<p>I'm not disagreeing with much of what you say, afadad, but it's not true that every kid is so dramatic. My son is very level-headed, and if he came to me seriously distressed about his workload, I'd listen to what he had to say, not just dismiss it as hormonal histrionics. As I said, it's a tough call. I just don't believe in not quitting for not-quitting's sake. :)</p>
<p>I do think it's important to talk a lot and get the facts. Is it really just one class or teacher that is making her miserable? Is it the workload? Does she want to go back to the home school because she misses her friends there? Let her vent as much as possible--that alone may help a lot.</p>
<p>How about brilliant people who can get through medical school, but have no business being Doctors? Just because you are capable doesn't mean you should do it. A partial IB (certificate) program or switching to AP classes isn't the end of the world.</p>
<p>Hopefully, the OP's D isn't looking at an 'all or nothing' option.</p>
<p>Chances are, if she isn't happy, or if she is stressed out senior year, her grades will suffer. And let's not forget senioritis in the spring. It's there and it's real.</p>
<p>My D tells me that most of her friends in the full (Diploma) IB Program don't want anything to do with any Honors College options at the colleges/universities that they are applying. They are so tried and burned out that they just want a regular college experience.</p>
<p>OP, you may want to look at what college credit the colleges that you D is interested in will give for AP scores v IB scores. It might help.</p>
<p>Afadad, I'm so glad you aren't my parent. How utterly lacking in compassion and affection you appear to be. Heavens. It must be wonderful to be so perfect that you never make a choice that you later need to change. </p>
<p>
[quote]
Maybe go to special-ed or drop out of school?
[/quote]
This is just vicious.</p>
<p>Oh please. There wasn't one "Vicious" thing said. If you want to read into it more than what is there; go for it. I don't care. I simply asked a question. What if the daughter had the EXACT same complaints, concerns, etc... about her classes and she wasn't in the IB program? What if she was in a traditional class/school curriculum? What would you then do? What would be your choices? You can't go to an "Easier" curriculum. See, neither you nor I know the WHOLE story. And this parent WILL NOT or CAN NOT tell us the entire story. So you are willing to make judgment on something you don't know. I'm willing to continue to ask questions. Not for the OP to give me the answers; but rather for them to give themselves the answer and possibly see their options and alternatives and make an educated decision.</p>
<p>It's already been eluded to by others. Maybe there's more to this young lady's issues than just the IB program. As for me not having compassion or affection; you don't have any idea what you're talking about. So please, learn 1st, speak 2nd. I love it when people suggest "counseling" when their kids have issues. (Not that is was suggested here). But the MAIN reason for a counselor is because the Parent doesn't know how to separate themselves from the emotional side of a situation. They are too close. Therefor, they need an outsider. Well, sorry to tell you, but I am capable of removing myself emotionally from a situation and looking at it objectively. I then know how to go back to being a parent. Both compassionately and affectionately. Just because you aren't capable of doing such doesn't mean you have to try and degrade those who can. We are parents talking to each other. I'm not talking to a 16 year old. If you don't know how to talk differently to adults and children, then that too is something you probably need to learn.</p>
<p>Thank you all for your support and suggestions. I am still waiting for a call back from the GC. It would be great if she could just move her schedule around, but it is a "pure" magnet school. They have MSE, CS, IB and IDP (I am not sure what IDP is about). I would like to see if she could possibly even switch to the MSE program, as she REALLY loves math. I am aware of the consequences of becoming a "quitter", but I believe if we frame it as making a necessary change, and not quitting. She is one of the hardest workers I know, so I don't think this is just a matter of not feeling like doing all of the IB requirements, she just does not see the point. I also agree with NSM, there could be a risk of burnout before college. She already has stated that she does not want to go to a "hard" college. I think that is a very telling sign. If she switches schools, her ranking will certainly go way up, but that is not really a motivation. Thanks for the support. I will keep you posted on what we decide after speaking with GC.</p>
<p>WhirledPeas2You -- Your daughter's 3.8 unweighted gpa speaks volumes about her work habits and intelligence. She's not considering leaving the IB program because she can't cope with the work. The fact that a rising senior would be willing to transfer to another school for senior year is a pretty significant choice. If the current school won't let her take certificates instead of the full diploma, I'd encourage her to follow her own conclusions about the best choice for her for next year.</p>
<p>Our school has both IB and AP, and a huge number of kids drop the full diploma idea after junior year. For some, it is a matter of not doing well (or well enough) in an area required on the IB exam; for others it is a time issue because IB crowds-out too much else. Our school let's students pursue certificates, though from what I've seen, many colleges don't do a good job at giving credits for IB certificates; at least not nearly as well as they do for AP. (The diploma can be a different story.)</p>
<p>I don't see this decision as "sticking to a plan" or not. If she's using information to fine tune her bigger picture course in life, better to figure out now that she's off course than later.</p>
