Advice Please: Narrowing Colleges

Parents Forum
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<p>M'm, I think Barnard is unique -- nothing quite like it -- but many large universities have some affiliation with smaller college programs. My d. was also accepted at Gallatin at NYU --<a href="http://www.nyu.edu/gallatin/"&gt;http://www.nyu.edu/gallatin/&lt;/a> - Gallatin has only 1200 students, and offers students the opportunity to work closely with faculty as they fashion their own individualized majors. </p>

<p>But these colleges might not be a great place for a kid who is sports-oriented; they tend to attract more artsy, intellectual types. (Though part of Barnard's uniqueness is the fact that its women can play Div. I athletics through Columbia -- I don't think there are any other LACs or women's colleges that are Div I - which could be a strong attraction for some athletes).</p>

<p>But in general, athletic opportunities are going to be greater at larger colleges and universities. Of course, the whole Div I / Div III / club sport issue is an entirely different set of issues your daughter may want to explore, and I have absolutely -0- knowledge of how that plays out. It kind of depends on how committed your daughter is to her sports and how good she is at them - and also whether she is interested in pursuing athletic scholarships. It can also convert the college search into a search for the best or most compatible teams -- down the line your daughter could very well be choosing a college based on how much she likes a particular coach. But she's likely to have a very different, though overlapping, set of college choices if she focuses on athletics as opposed to an academic interest.</p>

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<p>Madeline'sMom, The combination of sports, art and academics is a powerful draw for many colleges. Even if your daughter doesn't intend to major in art (or even take art courses) she should start putting together a portfolio of her work to submit with her applications. The college websites will give you instructions under "supplemental materials" but, basically, a selection of different media is preferred.</p>

<p>My son is not a team athlete but he's very physically active and outdoorsy. He wanted a school with extroverted, happy kids that also offered strong art and art history departments. These are some LACs that I recommend for a a sporty, outgoing kid with art as a extracurricular: Smith, Skidmore, Hamilton, Kenyon, Wesleyan, Williams, Conn College. </p>

<p>Also could you please clarify your financial position? Will you qualify for need based aid or will you require merit aid? If the former, then your daughter's list is open ended. If she definitely will need to receive merit aid, then it's going to be a different list. This is a critical distinction to make upfront.</p>

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<p>We have a combined income of about 75000. The median income where we live is 55000, so we are doing pretty well for where we live but not when you think of how much college costs. I have saved about 25000 for my daughter's education, not that it makes much of a dent. She works and pays her own social expenses (movies etc) but she mostly works in the summer as she spends about 24 hours a week at her sport. She'll work more this summer, being older. </p>

<p>Preppy? Probably more sporty than preppy. Artsy too I think. She could really go with any of these. She's pretty comfortable with most people. She's a jeans person who likes to have times to dress up. She usually does her hair nicely even if she's wearing sweats. She does zany hair wraps sometimes, or tries new styles. Very little if any make up. </p>

<p>Coed? She has always had lots of friends who are boys. I don't think she'd discount a women's college outright if there were guys nearby to have as friends. If not, that might be an issue.</p>

<p>How she does in her sport over the next year will matter a lot sport wise. She's not going to be a national recruit, that's for sure, but she is good enough to be on some college teams now. That really doesn't say much because there is such a range. She is talented. She is also very dedicated and self-motivated and a fantastic team mate. As an extracurricular it is a good one. The down side is that she spends so much time at it. She has gotten really good at time management, I must say.</p>

<p>Besides pediatrician, some careers she has considered over the years are physical therapist, scientist, lawyer for cases involving children, having her own business, designer of things such as perfume bottles or houses, and teacher. She has also talked about FBI, Navy, Air Force, which I admit scares me.
I know some of these involve certain schools or programs, but it is hard to imagine she'll be that much more focused in just a year when she has always been all over the place with her interests. </p>

<p>She usually has a project of some sort she is working on, and she always always has a book she's reading. I asked her if she sees herself more as smart, social, athletic, or artistic, and she said she couldn't pick one. Even when I pressed her to choose, she said she couldn't because she wouldn't be herself if she wasn't all of those things. That's about it in a nutshell.</p>

