Advice from a Professional

College Majors Musical Theater Major
41

<p>actressfosho,</p>

<p>I think you will be in for a rude awakening once you go off to college. No program is going to put up with such a biting attitude such as yours. I believe I can speak for most parents and students who are expereinced in the MT/Acting programs that if you exhibit such trantrums in schools you will be shown the door. Certainly you know that performing is a collective contribution and one must work with all personality types, but the one you are showing will not be acceptable by any means.</p>

<p>I think I know the ones you speak of that have "told" you "things" you allude to in your rant above. Believe me these particular people have chips on their shoulders and it is way too sad if you listen to their jibberish as they are only upset because they were not allowed to return to this forum.</p>

<p>I think you have a lot to contribute. I have enjoyed reading your points of view even if I do not agree with some of them. That is what is nice about this forum we DO agree to disagree. It is obvious that you are a very astute person but please do not fly off the handle. It is NOT appealing. Be professional.</p>

42

<p>actressfosho,
You have support here. I don't think that expressing thoughts clearly and honestly constitutes a tantrum. This is a forum with room for your views which are shared by many people. Thank you.</p>

43

<p>ABSOLUTELY!! NO ONE is saying that actressfosho shouldn't state her opinions openly. However one needs to do so diplomatically. Tell me, do you really believe such an acid tongue response is going to fly in the face of a director? I think not. It's called discipline.</p>

44

<p>Tonight my book has stayed on the table since I choose to read this entertaining thread! Freedom of speech! Let's try to remember what the thread is about...hmmm....football? :) I LOVED the whole football comparison! Of course, I speak Basketball since I come from Hoosier-land...but I did understand what you were saying! I truly believe we could go to the end of the internet "discussing" top tier, second tier schools: who goes where and where that got them!! I think each of us has our own "ranking" system. I know I would get some replies if I were to list the schools we visited and the ones my d auditioned to. The list was narrowed by anything from the schools "cut" program (not that again!) to how we were treated. Silly to some, but we did walk away from certain schools feeling as if they did not care if we were even there!! Well, that is all over with, and she has chosen her school...we are all thrilled and ready to start this journey. Who knows where this will lead her. Her dream now is a broadway stage...of course! But, if her dream were to change, I will consider her journey to be successful as long as she finds happiness in what she is doing. After all, that is why we are all here....our children.....their dreams brought us here!</p>

45

<p>notfromme</p>

<p>very nicely said!</p>

46

<p>I am glad you do research on various people's (and your own) comments. In doing your research on the great things going on at Northwestern in the performing arts you surely must have come across the fact that Northwestern does not offer a degree in MT. I love the work they do there - however, if MT is your focus - you should be aware that it is not their primary focus - you can get a certificate in their MT program. The fact that they turn out good people underscores the point I have been making - that there a many programs where you can get the goods you need for a successful career in MT - even if they are not a conservatory, BFA, Top-Five, or whatever. Purchase is great at many things (but especially modern dance) - but they are a non-enitity when speaking of solid MT training programs.</p>

<p>On another subject, I know this has happened to me often, when we write and don't have the opportunity for immediate feedback and/or clarification - sometimes that communication gets derailed, different meanings or nuances are taken that were not intended. This often snowballs out of control and spirals to a bad place. This is a real problem with internet based communications. I think that might be what's happening on this thread. Having said that, I will offer that the level of civility on these MT threads is to be praised and emulated. The animinity of the internet has made it a place where it is common to take shots at other folks without consequence. This is not a good thing - really something that, at its best, is a playground for Drama Queens and, at its worst is ethically and morally reprehensible and destructive behaviour. So, do not argue that sarchasm (intended or not) is justifies by worse levels of sarcasm elsewhere on the internet. I believe there is probably a bit of miscommunication here that rolled into a larger misunderstanding. As to my own qualifications, I once posted those by accident to the whole group, I do like to take about me in public - but if you PM me I will respond.</p>

