<p>Just could not resist a post at this stage. I don't know what magic secret Garrity has discovered - but I could have used it a few years ago. This is coming from a situation where we ended up with a total $ amount just a little bit below Cur's daughter. All I know is that it as a lot of work, a lot of research and yes also a lot of worry. Fortunately it did work in the end and the offers were amazing. Several Scholars programs and full rides.</p>
<p>On the other hand I would put a lot of credence into what Cur says. I remember him going through the process a year ago and by the end he certainly knew how the game was played. As for the statement "they will make it work for you" maybe - maybe not - but don't bet the farm (ranch) on it. As for the statement "Forget worries regarding money." - I just find that scary and not wise.</p>
<p>Like it or not, SAT/ACT scores are very important for top merit awards. From my experience a 1450 is the absolute minimum for most top schools and competitions, with many looking for 1500. The competition for these awards is amazing - people don't often realize the level and accomplishments of the candidates untill they are well in the process. I remember my kids initial reaction when attending their first scholarship interview weekend "don't expect me to win anything - these other kids are so smart and accomplished that its scary". Fortunately despite that - they did.</p>
<p>Its never too early to begin the groundwork. Learn the rules, set realistic expectations, do the research and everything will work out. Just remember considering finances is just as important if not more important than other variables when deciding on schools. Also, everynes kid is amazing, just be realistic regarding how amazing your kid is compared to the other amazing kids out there.</p>
<p>To Curmudgen: Please don't take offense because my experiences differ from yours. You want to be regarded as "the" expert based simply on your daughters experiences and your computer research. Fine. But others have a lot of valuable experience. Why are you always so afraid of others opinions? I notice that you often travel with one or two curm worshippers- this is an adult forum which is not to be controlled by you and your limited experience. We all have valuable info. to share so stop being so jealous of others as you just harm this website. By the way is your daughter at Univ. of Texas as you claim, or at Rhodes in Memphis as you also claim?! Little credibility issue there. Your silly comments do not do you justice as you do have some info. to share that is worth sharing. But you also have shared info. of a slightly incorrect nature. Why are you always looking for a fight? Did your daughter really turn down Yale for Rhodes? Just due to money? I am very familiar with Yale and they are quite generous and flexible with financial aid. Ask any Yale admission officer or student.</p>
<p>curmudgeon is much more knowledgeable about the whole FA game than I will ever be or could be (spread sheets make break out in hives), but I will second his general observation.</p>
<p>S was accepted at several wonderful schools. Each had its own idea of what we could pay. And, for the most part, when asked about the discrepancies, the schools offering the least aid were able to make up only a small percent of the difference, even when S had qualified for some pretty cool university scholarships that indicated that the schools thought he was someone they wanted to have on campus!</p>
<p>It was DEFINITELY not a case of "they'll make it work," unless making it work included having our family move into a tent. (We have some odd financial issues that, apparently, make it appear to some that we have greater resources than we do--not important here).</p>
<p>Any way, this is a long-winded way of saying; good idea to listen to curmudgeon, everyone.</p>
<p>And my advice to OP remains: hang in there, educate yourself, and give it time, because you have time.</p>
<p>What experience would that be or is it supersecret decoder ring stuff?</p>
<p>I don't discount anyone's truthful experience. Their opinions if they are not firmly grounded, yes. But not their experience. Your opinions are dangerous and foolhardy and will hurt kids. It's best to tell them the financial realities.</p>
<p>Brilliant response! How can I compete with your wit?! Is your daughter at Texas Honors as you claim or at Rhodes(over Yale!!!) as you also claim? I think we all know who is full of bull and has too much time on his hands.Learn to respect others opinions and experiences, just as you want for yourself. Rhodes over Yale due to money is, as you say, a crock!!! And if you really did select Rhodes over Yale due to money, you should not be giving advice to anyone!</p>
<p>
[quote]
By the way is your daughter at Univ. of Texas as you claim, or at Rhodes in Memphis as you also claim?! Little credibility issue there.
