Affirmative Action has gone too far

Applying to College
241

<p>"Typical Asian?
Hmm, I am extremely interested in applying to Harvard. However, I'm scared to death about falling into the "too typical" asian group in admissions.</p>

<p>Here are some of my "asian" stats:</p>

<p>Swim team</p>

<p>High Academics</p>

<p>Science Research (Westinghouse Regional Semi, City of Hope intern, Baush & Lomb, ISEF regional finalist...some top stuff)</p>

<p>Piano 12 years (nothing big)</p>

<p>Key Club</p>

<p>Here are some stats that I hope can diversify me in that group:</p>

<p>Water Polo (may get recruited)</p>

<p>Boy Scouts (Eagle Scout, SPL, ASPL)</p>

<p>Just need some comments on how I can diversify me in that group...
harvard<em>polo</em>08 is offline "</p>

<p>I think this is funny, weird how after someone's starts feeling insecure suddenly a post from them appears in this thread.</p>

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<p>ha yes that does sound too typical and they might reject you or you might be the lucky "typical" guy that gets in but that's like buying the lottery and not good</p>

<p>key club ha i was in that, and dont tell me nhs, bunch of math awards, rite? i got reject from harvard... and im asian, chinese to be exact so ha no luck for me unless i was like viet or something they mite look at it</p>

<p>but anyways, i would suggest a very very very good essay like spend so much time on it and make it real, heart felt, and interesting to read all at the same time but of course u probably already know that but im just stressing it, and then maybe more important community stuff</p>

<p>like habitat humanity or some kind of humanitarian work</p>

<p>i sat there for 2 days thinking... y did i get rejected? then i read the stats of all the acceptees, and either they were lucky, well maybe their essays were good, or they were extraordinary. so do something/make sure there is something extraordinary about u</p>

<p>and i dnot mean that by varsity letters or boy scouts... that just makes u all the more "perfect" but "typical"</p>

<p>i am beginning to think harvard doesnt really like ur "school' extra curriculars like news paper editor or such but more "meaningful" things. like if YOU started a ping pong team and you guys won state/us champion or something..</p>

<p>on the list of things you say, there should be something like... jump out at the admission officer and make then say WOW this person is so intersting. then i guarantee that you will get admitted anywhere you apply. </p>

<p>haha best example is that guy i hope he's okay with me using this.. that had a recommendation from king of cambodia and parliament members i hope he wasnt being sarcastic, and his humanitarian work in 3rd world nation was his essay topic</p>

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<p>"haha best example is that guy i hope he's okay with me using this.. that had a recommendation from king of cambodia and parliament members i hope he wasnt being sarcastic, and his humanitarian work in 3rd world nation was his essay topic"</p>

<p>I think he was being sarcastic.</p>

244

<p>Maize,
I think you just like to argue. I have not read this entire thread because it is way too long, but I do have a couple things to say. My first question is this. How do you rectify centuries of slavery and then another century of racism and oppression? Just think about it for a second. Racism was running rampant throughout our country just about two - three generations ago. African-American's (who applied to college this year) grandparents could not go to college. They then formed a different mindset: college is not important, and it is not a reality. Do you know how many minorities still think that college is not that important, or even that it is not their reality? Do you know that the kids who are getting into these colleges are the best of the best of African-Americans in this country? If these colleges did not accept these kids, there would be NO African-americans in top colleges, or just college period. How can a legacy be formed if the people have no chance of ever being admitted. I promise you that the next generation of African-Americans will have test scores just like all these other kids, but it will take so much time to change the mindset. AA is trying to correct this mindset that so many African-Americans have. Now a negative consequence of AA is the fact that other kids then have prejudices of the minorities on campus as not deserving to be there. People are going to be bitter, but lets be realistic. How many african americans are actually on these campuses? 5-10% that is so small it is unreal. At Northwestern, there are 105 blacks in the 2008 class, and God knows how many of them are atheletes. Then, let us eliminate the kids who got in from AA, o look now out of a class of 2,000 we have 5 blacks. AA will eventually phase out because the playing field will eventually level, but there are so many kids that still are so lost. So many black males are not going in the right direction it is sickening to me. So many minorities are in horrible situations. without AA things would not change. Also, basing it on economic status would not change anything either. Usually, poor african americans dont want to have anything to do with a harvard or princeton because they dont feel comfortable in that environment. IT IS NOT THEM OR A CULTURE THEY ARE ACCUSTOMED TO! They WILL have something to do with a black person who graduated from harvard, then they will be like, maybe i can go there too! Role models and examples need to be set in this generation, so that they can then go back and reach the other african americans in their community. Again, remeber that blacks were in a horrible position in poverty. College was not a question and was not a part of their life. AA makes it more of a part in their life, more of a reality. and the "richer" African-americans are really the only people who can make a big difference.
With that all said, I am an African-American, and I did well on my standardized tests, i had great grades, and amazing extracurriculars. I deserve to be where i am, and i will never let anyone ever tell me that I am not qualified. I am also going to have a great impact on my community, i am going to personally make sure that I help future black kids so that they can get a 1550 on their SAT and it is not any more amazing than a white kid doing so. With that said I am leaving. Maize, I know you will have some witty remark, or some snide reply, and quite frankly, I don tthink you will ever change your mind. BUT dont bash AA as reverse racism or whatever you are saying. IT is helping and it will take time. It will take a lot of time and it will work.</p>

