompany themselves if they ever want to coach as a sideline), a LOT of acting (of course!!!), as much dance as they can, and performance and audition technique classes which pull various threads of training (acting, singing, music theory) together. This foundation will give them the opportunity to work as performers and also in the production end of MT (as choreographers, directors, music directors, etc.) There are 3 basic ways to get this comprehensive training: a BFA MT program; a BA program with all of the elements I just listed that also allows a non-BFA access to those elements; or living in NYC, Chicago, etc, and cobbling together your own training program while auditioning and working. I do NOT recommend that latter for MOST people, for reasons too myriad to go into here. Also, the need to work on all the elements I listed varies depending on the students' prior training in the area - but even the most trained dancers and musicians (the 2 areas where student usually have achieved professional proficiency before entering school) can improve and continue to expand their skills sets in their expert areas, which often leads them to production staff jobs while still in school. (For example, one of the UM senior MT's is going right from her Equity debut at PCLO to working as a dance teacher and choreographer at MPulse and has also been hired by a UM faculty person to do a periodic professional dance gig during the school year.)</p>

<p>And notfromme is SO right – after all of the facts and opinions about training have been weighed, ultimately the school must feel RIGHT for a specific student. So juniors, learn the facts, understand the prevailing opinions and the conflicts in those opinions, ask the right questions (UM's list posted here is a great place to start), and then make the choice that is best for YOU! The schools will help, believe it or not – b/c they will select you if they feel you are a great fit for them – and much as it can hurt to not achieve admission at your top choice, everything really DOES work out as it’s meant to. I know, I sound like a mom, right? :) But I can give you 10 MT college audition examples of that right off the top of my head!</p>

19

<p>CoachC...oh so very true: Everything does happen for a reason! And the match does seem to be mutual...I never really thought of it like that. By the way, your posts helped us out tremendously....big thanks from this family! Your coaching reaches so very many people!</p>

20

<p>Thanks, notfromme!!! :)</p>

<p>Buuuut I make mistakes too (of course!!!) - one of the many knowledgeable people here just emailed me this correction to my "3 basic paths" idea:</p>

<p>You forgot a 4th! :-)</p>

<p>4) Go to Neighborhood Playhouse, where they offer intense acting, plus
voice and dance, add to the basic ballet they offer by going to Broadway
Dance Center and taking jazz/tap, and finish in two years....to hit the
pavement!</p>

<p>This (4) is a variant of your (3) without the working and auditioning part. </p>

<p>My take on this:
That's correct - although still not something I would recommend to most students, as a college degree of any sort proves your trainability in many non-MT fields and provides an entree to many types of grad and professional schools (even med school after picking up some credits, believe it or not). In addition, Billy Hartung, who is a journeyman actor (in the best, traditional sense of the word) who now resides in Pittsburgh (his hometown) and heads the MT program at the Pittsburgh Creative and Performing Arts High School (as well as working a lot here) after playing Chuck Cranston in the original Bway cast of FOOTLOOSE, being a featured dancer in the CHICAGO movie, and many other big gigs, once gave impassioned advice to one of my students about how how glad he was to have had a college degree when things were going badly for him with auditions - not b/c he had something to "fall back on," but because he felt as if his training in the business of the business was invaluable (he is a Point Park grad from the 80's) and also because that degree gave him confidence when the business was not providing that, as it was tangible proof of an "education." I realize that 2-year programs are as just as "educational" in many ways as 4-year programs, and also realize that I share his reverence for education as a whole and therefore his particular bias - and I have never met a more grounded guy who is also supremely talented and successful as a performer. (He didn't leave NYC for lack of work but rather b/c he wanted to raise his children near the rest of his family.) However, I know that some students simply don't want college - and I also know that the person who emailed me this other alternative is a firm believer in education whose MT child made an informed choice to pursue a 2-year program. As we always say, there are many different paths to success! :)</p>