<p>Peace</p>

47

<p>MTMover - Three posts with two directed at me and the other is an obligatory slap at Tisch. What would an astute person make of that? And how in the WORLD would people speaking “jibberish” that were “not allowed to return to this forum” get in touch with me? No. The people that contacted me all have posting privileges and are prolific on the forum. I don't live on CC like some seem to do and don't talk to anyone except one student that went to my high school. I have never been called anything but a PLEASURE to work with by the teachers at my preprofessional training program, the members of its audition only ensemble or the professional directors, actors, designers and technical theatre people I have worked with. </p>

<p>Any attitude you see from me is how I would talk to a sketchy used car salesman that got pushy and an old bystander that tried to call me down for it because of my age. My parents taught me how to take care of myself, thank you very much. The subject of this forum is the single biggest investment you will make in your life. The purpose is to help avoid getting sold a clunker. There won't be any rude awakenings for me at university or in drama school except for the food and the drunks. Nice try! </p>

<p>Mtdog - I asked because you seem very knowledgable. However, there is no way for someone casually reading to weigh your advice vs. people like CoachC, Doctorjohn, Prof Himmelheber etc. and the well meaning moms that write well but whose main experience has been limited to one time through or half vicarious at best. I will assume you are somewhere in between. I think Northwestern has an MT certificate program that you audition for at the end of first year from looking at the forum although I admit I don't know the details because I didn't look at them very hard and relied on what my teachers told me about them. It isn't one of the places "we" go although some of our musicians have gone there in the past. </p>

<p>THIRTY ONE!!! FORTY TWO!!! HIKE HIKE!!! Isn’t that how they say it? I have to say that I don’t understand how they manage all the trash talk. You would think they would lose their voices if they didn’t run out of breath first! Would they teach a class in Trash Talking Technique at a Football BFA?</p>

48

<p>Can we change the subject?
I know, freedom of speech and everything, but this is starting to become a little waste of energy now.</p>

<p>Let's calm down... peace, everyone.</p>

<p>If you go back and read some of things written- it's not very productive. Let's stop fighting and get onto what these forums are about.</p>

<p>Stop the craziness!</p>

49

<p>
[quote]
Stop the craziness!

[/quote]
Holla that! But ...
[quote]
Would they teach a class in Trash Talking Technique at a Football BFA?

[/quote]
LMAO!!! Good one. :D</p>

50

<p>I think that this thread has strayed a bit far afield from WallyWorld's original post, which consisted of a letter written to (presumably) Wally and wife in regard to the future training of said couple's D. In a nutshell, the professional (Wally, how about telling us a little more about this professional. Is he/she a professional/Equity actor or musical theater person, or a college professor, or all of the above? It is always helpful to define such terms going in, at least for me! :)) posited that if Wally's D did not (for whatever reason) attain admittance to a "top tier" acting program out of the gate, the D should go to a good LAC and get training on the side, and then pursue an MFA, rather than studying at what the writer called a 'second tier' school. That set us all off to the races, debating over what a "top tier" school means and so on, which I guess is to be expected. It's too bad, imo, that the discussion had to degenerate into a heated argument, rather than continue as a spirited debate conducted in good humor. But our inability to really read each others' tone is one of the limits of email communication.
The point of this post? I dunno. I guess there isn't one! :) I just hope we can continue to communicate our sometimes differing opinions in a civilized way, as I learn so darn much here, including the fact that, despite what people want to think, there <em>are</em> indeed, schools that are considered "top tier" in both acting and MT, even though there is not a hard and fast list put out by the Musical Theater Education Association of America. (Made that up, by the way! :) ) Of course, not every student will gain admittance to those schools, but will do just fine (or better) even though their schools might not be considered Ivies. There are many routes to success. I should know: I attended what a snobbish young person recently deemed a "podunk" college myself, and am quite successful by most standards, if not world famous!
L</p>

51

<p>Perhaps people need to re-examine their goals. In any field their are megastars, and then the rest of us. This quest to find the "best" school which will somehow lead to the Tony awards is well, IN MY OPINION (notice I am stating this as my opinion, so please resist the tempation to flame me) just silly.</p>