245

<p>"Nah, they know it because I told them step by step and was not refuted!"</p>

<p>Uhhh.....huh?</p>

246

<p>I was rejected from Brown. I am a black male from Mississippi in the top 10% of my class with excellent recs and ECs and poor and I mean parents annual salary under 20k poor. Don't give me that AA is out of control crap because you didn't get into your dream school. I didn't into my top choices and I know why. College admissions is a crap shoot accept it and move on. I did.</p>

247

<p>Take a look:</p>

<p>"Notwithstanding the increased selectivity and socioeconomic diversity, the prospective Class of 2009 is statistically similar to the current freshman class in several respects, Fitzsimmons observed." </p>

<p>Source: <a href="http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=506759%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=506759&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I thought this quote was particullary interesting. It underlines the fact that most of you on this thread are suffering from a bad case of sour grapes. </p>

<p>More:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/daily/2005/03/31-admissions.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/daily/2005/03/31-admissions.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/connecticut/ny-bc-ct-brf--yaleadmission0331mar31,0,4979685.story?coll=ny-region-apconnecticut%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/connecticut/ny-bc-ct-brf--yaleadmission0331mar31,0,4979685.story?coll=ny-region-apconnecticut&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.ascribe.org/cgi-bin/behold.pl?ascribeid=20050401.072826&time=09%2021%20PST&year=2005&public=1%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.ascribe.org/cgi-bin/behold.pl?ascribeid=20050401.072826&time=09%2021%20PST&year=2005&public=1&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/april6/admits-040605.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/april6/admits-040605.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>"Excellent grades didn't necessarily clinch students' chances of admission; of 1,500 valedictorians of their high school classes, Duke admitted only 41 percent. </p>

<p>Nor was a high SAT score any guarantee. Only about half of the 3,100 applicants who scored 1,500 or better -- within 100 points of the best possible score -- were admitted. </p>

<p>The overall strength of our applicant pool makes our job more challenging in many ways, because we find ourselves turning down many exceptional applicants who we would have admitted just a couple of years ago," said Christoph Guttentag, director of undergraduate admissions, in a release."</p>

<p>Source: <a href="http://www.herald-sun.com/durham/4-592418.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.herald-sun.com/durham/4-592418.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

248

<p>I understand what you are saying, but you shouldn't make generalizations about African-Americans or any other racial group. </p>

<p>Let's get one thing straight: AA is not solely for the benefit of African Americans.</p>

249

<p>mjs4n6, a tip for later posts. Please seperate your thoughts into paragraphs. that was probly the best case for AA I have ever read though</p>

<p>kinda iffy on my stand on AA right now. but I just want to point sometihng out. Pro AA people say a lot that anti AA people are mainly white or asian people (those hurt by Affirmative action) who are just mad that they didn't get into their dream college. Even if this is the case (which I doubt), that doesn't nullify their position. Usually the people who stand up to an unjust law (if you assume AA is unjust) are those negatively affected by it. Tkae the Civil Rights movement for example. Nearly everyone who marched and protested was a black person who felt they were being mistreated and cheated (which they were). </p>

<p>Just my two cents</p>

<p>BTW, befor eanyone flames me, I am not saying ending AA is the same as ending segegation with the civil rights movement. Nor am I saying AA is unjust (or just).</p>

