<p>OK, have a huge dilemma. D is a junior at a highly regarded IB magnet program. She has started telling us how much she is hating it. I mean, really hating it. It seems she has not slept since just before Thanksgiving, and it is getting more intense. She is talking about leaving the program and going to her home school, which is pretty average. She is Incredibly Bright, but not really driven by the work. Has always received good grades and has a 3.8 uw gpa because she likes to do everything well. I don't know what to tell her. On one hand, it seems like she is capable of doing the work. On the other hand, she does not thrive on the stress of juggling so many big projects for the IB diploma. She still does them well, because she is not a slacker, but I also don't want her to be miserable. She could take AP classes at the other school, and practically breeze through with room to breathe, but I am afraid of the message it will send her about quitting when things get rough. But, her arguments make sense. She says she can stay and get continue good grades, but at what cost. She is not enjoying it. Some of her friends seem to thrive on the pressure and it energizes them. She is not. She says what she is going through is "not healthy". I am waiting for a call back to set up a meeting with the GC to see what the school has to say. I would just love to have some input from other parents who see high achievement as being very important, but may have good perspective on whether it is worth the price she is paying.</p>
<p>Your kid has a right to thrive. Trust her instincts that the IB is not a good match for her, and help her enroll at her home school. Find out if it is possible to do so right now instead of waiting until the end of the year. </p>
<p>A big part of learning to deal with difficult situations, is learning to accept when things are indeed wrong for you and getting out is the right thing to do.</p>
<p>I have an IB junior as well and my answer to you would be no, it's not worth it. IB tends to suit specific personality types. My kid isn't the most motivated either, but she loves, loves, loves big, ongoing projects so IB suits her in that regard and is why we made the choice. Does the other school have AP classes available to her? If so, those may be better suited to her personality. Here's the bottom line to me: life is too short to be miserable in pursuit of just about anything, particularly when you're a kid and don't have perspective. My question to you is this: are you willing to let the last years of your precious girl's childhood be remembered for its unhappiness? Your daughter is asking you for help. Please give it to her with a big, giant, squeezy hug.</p>
<p>It's very tough. Is the whole school IB? If not, can she stay there and switch to an AP track? Can she stay in IB but not go for the IB diploma? (If so, she could possibly drop EE.) My son is in his senior year at an IB magnet, and I must say that junior year was by far the hardest. Once the EE is finished, things get better. Could she lighten up her schedule for senior year? My son isn't taking any math this year, because he took the SL exam last year after calculus. Could she drop math or foreign language in the senior year? That might be better than dropping out of the program.</p>
<p>I have a daughter who does extremely well in school although, like your daughter, she is not a Type A kind of person.</p>
<p>Thus we have not required her to take the highest pressure, accelerated courses offered at her school (although I'm sure she would qualify) because she is getting a good education without them and she does not want to take them.</p>
<p>I say you should let her transfer to her home school. It speaks well for her that she is looking for a good fit for herself, and not forcing herself to stay in a situation that makes her miserable just for the prestige.</p>
<p>I am sure she will do well with her college options in either case, so why put her through another year of sleepless nights?</p>
<p>WhirledPeas2u, I feel your pain!</p>
<p>I have a Junior daughter in the IB program and she has struggled on many fronts. We moved to this city for my husbands job and felt blessed that IB was available as my daughter was not at all challenged by her previous high school classes. Many of her struggles are due to moving her junior year to a much larger high school in a totally different city than she grew up in. </p>
<p>We watched her try to manage communications (via web and texting) with friends in our previous town and the new amount of homework, which seemed overwhelming. By mostly parental management, she has found a balance but remains pretty miserable about the move. We finaly gave her a choice to return to her old school next year (meaning family will live split up for a year) or remaining and she has said she has to think about it. She admitted that the IB was challenging but she was learning SO MUCH MORE than her old school and that would be so beneficial for college. She said perhaps the move to an easy senior year would not be so good.</p>
