What is the definition of “perceived virtue signaling” as it applies to boarding school admissions, @SatchelSF?
Well, @doschicos, just one example would be admission rates of LGBT individuals. Reliable census data puts the proportion of homosexuals in the country at somewhere around 3%, with transgendered individuals being a vanishingly small percentage. Probably no school that is smaller than 500 students would even have one! As well, of course, the racial composition of these schools is completely skewed, whether looked at as a percentage of the likely secondary school universe of kids or the population as a whole. Blacks are somewhat overrepresented while Hispanics are underreresented, at least when one considers the secondary school universe of kids (there are roughly 2 Hispanic high school age kids for every black kid, while those proportions are roughly reversed at many of the boarding schools), Jews and Asians are overrepresented against a backdrop of overall population, though almost certainly not against some measure of merit-based “achievement”, while Christian boys and girls are underrepresented on either measure, etc. I don’t want to be contentious; these schools can choose their populations as they wish. I do believe, though, that their preferences - at least at some of the most “elite” places - reflect a fairly orthodox liberal view, one that is very dominant today in a large portion of American society. Moreover, I believe that these schools wouldn’t even disagree with this characterization.
Your description and perceptions (not fact) definitely doesn’t reflect my own observations at those schools I am most familiar with. Odd.
Additionally, I would not rely on polls to adequately reflect the true number of LGBTQ people as a percentage of the population, for reasons beyond the scope of this thread. The US Census, to correct your info, does not ask about sexual preferences nor does it plan to. Your 3% figure is much too low.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-wont-the-census-ask-about-sexual-orientation/
1975 was not the same as 1965 or earlier, that much is certain. When coeducation began in earnest these schools also began seeking out more academically inclined students from more diverse backgrounds. Certainly 1985 was not the same as 1975 at the elite schools, but the changes had been initiated by 1975 at least.
So, what has changed from 50 years ago is that the best and richest schools attract as well as seek a cohort of bright and driven high-achievers, many of whom do not come from the traditional applicant pool–an applicant pool that is very much present and accounted for at ever single school when admissions are handed out, as much as some might like to pretend that isn’t the case. And some of those kids in the traditional applicant pool are pretty smart. Certainly many are well-prepared. Some work hard and fit right in with the strivers. But traditional, elite high schools remain very traditional and elite, even as they chafe against some facets of elitism.
Well, @doschicos, we too can agree to disagree. The CPS (part of the census) has for a long time asked questions about “same sex couples,” and I was under the impression that most of the researchers who have looked into this question have found those data to be a reliable indicator of population wide preference. Gallup and other organizations have also looked into the question, and Gallup for instance has recently noted an increase from 3.5% to 4.1% in its latest data, although they include transgendered (varously estimated as less than 1% by researchers) . http://news.gallup.com/poll/201731/lgbt-identification-rises.aspx We could of course argue or question whether 3% is too low - maybe it’s as high as 5%.
Look at methodologies of any survey or poll you are considering.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/allison-hope/gallup-poll-34-percent-lgbt_b_1981238.html
Well, we could argue indefinitely about what the percentages of LGBTQ people are, and we’ll never get a definitive answer, so let’s put it aside. My perception is that that group is overrepresented at “elite” schools (both BS and colleges), although I readily admit that I could be wrong.
It is a little more difficult to argue with race composition, as the data are more available and observable. For people interested, you can find general K-12 data for the United States (US Dept of Education data - NCES) here: https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cge.asp
NCES also has a useful tool for school specific data here: https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/pss/privateschoolsearch/ Unfortunately, not all boarding schools responded with data but most of the ones mentioned on this forum will be on there.
It is much more difficult to find reliable data about religious affiliation of boarding school students. If anyone has a good source, please post a link!
“My perception is that that group is overrepresented at “elite” schools (both BS and colleges), although I readily admit that I could be wrong.”
Most students enter boarding school at 14/15. Most of those, even if questioning their sexuality at that age, aren’t necessarily identifying yet at the time of application. Plus, absent an essay, where does one indicate one’s sexual preferences on a boarding school application? I think you are reaching. I do not feel my kids’ school was overrepresented vs the overall population but I wasn’t starting at an assumption of 3%, which is too low a number.
Religious affiliation isn’t asked either. I’m not seeing many hindus, buddhists, or muslims though at all so…
Since many boarding schools are known to be welcoming and accepting of differences, it would not surprise me however that those seeking such an atmosphere would be self-selecting, as opposed to driven by admissions policies.