250

<p>Everyone makes a good point on this forum. There is no point arguing over affirmative action being right or not, people just have to learn to live with it. And yes, some of you may have been rejected from your top choice college to make room for an ethnic minority, but so what? Life is unfair, learn to deal with it. There is no such thing as an even playing field. Even if a college explicitly says (such as the schools in CA) that they do not consider ethnicity, there is still a psychological tendency to choose the poor well-qualified student over the rich well-qualified student. Having said that, I agree with what mjs4n6 has to say. True, affirmative action is unfair to well-qualified but over-represented students, but it gives a chance for the underrepresented students to climb from the bottom of the social ladder. You have reasons to be proud of your achievements mjs4n6, and nobody is saying that you got into a good college just because of your ethnicity. Don't try to place the blame on something else (ie affirmative action, parents, teachers who hate you), learn to blame yourself. I may have been rejected by my topchoice school, Stanford, for reasons that I don't know (or ever want to know), but the only person I have to blame is myself for not working hard enough for that goal. LIFE IS UNFAIR PEOPLE, DEAL WITH IT. And in case you're wondering, I am an Asian American.</p>

251

<p>After 13 pages and 249 posts, some of here still don't get. NO ONE GETS REJECTED TO MAKE ROOM FOR MINORITIES! Colleges, particularly the ivies, DO NOT lower their standards for admissions for minority students. Moreover, just b/c one happens to be a non-Asian minority does not meant that they are on the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder. They are simply called URM b/c they apply in lesser numbers.</p>

252

<p>simple logic. if AA helps a less qualified minority get admitted to a college, a more qualified non minority must invariably be rejected. only so much room on one campus</p>

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<p>To be greater qualified does not mean that one has a higher SAT score OR GPA. There are numerous factors such as the essay, personal statements, and supplemental materials that are equally taken into consideration during the admissions process.</p>

254

<p>I think people tend to argue on these threads because they think they can change someone's mind. It's pretty clear that there are arguments for both sides and no one's mind is changing.</p>

255

<p>But the fact of the matter is that if AA does what it is intended to do, minorities will get spots in a class that would otherwise go to nonminorities.</p>

256

<p>sorry i did not mean to sound like i was making generalizations. I was just noting trends. I think pretty much what i said was accurate, but i know it does not apply to everyone. I hate this argument though! i wish it would all end.</p>

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<p>"Nor was a high SAT score any guarantee. Only about half of the 3,100 applicants who scored 1,500 or better -- within 100 points of the best possible score -- were admitted."</p>

<p>Great, that just makes me and my 1550 SAT and rejection letter feel worse.</p>

258

<p>"I think people tend to argue on these threads because they think they can change someone's mind. It's pretty clear that there are arguments for both sides and no one's mind is changing."</p>

<p>So true,People see what they want to see out of these threads, ha I gave up a while ago</p>

259

<p>HA HA </p>

<p>A lot of BITTER LOSERS on this thread who are angry because they got rejected from HYPS, etc. I'm glad they didn't get in because it seems like this "objective" analysis of AA is nothing more than thinly veiled racism. Maize says that he has no personal interest in this....most likely not true. Probably an Ivy reject who is now bitter. I mean Yale, Harvard, etc. have about 6-8% blacks. 6 out of every 100 students. maybe 5-8% Latinos. Most of the student body is composed of white students and Asian students. If you are a non-URM who feels that their spot was stolen by those damn URM's, why are you so sure that you would've been chosen if not for them? What makes you so special? I mean, everybody doesn't have thousands of dollars to burn for KAPLAN test prep. Even for the few poor minorities that get to take the prep classes, these services cannot make up for the disfunctional public schools within our cities. Inner-city students do not get the same preparation for SAT testing. It is just a fact. GPA, ECs, etc. are universal but the SAT test is not a good indicator because the schools outside the cities get better testing tips and they recieve better advice on strategy, etc. </p>

<p>Anyway I'm Black and I got into Yale, Princeton, Stanford, Columbia and many other top schools. Rejected by Harvard (Oh God and I'm Black!!!!) I raise my glass to all the non-haters on this thread and I lavish scorn on all others.</p>

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<p>"I mean, everybody doesn't have thousands of dollars to burn for KAPLAN test prep."</p>

<p>Which is how all us rich white boys get our scores right? I probably hate KAPLAN more than you do. Test prep closes the gap between me and other candidates by a lot. My SAT scores and my SAT IIs are on my profile and I didn't study for a single one. Compare that to the kid who got a 1350 the first time through and took a KAPLAN course and swung a 1490 the next time. Suddenly instead of a dominating score, I have a good score and the other person can make up the point difference with much greater ease somewhere else on their application.</p>