<p>It is ironic because affirmative action is only around because minorities get so easily offended over every little thing in the first place!!!</p>
<p>LOLLOLOLOL</p>
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<p>Oh yeah it’s AA you should be blaming…</p>
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<p>Yeah, that’s it…</p>
<p>No offense OP but you seriously need to look at the world around you and understand that it isn’t simply everyone for themselves, and everyone is not on equal footing and can therefore fight their way to the top like everyone else. Everyone is not given an equal footing and people of oppressed nationalities (especially blacks) in the U.S definitely have disadvantages until this day. To ignore the institutionalized discrimination that exists in this system is turning a blind eye to the obvious.
So you’re offended by affirmative action b/c some ignorant people around you don’t think you hold the brain capacity to succeed…shouldn’t you be offended by the ignorant people then?? Affirmative action was put in place to deal with the discriminating practices that many colleges had of not admitting people of color. You may look at it as a program that let unintelligent minority kids get into “good” colleges over smarter white kids- but that is not the case. It was created in REACTION to the ALREADY EXISTING DISCRIMINATING practices these colleges were doing. It was becoming alarmingly obvious that students of color, who did have the capacity to excel and succeed, were not being given a chance b/c they didn’t come from this or that middle or upper class high school, or the A’s they earned weren’t looked on as the same A’s that a kid from a upper middle class (usually white) earned.
True there are also disadvantages that come along with the class one belongs to (working poor, working, middle class, upper, etc.) but at the end of the day race still comes into play and that person, b/c of their skin color will probably run into more issues b/c ignorant people will look at them and immediately assume they don’t have the capacity to excel.
Also, making sweeping generalizations about how people of color view college doesn’t make you look any better than the people who make assumptions about you.</p>
<p>Dude…shut up.</p>
<p>While some URMs might be smart, the odds are that most of them aren’t.</p>
<p>^ yeah, but most people of any race aren’t smart, they’re average…what’s your point?</p>
<p>Condiments, what are you babbling about…people support AA because they want to get into harvard? that makes no sense as most of us aren’t minorities…this site is dominated by rich white/asian kids who love to complain about how racist AA is. occasionally we get a black kid complaining about how racist it is, but that’s a rare gem. also…most people on this forum are already in college and don’t care about admissions. </p>
<p>anyway OP if affirmative action insults you so much, put your race as Chinese and apply for Engineering at Caltech…hope that’s challenging enough for ya, good luck with that.</p>
<p>“Dude…shut up.”</p>
<p>Yeah, seriously, shut up before colleges decide to make the admissions game fair for all races. You’re spouting utter blasphemy. I mean what do you think this is…a democracy?</p>
<p>And here it goes again - the whole discussion that URM’s are underrepresented because they are poorer, not because of their phenotypes.</p>
<p>The fact that URM admitted trhough AA do better than similar income- and parental situation- controlled whites have to do with the “opporturnity” the HS URM underachiever perceives of being admitted to a college while an “all-white middle class kid” would see just shomething that is taken for granted.</p>
<p>The HS URM sees admission as the opportunity of his/her life, and took advantage of it. The “all-white middle class” kid doesn’t, but it has nothing to do with race, the URM kid probably is poorer than the non-URM kid whose spot he/she stole, and that’s it.</p>
<p>Underlying question: are top colleges (Ivy and other top institutions) places devoted to promovote social advancement of any particular category of people? I preffer to think them as places to foster the tomorrow’s intellectual elite, where the brightest and smartest should be admitted if there’s a shortage of availabe spots.</p>
<p>I do not oppose taking holistic approaches and so on, as long as race, gender and religious-affilitaion are completely disregarded in admission analysis (by saying it I mean: not even asking those questions, and giving numbers to portfolios * during and only during * admission proccess instead of names who can give clues about ethnics, sex etc. It should be COMPLETELLY IRRELEVANT something like “how is your skin pigmentation pattern”.</p>
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<p>Excuse me? What, are whites and Asians smarter than us little URMs?</p>
<p>I’m not the guy you’re talking to but I made a post somewhat relating to this a little while ago:</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/high-school-life/757288-hey-need-opinions-what-do-you-think-iq.html#post1063020821[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/high-school-life/757288-hey-need-opinions-what-do-you-think-iq.html#post1063020821</a></p>