As far as race, most schools don’t parse out racial breakdown based solely on domestic students so its hard to really draw conclusions. Additionally, when it comes to Hispanics specifically, there are cultural reasons that make it harder for boarding schools to attract those students.
All this discussion about race, religion, sexuality only matters however if one assumes that the students are not otherwise academically qualified to be there. IMO, they are so it is a moot point. Whites and christians don’t hold a monopoly on academically bright children.
Don’t worry. White christians are definitely well represented!
third page, past three years’ matriculation list
“All this discussion about race… only matters however if one assumes that the students are not otherwise academically qualified to be there.”
If race weren’t a dispositive issue, then schools wouldn’t ask. The fact that they do implies that at least in certain cases it must be a deciding factor (or else, why ask it?). Perhaps we’ll learn more as the Department of Justice’s inquiry into discrimination by Harvard against Asians proceeds.
“Additionally, when it comes to Hispanics specifically, there are cultural reasons that make it harder for boarding schools to attract those students.”
I’ll leave that one alone.
with 3 or more attending said college. It leaves out the many ones and twos, of which there are probably many.
@applejuice007 Thanks for the link. Looks impressive enough to me. 
“If race weren’t a dispositive issue, then schools wouldn’t ask”
Because they do value diversity. That’s different than assuming they take students that aren’t qualified.
“I’ll leave that one alone.”
Than why not just leave out this nebulous and meaningless retort if you want to really leave it alone. My guess is you are looking in a different direction than what I meant.
Unfortunately the matriculation list doesn’t tell the whole story, like Yale’s whopping number is mostly made up of athletic recruits and children of current professors who are day students.
Although this may look impressive enough, lists don’t tell the fully story. You read this and think your student has “equal” chances, when it just isn’t so.
Enough though, don’t feel like you have to argue back. I’ve had my say.
^This. The from-Choate-to-Yale numbers are unrealistic due to the presence of the Foote fac brats, nearly all of whom are also Yale-related. Many of those Foote kids used to go to Hopkins before the Choate arrangement.
"Because they do value diversity. That’s different than assuming they take students that aren’t qualified. "
I’m not assuming they are taking kids who are not “qualified,” whatever that means. What I am saying is that schools are discriminating against kids on the basis of their skin color in a competitive process in which many unsuccessful candidates will have been “qualified” as well. In The Shape of the River, one of the authors, Derek Bok, who probably knows what he is talking about since he was President of Harvard for twenty years, pointed out that of blacks who were accepted at Harvard over his tenure only 14% were from lower socioeconomic circumstances. Now, just what kind of diversity was truly being fostered there? As I wrote, I believe that skin color is being used as a criterion, in what I believe is a soft “quota” system. I’d be very surprised if it were otherwise at “elite” boarding schools. I don’t think that as a society we should we making distinctions based upon skin color. Period.
Being a black person, regardless of SES, is diversity and they do bring a different perspective to campus.
I think hockey players are over-represented. 
But, they are private institutions and they can build a class however they want, even if it means they value hockey wins more than I do.
Well, sure, @doschicos, if you agree with the idea of quotas then you wouldn’t have any problem with such an arrangement. I do agree that private institutions have the right to arrange themselves however they choose. (I also think that private employers should be free to discriminate however they choose, as well, a position I suspect you would not agree with.)
Looking at the Choate profile, i was surprised at how unimpressive their SAT and other objective results are. Of course, test results aren’t everything, but it’s hard to see how a mean score of 2026 (approximately 93rd %) is consistent with an academically elite group. There are open admission (not test-in or magnet) public high schools with higher numbers, for instance Mission San Jose High School in California (https://www.fremont.k12.ca.us/cms/lib/CA01000848/Centricity/Domain/2858/2016-2017_School_Profile.pdf) . There is no doubt that Choate’s impressive college matriculations are the result of many “fingers on the scale.”
@SatchelSF Schools have quotas for everything. They need a certain number of football players. They want band students. They may accept a certain number of student to a particular major. The basketball team need a particular numbers of players. It is never ending. Do you think they should eliminate all of those quotas as well? Or do you acknowledge that a certain number of everything is needed to build the school and programs that they want?
I’m just gonna take for granted that there is no scientific basis for this statement, and that you are just making assumptions.
Having said that, you do realize that we are talking about boarding schools, and not last call at Machine, right? Even for the 14-15 year olds that are comfortable with their sexual identity, they are not running around campus waving a rainbow flag. And on most of these campuses, if you were to play a game of “Gay or Eurotrash,” you’d likely lose. Just my opinion, of course. 