<p>Whirled; best of luck to you. The fact that your daughter mentioned not wanting to go to a hard college is definitely a sign. See if you can get her to let you know what she WANTS to do after high school. possibly as a career later on. Then maybe you can get her to tell you what she thinks would be a good plan for achieving those goals. I've had the good fortune to help a lot of high school students plan for the future. I've seen a lot where one GC or parent told them what the PLAN was. Especially when it came to classes and colleges. The important thing to determine is what the student wants. If they don't know what they want, then get them to tell you what the advantages and disadvantages are to the different educational options they have, and what options it gives them later when they do make a choice. If you can get your daughter to see which curriculum and method will assist her in achieving what it is she wants, she will buy into it and be much more excited about it. This is common whether they want to be a plumber, lawyer, engineer, secretary, or manager of a Mini-mart. Don't forget to have her tell you the advantages and disadvantage to the different options. Best of luck to you and your daughter.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Maybe go to special-ed or drop out of school?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>This wasn't so much vicious as just plain ignorant. What an idiotic thing to say.</p>
<p>afadad, my son is a special ed student. The IB school in our area tried to recruit him; it's a pretty bad program here and he was not at all interested, especially since he got into a competitive-entry science and technology program, one with a 17% admittance rate. His December SAT score was two math questions short of perfect; not bad for a HS sophomore, methinks. He's a member of SET (The</a> Study of Exceptional Talent (SET)), does not have to work at schoolwork at all to get on the honor roll, and learned to read before he was two. (I learned he could read when he was 22 months old; I have no idea how long he'd been able to do so before that.) His curriculum is the most challenging offered in our district, and he doesn't find it at all challenging, though other gifted students apparently do. (That's why he's applied to go to college next year, in fact.)</p>
<p>Special ed does NOT mean stupid.</p>
<p>Do I need to repeat that for you? Probably, so here it is, and yes, there is a test later (for all the rest of your life, in fact):</p>
<p>Special ed does NOT mean *stupid*.</p>
<p>I trust you will not make that mistake again.</p>
<p>
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I was simply stating that the IB program isn't the same all over the country. That blanket statements about the IB program such as it doesn't leave time for EC, Sports, Electives, etc... is not necessarily correct
[/Quote]
</p>
<p>Keep in mind kids are different too!! My older daughter breezed through the IB program, led an active social life, was president of 3 clubs, graduated with a perfect 4.0uw GPA and was one of the top scorers on the IB exams. My wife was against my younger daughter entering the same program due to concern about how she handles stress. She put in many more hours than her sister (with the same teachers and classes!!) and will probably graduate with a 3.8uw or so. If at any point, either one wanted to transfer to the local high school, we would have been fine with it.</p>
<p>
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Thank you all for your support and suggestions. I am still waiting for a call back from the GC.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>While all GC are not the same, I would not expect miracles from a visit with the GC. It's obvious that your daughter's problems have been missed by the... guidance people. I would highly recommend to discuss this at length with your daughter and tell her that you want to help and support to the fullest. However, to be able to ascertain the REAL issues, you will need to review her work and discuss the problem areas with EACH one of her teachers. Again, do not let you be lulled in a simplistic meeting with the GC. It is up to YOU to take control of the process and make sure YOU evaluate all the scenarios available to your daughter. </p>
<p>As others have said, it is a known fact that there is no such thing as an universal IB program. Because it has been introduced in the US in the most nilly-willy manner, it has resulted in a very variable program ... great in some places, and often horrible in others. A telling fact is that the IB is often introduced in failing high schools, which should undermine the notion that the IB always requires a huge commitment of time, and especially one that dwarfs all other programs. That is why it is important to check the workload and the difficulty of the program for yourself. From an outsider point of view, there is nothing that would preclude any IB student to be able to manage the "normal" course offering. </p>
<p>As far as the importance of obtaining the full IB diploma for college admissions, it might be worth to ascertain the timing of the applications, acceptances, and release of the final IB exams. Does the IB have ANY impact on early admissions, be it it ED, EA, or SCEA?</p>
<p>Owl; I don't know you nor your kid. Therefor, it doesn't mean anything to me if your child is in special ed or not. If you don't understand the context of the statement and the question being posed to the OP, then you are feeling the words instead of reading the words. Nothing I can do to educate you on that. As far as "Making that mistake again". I don't consider what I said a mistake. So in your eyes, I will probably make a lot more MISTAKES.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Owl; I don't know you nor your kid. Therefor, it doesn't mean anything to me if your child is in special ed or not. If you don't understand the context of the statement and the question being posed to the OP, then you are feeling the words instead of reading the words. Nothing I can do to educate you on that. As far as "Making that mistake again". I don't consider what I said a mistake. So in your eyes, I will probably make a lot more MISTAKES.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Generally, when one inadvertently insults someone, an apology is the proper course of action, nut further deliberate insults.</p>
<p>Considering I explained that statement 3 times, and clarified it's meaning; I don't see why an apology is required. If I said something that wasn't clear, I might agree with you. But not when it was made clear.</p>