[/quote]
The commute between her Spanish class and Bio is pretty tough but a committed student does what they have to do. D just couldn't make up her mind between a huge state school she hates and a small out of state LAC she loves, so she did the next best thing. She enrolled at both. Simultaneously and at the same time.;) It took a sharp mind like your's to catch her. </p>
<p>As to your other issues, say what? Get a grip.</p>
<p>**Garrity, put up or shut up. Find the quote where my kid is enrolled at, or even applied to UT. LOL. I'll quit CC on the spot if you do. Without a good-bye. Naked. If you're wrong, you quit. Deal?</p>
<p>Edit: I'm waiting big shot. Let's see it. I'm calling your hand. I'm all in (and other poker talk).**</p>
<p>Let's bold it so you don't miss your chance.</p>
<p>"How can I compete with your wit?! " I don't think you can either. Something we agree on.</p>
<p>Oh, God. Here we go again. I'm like a friggin' lightning rod for these ...uhhh..folks. garrity, you are hopeless. LOL. Use your search button. It's all there to read.;)</p>
<p>As far as the $ issues between Yale and Rhodes, it's clear that you have no experience with money, Rhodes, or Yale and most certainly not with my finances nor my D's choices.</p>
<p>Well, that's one explanation. Now, let's see the cards. BTW, I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the Moderatorist Party. You is wrong agin. Let's see the cards, big boy.</p>
<p>Sorry, folks. I was invited to post in this thread by the OP in a p.m. . I'm sorry for the intrusion, but as one veteran said to me in a p.m.- Garrity's "advice" is a recipe for disaster. I felt the need to point that out. Obviously, that didn't set too well. ;)</p>
<p>Listen, Mr Just-Joined Garrity: back off dude. We're not curmudgeon 'worshipers'. Good grief. We're long time admirers and cyber friends who have been on this forum for years not months.</p>
<p>We've watched many frequent posters go through the aid process and we're telling YOU that the best success stories appear to be lodged in the Merit Money game. Sure, acceptances to Yale can be had, but some middle class families cannot afford to pass up full rides--espeically if they know their children are likely to go on to medical school. </p>
<p>Yale in particular is a standout--partly becuase of the story of evilrobot. He was accepted to Yale as an EA but couldn't afford it. They didn't make it happen for him. Your information about Yale is not correct. They do not 'make it happen' for all acceptees. He went to Vanderbilt on their dime--and he is thriving by all accounts.</p>
<p>cheers, how did you like the UT stuff Garrity is hocking up? Won't D be surprised? LOL. D a T-sip. ROTF. Go, Horns! (Yuk. It's not even palatable when I'm just teasing. Go Lady Bears.)</p>
<p>Still waiting for the cards. Show 'em , secretman.</p>
<p>Jesus Christ Garrity!!![ my apologies to others!] BACK OFF!! I can't BELIEVE someone would come on to the Parents Forum JUST TO FLAME SOMEONE ELSE! Growup [yeah as if THAT will every happen] and either 1] read the HUNDREDS of posts that Cur has written over the last few years so you understand his daughter's history AND why others on this forum find his posts knowledgable as well as funny, or 2] find another place to spew your venom.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Curm: The simple point is that you want to be "the" expert on everything.
[/quote]
If you'd read you'd find I give all credit to those before me, and if I've forgotten to by all means let me do so now. Carolyn, and TheDad, and Sybbie, and cheers (and ST2, and condor 30 my merit contemporaries, we stomped on the terra didn't we? LOL.) and MOWC, and alumother, and jmmom, and sbmom, and susan, and calmom (ooh, she's real good at FA -need based along with sybbie. Much better than me. I didn't do real well. ;) ).There are several more. (My God, I forgot xig!!:eek:)</p>
<p>I have my area where I think I do know more than most posters just by dint of hard work but that knowledge is fading rapidly. Each year things change. Next year I'll be less relevant. But see, this year I think I still am. I could be wrong. What's your story? Don't be bashful.</p>
<p>Edit: And BTW, in a spirit of fairness, I did call his advice to ignore finances horse$%#$. Maybe not my finest shorthand rendition, but flavorful. ;)</p>
<ol>
<li><p>I'm not curmudgeon's "cyber friend" or anything.</p></li>
<li><p>From what I've seen, he's always told a consistent story. He has specifically said that his daughter refused to apply to UT.</p></li>
<li><p>I love Yale as much as anyone on this forum, but Yale's idea of "making it work" for families that aren't destitute often involves substantial payments and substantial debt. One of my daughter's classmates came very close to turning down Yale because, although she would have to come up with very little cash, she was going to leave college with at least $100,000 of debt (vs. a legitimate debt-free full ride at a less prestigious school). Ultimately, she decided Yale was worth the $100,000, but it sure wasn't a no-brainer for a working-class kid. I've seen other situations like that as well. Yale does not match the competition, unless the competition is Harvard, Princeton, or Stanford.</p></li>
<li><p>Curmudgeon has never claimed that Yale's FA award made it impossible for his daughter to go there. He has said he could have made it work somehow, but with substantial hardship ("selling a kidney").</p></li>