<p>Thank you all!</p>

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<p>On the basis of the info. given in your posts, you may want to consider: St. Lawrence University in upstate New York. 2200 athletic, social and outgoing students. Great financial aid. Colgate University in New York. Athletic, intelligent, outgoing students-about 2800 or so. Kenyon College in Ohio- about an hour north of Columbus. Best athletic facility in the country for a school of its size--2400 students. Gorgeous campus-even more so than St. Lawrence Univ.!- with outstanding English, writing and drama programs. Both St. Lawrence (SLU) and, I believe, Kenyon just put a lot of money into science facilities. The Air Force Academy in Colo. Springs, The US Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland, The US Military Academy at West Point, New York and The US Coast Guard Academy in Conn.(across the street from Conn. College) offer summer leaders seminars to phsically and academically qualified students during the summer between junior and senior year of high school. Very competitive, very serious but non-binding week long experiences. AFA acceptance almost guarantees admission into the Academy! These are highly sought after summer opportunities! Also visit Conn. College where a St. Lawrence Univ. lacrosse alum is the athletic director. These are not easy to get to but are great schools for you to consider. Pennsylvania has lots of excellent schools close togrther like Franklin & Marshall, Bucknell, etc. Towson in Maryland is athletic and fairly preppy, but may be worth a look depending upon SAT scores and other factors. Trips to SLU and Kenyon will be quite valuable based on your posted info.!!</p>

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<p>Tip # 2: Even if she is not a recruited athlete--be sure to include a video of her playing the sport.</p>

<p>I have known a few college athletes. I'd say 50% of the ones I know--even those who got into Harvard on the back of their sport--drop out of college sports. College sports is a job and it can diminish the quality of the experience. Don't diso**** intramural sport as the place to get that athletic buzz.</p>

<p>There is a CC thread with a list of the best Merit Money colleges. That's a good list to start from. then, depending on her SATs, youmight want to add a super reach or two--and wait until April to see where the money falls. Send a PM to curmudgeon to ask for advice. He has a smart scholar atlete D who ended up with all sorts of fantastic acceptances and financial awards.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
diso****

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Gotta watch those transposed letters.</p>

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<p>JHS, there should just be spell check, that's all.
Back to the discussion.</p>

<p>Ok, I should say I listed possible careers she has mentioned at various phases just to show how all over the place her interests are, but I could truly see her in those careers. Except military is the hardest for me to imagine because I don't think of it as being all that creative, and she couldn't hurt a fly. BUT--she could fly jets or be in charge of the running of a submarine and she would love those things. I think what she gets out of athletics is challenge and the thrill of competition. She could stop the athletics in college if other passions take over, yes, I agree Cheers. Or get injured. So that's why I hope she finds a good place to be without athletics at the forefront even though it will be part of it. </p>

<p>I don't quite get whether I should have her check out merit or need aid schools. I looked up the websites of a few of the schools suggested. Kenyon and St. Lawrence have need and academic merit. Conn. College and Williams
are need aid only, and merit list schools are suggested by Cheers. So, keep open to both? </p>

<p>Thank you so much for all suggestions. I am making a list for her to check out. Any schools more to the south? North is fine though too. I googled honors colleges, just in case she is eligible for those.
I think she will be in the top ten percent of her class of several hundred and she probably can do well on the SAT and ACT. She usually tests standardized 99%. Low range about 95. Her counselor says her transcript is stellar. </p>

<p>Have a happy weekend everyone, and thank you.</p>

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<p>New College of Florida
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<p>M'sMom, Have you tried one of those on-line calculators to get an idea of what to expect in need based aid? It's not infallible but it's a good place to start. The college application process requires a good mix of optimism and realism and that applies to money as well.</p>

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<p>The school counselor said that there are so many differences between colleges with their aid methods that we should check out each school that our children are interested in. Now that you all are helping us narrow things down from the hundreds of possibilities, I can look into that more. I looked at the financial sites of the aforementioned schools and they use many different kinds of loans in the aid and I wouldn't want to have many of those so close to retirement. I also don't know if my daughter would be much of a contender for merit aid, seeing as how her rank is lower and her extracurricular list might be thin. If I can get her to open a standardized test review book maybe she will do well on those tests, so I am trying to be optimistic about that. There just seem to be so many "ifs" -- that is what is scary about this whole thing. There is my beautiful bright daughter, and then there is me, the trembling one. But if you want optimism, my daughter is the poster child for that. I've realized high school is boring her to tears, and yet she proceeds with a smile on her face, a song in her heart, and spring in her step. I am really appreciative of everyone's stories of their own ultimately successful children, and all your other thoughts.</p>