<p>Essentially we have determined that it may not be worth the price for her to remain here. And she has realistically thought it through and has seen the light at the end of the tunnel. She is trying to think long-term rather than here and now. I would say don't make decisions in the midst of the misery. Perhaps take Spring Break as a time for discussion and a thoughtful, unemotional decision. Focus on long-term goals and perhaps the short-term answers will come easier.</p>
<p>Good luck!</p>
<p>I think you have to listen to your D and her reasoning. If it were me, only then when I understand my child's perspective would I schedule a meeting with the GC or one of the teachers to get their perspective. I think I would do this without having my child present so the teacher/GC would feel more comfortable talking. There is always the possibility that there is something "else" going on that your daughter is not saying or they may have perspective on your daughter that you, as a parent, cannot see. If all seems transparent, then I would probably move my child if that were the wish. I believe that the teen years encompass growth and inner maturity and decsion making that go far beyond academic learning. Learning their own tolerances, choosing their path and making choices are part of that maturation. I feel sorry for the kids that go through life constantly doing what others tell them and suddenly at age 25 or 26 have no idea who they are or where their "place" in life is because they have not learned about their inner self. We can protect, encourage, discourage, argue, etc., but in the end we have to "listen closely" to what our kids are telling us about themselves as they get close to adulthood.</p>
<p>I know very little about IB so I might be asking dumb questions, but I have a friend in Cali whose ds seems to pick and choose IB classes. In IB parlance, I guess that means he won't graduate with an IB diploma? Anyway, is there a way to have some of the rigor of the IB program without going all-out and letting her make herself miserable? This would enable her to stay in her current setting, which I'm assuming she'd like to do, i.e. be with friends and such. Of course, maybe she'd feel like a failure not being able to "hang" with her uber-driven friends at the old school, and the transfer is a way to separate herself from the whole situation.</p>
<p>What I don't know is how this looks for college admissions. Will not getting the full IB diploma be seen quite negatively? If so, would the transfer to the other school, where IB is not an option, be viewed more positively? Would her rank go up at the new school? Sounds like it, so there's a silver lining.</p>
<p>One thing cc has taught me is to be kinder to my kid. I read threads by kids on here who are so OVERwound about these kinds of things, and I wish they didn't put so much pressure on themselves. Makes me want to be the soft place to land for my own kids and to not stress out so much about the B in BC Cal. I can understand the desire to not let your dd be a "quitter," but maybe you'd really just be allowing her to stop the madness?</p>
<p>Good luck and hugs to you. This is a toughie.</p>
<p>Let her leave. IB is a great program for the relatively rare student who has a deep interest across all disciplines. </p>
<p>For students who are intellectual, but have deep interests in only some academic areas, IB can be like a prison that prevents them from diving into the ECs and academic subjects that they are passionate about.</p>
<p>Depending on how IB is run, it can also be boring and tedious. It is, for instance, possible to run an IB program in a way that has lots of work that is boring and time wasteful for the brightest kids, but is necessary to allow other students the ability to pass the IB tests. Examples of this can be students being forced to outline chapters or to define words, things that aren't necessary for some students to do.</p>
<p>I allowed both of my sons to select what high school program to take. Both chose the IB magnet magnet program. Older S grit his teeth and went through it, getting the IB diploma. Every day, he complained about the program. H and I told him he could switch to our zoned high school, and excellent place, but he said he started IB and would finish IB. He did, then dropped out of college after freshman year. Our IB program, (which I later learned was basically run in a teach to the test way) had turned him completely off education.</p>
<p>Younger S made the decision to leave IB after junior year. I was amazed at how much more interesting the AP classes were at our zoned high school, how enthusiastic the teachers and students were.</p>
<p>Interestingly, both sons are very bright people who in high school underachieved academically. That continued senior year for younger S, who almost didn't graduate from h.s. although he loved his classes and appreciated the teaching he was getting. He just wouldn't work hard. Although he said he wanted to go to college, he never got around to applying, and I didn't push him or structure him (what I had done with my older S).</p>