<p>The school you attend will not get you (or your kid) that Tony, or Emmy or Oscar, or even that audition. Your (or their) hard work (and talent) might. THERE IS NO MAGIC FORMULA, no matter how much we wish there was. It IS a good thing to research your potential colleges and be sure they offer what you are looking for and that when you visit you feel "at home" there. Picking schools based on "mythical" rankings -- not a good idea!</p>

<p>Not everyone can (or wants to) attend Harvard, Princeton, Yale. Does that mean the thousands of kids who don't go there should give up on their educational goals? Of course not, and I believe that most of the people arguing on this thread would agree. Again not every computer wizard is Bill Gates or Steve Jobs (and yes, I know, they didn't have degrees from any university when they started their businesses). Does that mean that people should stop getting degrees in technological fields? I think not -- there are plenty of people doing just fine with engineering and technology degrees from universities ALL OVER THE COUNTRY, not just the top 5. Not every business major will land a highpaying job on Wall Street, but they will probably still work if they didn't attend Wharton School of Business. Not every English lit major will write the "great American novel". And not every BFA theatre or MT major will land in Hollywood or Broadway. But for those who want to work, there is work in regional theater, schools, coaching etc., all over the country.</p>

<p>As far as the football players go: do they all hope they will be drafted by the NFL? Probably. Will they all be drafted? No! Does that mean that if they weren't recruited for the top rated football schools on a football scholarship they were wasting their time going to the lesser school which recruited them? Well, I suppose if their only goal in life was to play pro football, they might have been. But if their goal was to get an education while playing a game they loved, they're ahead of the game.</p>

<p>Getting a degree in ANYTHING is a crapshoot. No degree will guarantee anyone a job, an audition, a career, stardom. Attitude, ambition and a good education will all help, however, once you have that degree. And a good education can be obtained at many universities. It's usually as much about what you put into it as what you take out of it.</p>

<p>If your focus (or your child's) is so narrow that only Broadway or Hollywood will suffice, you (or they) might be in for some disappointments on this well-traveled road.</p>

52

<p>NotMamaRose & BiGsmama,</p>

<p>Thank you for your voices of reason! Gotta love the mamas!!</p>

<p>Now on with the converstation and let's agree to be respectful and constructive.</p>

<p>SUE</p>

53

<p>I also love these "voices of reason." After all, the reason I've read and participated on this forum is that it is about COLLEGE after all. If it were just about my daughter's route to stardom, that would be a little too superficial for our family. She wants an education, and we want her to have the best possible education for all the value it will add to her life in every aspect of that life. Just thought I'd pop in here before I leave for a long drive home through the hottest weather of the decade in the hottest region of the country, taking the longest path home to avoid the biggest wildfire in the region. I knew I could get my mind off all that for a few minutes on CC ;).</p>

54

<p>Notmama;</p>

<p>The “professional” is a regional theatre actor who has worked in New York and has an MFA (from SMU). He has also taught at both the college and performing arts high school levels. And yes ... The advice was intended for straight actors.</p>

<p>BIGIsmama,</p>

<p>I don’t believe anyone was implying that there is a “best” school or a “magic formula”. The question is; for those who are intent on persuing a very competitive vocation such as acting, are there methods of training (such as the school you attend) that increase your odds of “making it”. </p>

<p>Your statement of business, engineering and technology degrees from universities (not just the top 5) “all over the country” that allow people to find jobs is not a good analogy for this topic IMO. First, there are a gazillion of those jobs many of which take little talent or ability. Second, you make it sound like a person is just as likely to be a successful actor if they graduated from the Butte Montana Community College versus Julliard. I agree with your views on effort and attitude but the school does matter.</p>

<p>
[quote]
if their only goal in life was to play pro football…….