<p>afadad, you are equating special ed with something it doesn't equate to -- that is clear. All too clear, in fact.</p>
<p>You apparently don't understand that special ed does NOT mean "can't do challenging work." You used it that way -- putting in on par with not doing any schoolwork at all, even! -- and I'm telling you that using it that way, as if it actually means that, is ignorant.</p>
<p>Maybe your ignorance isn't a mistake; maybe it's willful, deliberate, which accounts for your refusal to acknowledge your error and the insult you have laid on every special ed child, including mine.</p>
<p>If so, then "vicious" was indeed the correct word to apply to your behavior.</p>
<p>I'd second the comment about IB programs being different. Ours is self-selected, but the classes were often a bear. A couple of years ago some of the teachers sat down and reviewed the results -- we hadn't had only 1 student not get scores high enough for the diploma out of all of the students over a four year period. Some of the teachers then decided to back off on some of the workload. Scores are still high, but the workload is apparently less than it was, at least in some of the classes.</p>
<p>owlice, I totally agree with you. My S is in special ed, and is taking IB Math HL this year. In fact, the other two members of the team that appeared on TV on "It's Academic" are also in special ed!</p>
<p>Owl; if you took my explanation as some disrespect for your son or similar student; then I do apologize. It is my responsibility to ensure clarity when I write. Apparently, that didn't happen.</p>
<p>Let her switch. </p>
<p>The fact that a rising senior is willing to change schools voluntarily, with all the social disruption that entails, speaks volumes. </p>
<p>IB is not for everyone, but people often don't find out that they're a poor match for IB until they get there.</p>
<p>My daughter was in an IB diploma program, did well there, and is glad now that she completed the program. But some of her classmates left because the program was ill-suited for them, and others were asked to leave because they were not doing well in IB. My son never even considered IB, and if he had ended up in the program, he would have hated it -- it was too structured for him, allowed too little freedom in course selections, and required a much heavier time commitment than he was willing to make.</p>
<p>You and your daughter need to talk to the guidance departments both at the school she would be leaving and the one where she would be spending her senior year. As far as I'm concerned, there's no reason not to let her switch schools.</p>
<p>I don't think your daughter even needs to justify her decision to you or the GCs. As any IB student or former IB student can tell you, there are a lot of good reasons to hate IB, just as there are a lot of good reasons to like it. IB can be a very valuable experience for some students, but forcing the wrong kids into IB can be like torture.</p>
<p>
[quote]
As for the OP daughter. If the school only had 11th-12th grade IB (Didn't have Pre-IB in 9th-10th); then I would encourage her to go back to normal type classes for her senior year. Possibly take some AP or honors classes. If however she's been in the IB program since the 9th grade, then I would be asking her how she could be doing this for 3 years and only NOW finding out that it isn't for her.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Unlike the person who posted the views I have quoted, I find it very easy to believe that a kid could be in an IB school for 3 years and only now find out that it doesn't suit her.</p>
<p>The IB Diploma program is a 2-year program for 11th and 12th graders. When schools have "four-year IB," what they're really doing is putting their 9th and 10th graders into special pre-IB classes that are designed to prepare them for the real IB classes in 11th and 12th grades. This is probably a good idea; what IB expects from students in terms of preparation isn't necessarily what the standard American 9th and 10th grade honors curriculum provides. Also, having the kids in the program for 4 years makes it easier for the school to figure out a system that will allow them to fulfill both the IB Diploma requirements and the state graduation requirements -- not always an easy thing.</p>
<p>But the two "pre-IB" years may be very different from the real IB years that follow. At my daughter's IB magnet school, there was a substantial increase in the workload and difficulty of the courses when the kids hit real IB in 11th grade. In addition, once they were real IB Diploma program students, they suddenly had to cope with a lot of bureaucracy and extra requirements (CAS, IAs, EAs, TOK, the EE, and the rest of the IB alphabet soup) that they didn't have to face before.</p>
<p>Junior and senior years in an IB school may be an entirely different experience from what came before.</p>
<p>
[quote]
As far as the importance of obtaining the full IB diploma for college admissions, it might be worth to ascertain the timing of the applications, acceptances, and release of the final IB exams. Does the IB have ANY impact on early admissions, be it it ED, EA, or SCEA?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Students at my daughter's IB school have been told -- both by their own IB program staff and by college admissions officers -- that college admissions people are impressed with the fact that a student is an IB diploma candidate. I don't know whether there is any difference between early and regular admissions, however. In both instances, a student would have at most two IB exam scores to mention on a college application. IB students are allowed to take only two of their six exams at the end of their junior year, and both of them must be standard level. The scores from exams taken at the end of senior year don't come out until July -- after students have already been accepted to college. There is something called "predicted scores," but these scores seem to be of no importance to American colleges who are considering candidates for admission who come from American IB schools. The kids at my daughter's IB school didn't know (or care) what their predicted scores were, and nobody at the colleges they applied to ever asked for them.</p>