<p>Younger S did a gap year living at home and working as an Americorps volunteer, then went to the college of his choice, a second tier LAC where he has flourished -- high grades, very involved in productive ECs, wonderful friends.</p>
<p>I hope you'll let your D follow her heart.</p>
<p>Also, IB does not automatically open colleges' doors. I've been an alum interviewer for Harvard. I know that such universities regard IB and AP intensive curricula equally. In fact, from my area, I now see more AP intensive students getting admitted to Harvard possibly because the IB students are more likely to be high achieving students who select courses and ECs to make themselves fit into what they think colleges are looking for while meanwhile top colleges want high achieving students who have passionately pursued their own interests.</p>
<p>Whirledpeas,
S2 is also in a magnet IB. One thing we found is that there is more than one way to skin the IB cat (with apologies to CC feline friends). They don't HAVE to take IB HL math. They don't HAVE to take an HL science. The math and FL tracks in particular offer various speeds. S2 was having a terrible time with pre-IB Alg II w/Analysis freshman year -- he was not well-served by his Algebra I teacher and had to learn a lot of material that should have been covered previously. We got him through it with a lot of help at home, but he then took the slightly slower route (with our blessing and a sigh of relief) and went on the math studies track. He is taking AB Calc now, but it is far less crazed, and having to spend less time consumed with math helped him spend more time on his other classes -- which improved his grades. Ironically, he is now going to take Math SL as a senior instead of Math Studies as a junior.</p>
<p>May be worth it to talk to the GC about alternative paths D can take to make the next year and a half easier should she choose to stay in IB. Our school automatically gives the "most challenging curriculum" to any full diploma student, so one can really load up or not. Is she having a hard time juggling IB with ECs? Would they let her do certificates instead of the full diploma? When do students at her school do the EE? Over the summer? During the year?</p>
<p>Whether or not it hurts your D in admissions depends on what schools she's considering, and frankly, if you or she care that it might make a difference. (If she's looking at Bright Futures, it may make no difference at all -- but your GC could probably speak to that.) We've had this conversation with S2 a couple of times, too.</p>
<p>Let her leave. Let her enjoy her last year in high school (as long as she promises to take a couple of AP classes).</p>
<p>Adding to NSM's post: My older son never even considered IB. APs and specialized courses beyond that were the way he needed to go. </p>
<p>I do wish the IB ran on an eight period day so S could take more electives in other areas that interest him. He does not get a lot of busywork -- it's just very intense and the grading standards are VERY tough.</p>
<p>Don't assume that AP classes are easier. Frankly, I think the AP classes at our zoned school are harder than are the IB classes. Where I live, IB attracts lots of kids who erroneously think that's the only way to get state merit aid, which isn't true at all. IB is just one way of getting that aid, which one also can get through grades and test scores as do most of the college-bound kids who are taking AP intensive courseloads.</p>
<p>In my area, the AP intensive program actually attracts more kids who care about academics, and aren't pushed into taking tough courseloads because of their parents wanting them to get state merit aid. Because our local IB program justifiably fears being closed due to lack of enough students, it also allows low achieving students to remain in the program even if they are flunking and are not interested in being there at all. Their lack of interest --and the teachers desperate efforts to engage them and help them learn enough to pass the IB tests -- turns off the self motivated students who are brighter.</p>
<p>While my S's laziness and procrastination didn't allow him to get good grades in the AP program, he loved being around other students who loved to learn and were interested in the courses. He also loved having discussions in class that were designed to help students think deeply, and he loved the enthusiasm of the teachers, who weren't having to deal with the stress of the overall administration of a weak school that was being propped up by a magnet IB program.</p>
<p>I also was glad to see teachers reacting to him as being a bright student who was underperforming instead of treating him like the IB teachers and administrators did: Because he was on track to get the IB diploma, they ignored the fact that he had SATs in the 99th percentile, but sub 3.0 unweighted grades. They offered no help when H and I tried to talk to them to find out what we and they could do to encourage S to achieve up to his potential.</p>