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I explained to a friend that I sat my German Shepard puppy down last night and had a long talk with him. With the competitiveness these days of getting into the top obedience schools and the difficulty finding work and what not, I explained that he really should have a “back up” in case the “dog thing” didn’t work out for him. A friend suggested that maybe being a Mule would be a good fallback for him.</p>

<p>Talking with my daughter about a “back up” to acting would be as ludicrous as talking with my dog about possibly needing to be a mule. It’s not her “only goal in life”, it’s who she is, its what she does, it is what she was born to do.</p>

55

<p>My D is champing at the bit to be a mule in the fall. And she will also be trained as an actor. (Muhlenberg= mules)</p>

<p>Wally- are you a mule-a-phobe?</p>

<p>Sorry, your analogy struck me as funny, especially since she was prancing around the house last night in her mules boxers.</p>

<p>Safe travels, mtmommy. Hopefullly next week it will cool down here a bit.</p>

<p>And, no, I have nothing of substance to add, just a little (very little) levity.</p>

56

<p>You seems to have some desire to engage everyone who posts (with an opinion different than yours) into some kind of argument. After reading your response to what I posted, I wonder if you actually read or thought about what I was saying before you typed out your comments.....</p>

57

<p>Mule-a-phobe! Bravo! :)</p>

<hr>

<p>
[quote]
You seems to have some desire to engage everyone who posts (with an opinion different than yours) into some kind of argument.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Did you not notice that I stayed out of the heated discourse that took place in this thread?</p>

<p>Is it the warm weather cause some people around here seem to be pretty thin skinned lately. This a forum of ideas and opinions, nothing more. Some ideas you will agree with other opinions you won’t. My advice is to treat it like eating chicken. Take (what for you is) the meat and throw out the bones! </p>

<p>Yes, I read your post twice. When you put up an opinion in a public forum it is by nature inviting reply. Its not “flaming” you nor is it argumentative to disagree so don’t construe it as such. How else would you want it? That only people in agreement with you can reply? Nobody can reply? That doesn’t help you or anyone else. </p>

<p>
[quote]
Getting a degree in ANYTHING is a crapshoot….ALL OVER THE COUNTRY

[/quote]

So, when you make provocative broad brush proclamations don’t be surprised if it spurs others to reply.</p>

58

<p>My take since Wally came on board - I've thought he was the kind of guy who liked a spirited discussion, and wasn't afraid to be provocative - possibly a hint of the devil's advocate at times?? I seem to recall that he is a sports agent by profession? I'm thinking for a guy who gets paid to be contentious, he's been reasonably mild on here :) And - as above, with the mule-o-phobe Bravo - appreciates a sense of humor in others.</p>

<p>There is one person on CC whose posts I skip on a regular basis. I don't care for her tone, I feel that her posts often have an agenda, and there are times when she has posted things that I believe to be factually incorrect. Because it is not my style, I do not engage myself with her -- I just skip her posts, and my life continues on quite happily.</p>

<p>Goodness knows, there is enough information on these pages, that if you have a problem with a poster or two, you can skip their writings, and still get all the information (and possibly more) than you could ever need or use.</p>

59

<p>from post #57:</p>

<p>"Getting a degree in ANYTHING is a crapshoot….ALL OVER THE COUNTRY" </p>

<p>Please read post #51 if you're interested in the actual statement. Words taken out of context often do not convey the original poster's intention.</p>

<p>This board has generally been a healthy environment to exchange information and express differing opinions in the spirit they are offered. Enough said, as far as I'm concerned.....</p>

60

<p>Damn this board is getting friggin' ridiculous man! How do you people have time to write these long posts in response to eachother? If you spent as much time on your/your childrens careers, you or your kids would be on Broadway by now! Yes healthy discussion is great but this got a little out of hand. I think it should stop here. You're honestly flooding the boards with non-sense and petty differences. Just take it to the street and slug it out already. I'll even tape it, and CoachC can sell pop corn. "The battle of the BFAs: Top program or scam?"</p>

<p>I think there are more worth while discussions.. like why did Susan Lucci have to wait so long for her dam emmy? Or why didnt Drowsy Chaperone win best new musical? right?</p>