<p>This was just a late-night rambling. Sorry for that.</p>

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<p>Just a couple of things off the bat. It is early but it ain't too early. Just recognize that what she loves today may not be what she loves as a senior. The amount of growth left in our younguns is phenomenal. Don't let her rule anything out. </p>

<p>My wacko ruled out Emory because she was intimidated as a sophomore when lunch let out and 30,000 folks came out of the hospital and CDC and the Carter Center and the Med and Law school. "Get back in the truck dad. " Just a horrible result at a great school she would have loved.</p>

<p>2nd and most important thought. We gots to get your mind right about the cash going in. The money is what it is. You have to know where you are, and communicate where you are to your child. Invest them in the process. If Yale is only doable if you get the most stupendous package of need aid ever, tell her that before she gets elihu tatooed on her :eek: . </p>

<p>Your GCs are , as is normal, without a clue on FA. The Fafsa is the same everywhere as is the CSS Profile. The individual schools tweak things sometimes mightily but the source docs are pretty standard. These things can be calculated with some certainty for most folks with W-2 wages only. Hint: Middleclass folks are not in the best position. </p>

<p>So let's concentrate on bucks and go from there. (We'll walk you through. ) This will give you a roadmap of where you need to be looking. It's not a good idea to take your D to the Ferrari store when you don't have the bucks (need-based aid or cash) to buy it. You can rest assured there are choices that will be available to her. </p>

<p>Search on my name for threads started by me and others on "Merit aid". Go to finaid.com and start reading. Do the calculators for FM and IM on the Collegeboard site. Use Princeton's online calculator. It is usually the most generous. Use Dartmouth's . It's never the most generous. ;)</p>

<p>There are 200 places I can name right now that would challenge , excite, and educate your kid. Some small, some large and here's the key- some of which may be affordable if you get a plan of action and entrust it to your kid and enlist your kid, empower your kid. Give them the data . Give them the choices. You just drive the bus around for a couple of years. And remember to have a great time. It was the best time of my life. I really enjoyed the time logged with my kid. I wouldn't trade a minute of it. And 15,000 miles is a lot of minutes. </p>

<p>When you get further along, I'll tell you that we have to get her to pick her safety first. That school she'd love to attend that worst case scenario you can still afford. After that the pressure is off and y'all can have as good a time as we had.</p>

<p>Oh.. almost forgot. Welcome to CC. I'm curmudgeon and my kid is home for 8 days. :)</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
I'm curmudgeon and my kid is home for 8 days

[/quote]

Then what the h ell are you doing still on the computer?? :) </p>

<p>Seriously MM, if you're looking for info on financial aid, great schools, and how to make the two co-exist, curmudgeon's the man.</p>

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<p>lderochi, notice the time of the post. ;) She was steeping in a two hour jacuzz with the new Traveling Pants book. Dorm showers are not quite the same.</p>

<p>and MM. Contrary to what you are hearing, my utility is really very limited. But for the right kid, I do have access to a map. ;)</p>

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<p>Curm,
How did D manage to get home?</p>

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<p>$406 . Studentuniverse. But they gave her an extra pillow and a blankie. Grrrrr.</p>

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<p>a blankie! LOL, Cur, you are hysterical!</p>

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<p>MM</p>

<p>My 2 cents: yes, this is early, and yes you can relax. It is great, though, that you and D are thinking, talking, and looking right now. Odds are extremely good that, with all the information you and she will have, come senior year, the list will be manageable. The prospect of actually going to college is 2-1/2 years off, right? This has to feel a little bit like trying on different costumes and all of them are fun. She will mature and change in the next years; reality can have an interesting, distilling effect!</p>

<p>--mafool</p>

<p>p.s. she is fortunate that this is on your collective radar screens right now. People in our little town thought it was cruel and unusual punishment when I took S on a trip to visit colleges for Spring Break jr. year. No, he wasn't kicking and screaming. But most around here start to sort of pay attention somewhere around October senior year.</p>