<p>And to answer your question, yes. Though likely not due entirely to genetic reasons. And it’s certinly not to say at all that there are no smart Blacks or other URMs, but realize that there’s perhaps a reason why they are URM.</p>
<p>Y’all disgust me…that’s just trying to reinforce stereotypes, and that’s why URMs have to work so damn hard to be recognized!</p>
<p>Good rebuttal, I’m disgusting. Science is disgusting. The idea of intelligence is disgusting.</p>
<p>So am I atleast right then or did you have something more to say?</p>
<p>^ If anything the statistic you brought forth proves that IQ is significantly swayed by level of education and affluence and thus is not a valid way to measure actual intelligence.</p>
<p>I’m a URM and, quite frankly, I’m sick of these “I hate AA” threads. If you don’t like AA, then hats off to you. The fact still remains that there are a VERY limited amounts of African Americans who attend college, and AA allows for more African Americans to attend college, which also adds to a more diverse campus. Yes, some people do abuse AA, but many don’t. I for one am going to take advantage of AA as a URM, but at the same time, my grades/scores/rank are already pretty good. (I plan on raising my SAT score this Oct., by the way.)</p>
<p>Edit: I also forgot to mention that MANY minorities live in “not-so-good” neighborhoods… and I was one of them until a few years ago.</p>
<p>“^ If anything the statistic you brought forth proves that IQ is significantly swayed by level of education and affluence and thus is not a valid way to measure actual intelligence.”</p>
<p>Absolutely not…if you knew anything about the history of intelligence testing, you’d know that native New Guineans have been shown to have a higher overall intelligence than Europeans. Do you want to argue they have a higher affluence and level of education than Europeans? Also, measures of average cranial size and mass have shown that Asians are (on the average) smarter than Whites who are smarter than Blacks. Science can be a dirty thing and a blasphemous thing but it is most certainly not a fallacious thing.</p>
<p>^ Oh, it can be a fallacious thing - during the nazi regime, scientists like Dr.Mengele “proved” aryans/nordics were racially superior, more intelligent, etc - these were intelligent men with advanced degrees in the physical and life sciences. </p>
<p>I can’t believe people are seriously arguing blacks/latino’s are inherently dumber than other races. I’m not ignorant, i’m studying neural science/genetics so I’ve read a lot about the genetic influence on intelligence and the human brain. </p>
<p>I interned at Cold Spring Harbor Lab where James Watson (the nobel prize winning biologist who discovered the DNA double helix structure) was director and made those racist comments about Blacks being inherently dumber for “scientific” reasons - he shocked and disgusted thousands of scientists around the world and is no longer director here. I mean, the entire scientific community was outraged by him, does that surprise you? do you think it was out of political correctness?</p>
<p>I never said blacks were inherently dumber than other races. I said they tended to be. As I’ve seen a thousand times here, correlation does not equal causation. Whether or not you attribute that to affluence, education, diet, whatever, that’s not refuting anything I said.</p>
<p>And I’d say that level of affluence and education is determined by intelligence, not the other way around. Though there is a correlation between them.</p>
<p>It is ridiculous to assume that every single URM at a top university is less qualified than their white and Asian counterparts. Yes, it is true that on AVERAGE African-Americans and Latinos score lower on the SAT/ACT. So? It is not as if the URMs attending HYP had low GPAs in high school. They were at the top of their class, highly involved, and wrote strong essays to get admitted. If it irritates people that one aspect of their resume is SLIGHTLY lower, what is the point of even having a college application? (And, there are ORMs who get in with lower SATs as well) Why not just sumbit SAT scores and have the colleges accept all the people with the highest scores? Who is to say that someone with a 2200 would be less successful in college than someone with a 2300? When you get to a certain point, all applicants are qualified and have the proper skills necessary to succeed. That is when essays, ECs, letters of rec and diversity come into play. Isn’t it logical to admit highly qualified URMs or low income applicants if you realize that your campus is dominated by whites and Asians? I don’t think that should even be called AA; it should just be common sense. Now, I admit there are cases when it seems as if AA is abused, but I think those cases are a minority. I truly believe that the majority of URMs accepted at top unversities are no less intelligent than their classmates. And honestly, there are so few URMs at universities, that whites and Asians really should not be worried when applying. Regardless of race, if you have high stats, you will be accepted at a top school.</p>
<p>Can someone who supports racial AA give me their definition of racism?</p>