<li><p>Curmudgeon has also said, many times, that if it were his choice his daughter would have gone to Yale. She chose to go to Rhodes for less. I also note that most of the schools to which she applied seem to have been LAC-sized; Yale was on the large end for her, and one of the farthest from home. (Away from home may be a plus, but aaawwwaaaaaayyyyy from home maybe not so much.) Also, she wants to be a doctor, not an investment banker or research scientist; Yale vs. Rhodes adds a lot less value there. In any event, she was in the ballpark for someone who might really prefer a LAC (for free) to Yale. It's never seemed crazy to me, although it's clearly unusual.</p></li>
<li><p>I love Yale as much as anyone on this forum, but I would never be so arrogant as to claim that a kid couldn't love Rhodes just as much.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Garrity, W TF is up with you? People ASK Cur to get involved in threads because of his experiences, particularly in the area of financial aid. And if you're the type of person who really feels the need to s*** on people for picking a free ride at Rhodes (a damn fine school) over Yale (a remarkably expensive damn fine school), then you're in the wrong place. Hell, some people might actually pick a school like Rhodes over a school like Yale because <em>for them</em> it's simply the better choice. </p>
<p>And I can't remember any message - ever - where Curmudgeon indicated his D was at UT? Again, W TF? </p>
<p>Gee excuse my French, but don't worry since it'll be deleted shortly.</p>
<p>To the Op, again I apologize. The choices made by my family are peculiar to us. I would like to reiterate some of what I said in my first post on this thread in even clearer language. It appears some got confused. </p>
<p>I did not pick where my daughter applied. We disagreed (on some). I did not pick where my daughter enrolled . We disagreed ( she convinced me eventually that she knew what she was doing). I did not pick her ec's at college . We disagreed (a lot). I did not pick for her to join a sorority. We disagreed (a lot). </p>
<p>Now, you can bet your bottom dollar I was heard, and I will continue to be heard. But make a life choice for the daughter I love just the same as y'all love yours? The daughter I taught to think for herself? The daughter I think may be the finest human I've ever met? That's not gonna happen. It's my opinion, and it is only that, that you need to inform, and empower the child to make their own decisions and by God, sometimes that means they don't choose what you want for them. Imagine that? As long as it's not dangerous or foolhardy, let them grow in their decision-making.</p>
<p>Sorry for the delay, everyone. One of us would have dealt with this slightly differently had we noticed or been alerted this debacle sooner but, contrary to popular wisdom, the Mod staff is neither omniscient nor omnipresent, though we do our darnedest. </p>
<p>Anyway, I'm leaving Garrity's post intact with a general admonition of "Don't Do Things Like This." The board will have to get along without Garrity's contributions for one week for the violation of the Terms of Service on general principles and a second week for being so hostile, over the top and in gross error in attacking a poster whose contributions and experiences have been so valuable for the College Confidential community.</p>
<p>And finally a reminder that it is against CC policy to comment on moderation. Please don't do it. Just read this and move on, nothing more to see here folks. I'd hate to have to issue tickets to the bystanders or victims.</p>
<p>I have not followed this thread, but reading these last few posts made my head reel.</p>
<p>As a long-time CC poster, I beg to remind everyone of Evil Robot's story. ER was admitted SCEA to Yale, his first choice school. But Yale finaid package would have made it hard for him to attend the school although his family was willing (the "sell a kidney" strategy). In the end, he decided to attend Vanderbilt because of the much more generous financial aid package. </p>
<p>People do turn down HYPSM all the time. Even Harvard which has the highest yield, still has 20% of admitted students turn it down. And since the Revealed Preference study shows that students admitted at Harvard, Yale, and Princeton do tend to matriculate at Harvard, one must conclude that a high proportion of these 20% of admitted students (around 400 per year) turn it down for financial reasons. Put another way, Harvard's financial aid is not generous enough for some families. And neither is Yale's. And that's in spite of their commitment to meeting 100% of need.</p>
<p>marite, I would be interested in knowing what %age of those kids "turning down" schools that don't usually hear "no" are in the same income ballpark as D and the OP's D? The $75K or so range ($70-100K maybe?) . I wonder if somebody has that data. </p>
<p>(We had a Fafsa of $13,700, a Profile of @ $17K and non-grant costs at Yale of $25K.) </p>
<p>As we tried to inform Yale of what we considered special circumstances , I just get the feeling that my group of income folks may make up a significant portion of those opting for greener pastures. I approached Yale and Amherst with an offer to discuss the problems of the middle class family and FA, specifically the self employed and owners of farms and ranches (yep, nothing is easy in my world) and neither responded. It has made me change my opinion of both institutions for similarly situated families in need of FA. (If anybody is reading from FA at either , I'm still happy to talk ;)).</p>