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<p>Whoops! I was on the fly and didn't see that shocker. Thanks JHS.</p>

<p>However, I can check out now. curmudgeon is the Merit Man around here. He'll be able to tell you about rank. My guess is that rank isn't as important as +1500 SAT scores but let the experts tell you.</p>

<p>From what I've seen over my three years on CC, it's the Merit packages that are the usual stunners. Sure there have been some great fin aid deals but mostly...it seems like CC parents have been disappointed with the Fin Aid--and thrilled by the merit awards. Just my impression.</p>

<p>*cur: that's $50 per day, probably $10 per mudge-hug? Shoot, I'd take that deal.</p>

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<p>There are many schools near Kenyon College in Ohio. By "near" I mean within two hours driving time. For very generous financial aid, you may want to check out Ohio Weslyan, a LAC. Not as renowned academically as Kenyon College, but very social, athletic and outgoing students. It is quite difficult to give accurate advice before SAT or ACT test scores are known. Do not fret over finances regarding Ivy League schools, St. Lawrence Univ. or Kenyon as they all will make it work if your daughter is accepted. Connecticutt College may not be for your daughter as it traditionally has been for wealthy kids who are also either artsy or athletic-but financial aid is not the best. Gorgeous campus and setting, I wrote of it because it is next to the Coast Guard Academy. Conn. College used to be all girls but has been co-ed for many, many years now. Also look at the Univ. of Kansas Honors Program. Beautiful campus set high up on a bluff. Has one of the top Spanish and Portuguese programs in the US. Not much diversity; upper middle class kids in a really dynamic college town. When your daughter gets her SAT or ACT scores, PM me as I have a wealth of experience that I am not comfortable sharing publicly, especially because advice I share with you will be specifically for your situation. Forget worries regarding money. Do not forget Kenyon College and St. Lawrence Univ. when we share info. after test results. Also forget needing 1500 SAT scores as this is not a realistic goal for over 99% and is not necessary for merit or fin. aid. It is fairly important to get over 1350 on a 1600 scale SAT unless substantial leadership qualities present. Or athletic, art talent, etc.</p>

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<p>


By all means gather info from wherever you can. I'm no expert like Garrity and I have no secret insider knowledge I can't divulge in public. I'm just a dad who went through this last year. I have shared everything we did and everything we know. </p>

<p>I guess you could say D was somewhat successful as she received two full rides at excellent LAC's and the highest scholarships at a few others. I think we calculated that at her 11 merit schools she was over $900,000 in merit awards. Her lowest private school was over 1/2 COA. But all of this was done with advice I received from great folks on this site whom I owe dearly and am endeavoring to repay ;) and from easily accessible books and websites.</p>

<p>All I know is that for us and many other familes in your income bracket Garrity's lines about not having to worry about money in the college search are horse....uhhhh...crap. Horsecrap. Off a similar income , your $25K would be gone in one year without loans or workstudy with D's award a an Ivy. No offense meant Garrity but that's a surefired way to get your D stuck on a high dollar high prestige school you can't possibly afford. **Don't drink the Kool-aid.<a href="BTW,%20BIG%20HINT:%20read%20up%20NOW%20on%20finaid%20about%20where%20to%20have%20that%20$25K%20residing.">/b</a></p>

<p>The need based awards D received at Yale and Amherst , traditionally considered schools far more generous than the Kenyons of the world, were "not good". (Although the need awards at other schools were quite a bit better. Search on my name for "preferential packaging".) </p>

<p>Good luck OP and remember to have a ball, but don't drink the Kool-aid. ;)</p>

<p>Oh, I almost forgot. The higher the ACT or SAT score, the better chance at most merit scholarships. Those who discount the effect of higher scores haven't been in trenches fighting for full tuition merit or better at top 100 uni's or LAC's. It makes HYP admissions look like Romper Room. Most of the most prestigious awards are very holistic but everyone who got the award my kid did at her chosen school had a 35 or better ACT or a 1500 or better SAT, along with everything else. Look, these schools are trying to snag HYP kids. It's only natural that they are looking for HYP stats.</p>