<p>She doesn't have to fill her schedule with all AP's. Maybe 2 AP's scattered in the mix will still allow her to have a good balance between studies and fun. Good luck. I hope she gets the opportunity to enjoy her senior year.</p>
<p>My D also dropped out of the full (Diploma) IB program after her junior year. She dropped the 2nd semester of TOK (at our school it is taken 2nd semester Junior year and 1st semester Senior year) and didn't have to take IB Psych. She did take the IB test for math SL (calculus AB) and Spanish SL in her junior year.</p>
<p>She has had a much more relaxed and happier senior year. She is still taking IB English, IB History, AP Stats, IB Spanish, and rather than an IB science, she is taking a marine biology class. The reason she is in the IB Spanish class (6th year Spanish) is so she can remain in the IB program, and she is taking it Pass/Fail.</p>
<p>Listen to your daughter. I wish I had listened to mine before Spring of her Junior year.</p>
<p>Can she cut back on her IB classes and become an IB Certificate candidate (rather than a Diploma candidate) and remain at her school? The school may be more understanding letting a senior remain at the school as an IB Certificate candidate.</p>
<p>Each school doing the IB program has the flexibility to do things differently. In my kid's school; of the 4 years of IB; 2 of the years they had 3 electives each semester. 2 years they had 2 electives each semester. Also; my son was on the football team, soccer team, orchestra, class officer. My daughter was in choir, theater, dance, soccer. So to say that the IB program doesn't allow for electives and EC is straight up wrong. Maybe at your kid's school it isn't done well enough, but that's not the IB program. That's a school problem.</p>
<p>As for the OP daughter. If the school only had 11th-12th grade IB (Didn't have Pre-IB in 9th-10th); then I would encourage her to go back to normal type classes for her senior year. Possibly take some AP or honors classes. If however she's been in the IB program since the 9th grade, then I would be asking her how she could be doing this for 3 years and only NOW finding out that it isn't for her. And I'm sure it was just a figure of speech about her not sleeping since Thanksgiving. We don't want to admit a lot about our children, but teenagers are very melodramatic. Try to separate her emotions with facts. Make sure she understands the importance of finishing what you start. That quitting is habit forming. Again; if this is her 1st year with IB, then maybe it's not for her. That's not uncommon. But if this is her 3rd year, then I'd be wondering why. Maybe it's just a teenage thing.</p>
<p>"Again; if this is her 1st year with IB, then maybe it's not for her. That's not uncommon. But if this is her 3rd year, then I'd be wondering why. "</p>
<p>The teen years are a time for self discovery as well as discovering what the world offers. It can take several years for some teens to realize that they don't really enjoy a program or activity. They also may not have been aware that there's a way of living life that they'd enjoy more. </p>
<p>This also is why so many students change their majors, interests and goals while they're in college. Life has more to offer than they had realized before.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Try to separate her emotions with facts. Make sure she understands the importance of finishing what you start. That quitting is habit forming.
[/quote]
I couldn't disagree with this more. Emotions are very, very important. Happiness is an emotion and we all aspire to that. Quitting is only habit-forming in certain circumstances and there is great value in learning when to make a change in your life.</p>
<p>Not quitting is habit-forming, too. And can cause just as much damage.</p>
<p>We're talking about a 16-17 year old. We're not talking about a 20 year old. That's why the 16 year old has PARENTS. If some parents don't want to be parents and instead want to be BFF; then that's fine. But as a parent, part of our job is to put things into perspective. To realize that to a teenager, everything is so dramatic. And education and school is a tool to assist you grow and aspire to other things. What would you say if this student was in a traditional class/school and felt the same way. That she is in "self-discovery". That she should drop out of her classes. Maybe go to special-ed or drop out of school? Like I said; it depends on if this is her 1st year of IB or 3rd year of IB. I wouldn't tell her she couldn't drop out of IB and go back to traditional classes. But I would insist that she loaded her schedule with every AP class that she has an interest in; and honors for the others.</p>
<p>Anyway; do whatever you want. They're your kids. I was simply stating that the IB program isn't the same all over the country. That blanket statements about the IB program such as it doesn't leave time for EC, Sports, Electives, etc... is not necessarily correct. There's no difference between comparing that with traditional schools around the country. Some are better than others at teaching the exact same courses.</p>