<p>As ever, the black-white gap in college graduation rates remains very large and little or no progress has been achieved in bridging the divide.</p>
<p>The elephant in the room is this: the change needs to come from within our community. Black parents need to take hints from the Asian parents and raise our standards. To suggest that we can’t do that is saying we are sub-standard, and I refuse to believe that. I’m every damned bit as good as a person of any other race and want no special favors.</p>
<p>That is true, but to condemn AA is like demeaning the fact that URMs who get into top tier schools are every damned bit as good as people of other races who get into similar institutions. I just don’t appreciate the fact that people claim that AA is the only reason why URMs get into these institutions. I’m sure you hate that people equate your success to AA when you clearly feel like you earned everything you receive. Just don’t take these similar achievements from other students. I am not saying that all URMs are prepared for college, because that is not true. Those who are prepared for college and attend these universities and succeed are the ones that never receive credit for their hard work. Likewise, no one ever recognizes the Black and Hispanic parents who preach hard work and education to their children, despite the broken education system that puts all US children at a disadvantage. That is all that I am saying.</p>
And she is back!!! So much for meaning what you say and saying what you mean.
And I don’t appreciate blanket statements like this one. Nobody “claims” that AA is the ONLY reason URMs get into ANY institution. The claim is that URMs with lower stats are getting into institutions ahead of students better qualified academically.
I think jazzpark said it very well: “I’m every damned bit as good as a person of any other race and want no special favors.”.
As long as AA offers an unfair advantage to one race/ethnicity, then ALL successful URM applicants are going to be suspect. Even if some/most have competitive stats the AA admits are going to cast doubt on the entire group. Add in the NATIONAL graduation rates…and it reinforces the perception.
No one? Ever? All US children? I sincerely hope your academic papers are more on point and have fewer generalizations than what you have displayed on this forum.</p>
You do know the accepted URM’s brings down the overall score range right? My guess is if you took out the URM’s from the overall average, the averages would go up. </p>
<p>It doesn’t matter because the URM at the bottom of the accepted SAT range is getting in ahead of the White/Asian applicant with the same score and similar GPA/EC’s.</p>
<p>I agree with you NuclearPenguins. While we’re at it, those legacies are also bringing down the accepted SAT range and getting in ahead of smart White/Asian/URM applicants. The athletes, they are the most egregious offenders, they are definetly bringing down the SAT range. I say we should get rid of them too. Those development candidates; we need to kick them out of colleges. They can go to community college like all the plebians. I know some white women in engineering and some males in LACs that were also bringing down the average. Let’s get rid of them. Great. Wow!, Look at that! Our SAT score range is 2400-2400. Sure we’ve missed out on the future Barack Obamas and Michelle Obamas, the Bushes and the people who will become the movers and shakers of tomorrow;but our intellectual brilliance is unmarred. Oh, wait, without AA and other URMs, we cannot have substantial debates on the many issues that affect america,there are only a few points of view and others are not represented. So the quality of the institution has suffered as a result. well, at least we feel smart.</p>
<p>Jazz park, I appreciate how you skipped over all the parts of my argument and irrationally decided to examine one statement I made and I also love how your only intellectual comment was
</p>
<p>You seem not to understand what socialism is</p>
<p>so·cial·ism
/ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Show Spelled[soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2.
procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3.
(in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles. </p>
<p>Explain how collective ownership has anything to do with a university that may be private (in this case the top schools are all private and a lot of public schools have done away with AA)?
I’m going to call you out on that jazzpark, I hate to be rude/offensive but you are being lazy.
It’s lazy not to read or address my entire argument and sum it into one brief snippet on socialism which has absolutely nothing to do with the anything I said. If this thread will degenerate into that then maybe I might as well use Godwin’s law and start calling everybody Hitler. Might as well let it all go to insanity.</p>
<p>I would argue that students are not academically complete without being able to understand race-relations and the history of America from different viewpoints but if you want to live in an ivory tower-- more power to you.</p>
<p>Aglages, yes, I do run hot and cold on the topic. As a normal, rational human being I am allowed to have doubts on whether AA is useful or valid. I know you have no doubts about your position, if ever. I’m sorry for you. If you want to examine my post history instead of making a cursory search, you will find hundreds of posts where I debate/analyze/lament or even attack AA from so many levels. I have around 800 posts, you are welcome to go through all of them. I cannot hope to go through your 1,849 because I regretfully have work to do. But the content of my previous posts is neither here nor there. What is here is the arguments I am making. Focus on that. Or you could dig through another 800 posts. I recommend a strong cup of coffee if you mean to do the latter. :)</p>
The context and opinions of your previous posts on AA are both “here and there”. While you may not know what you think about this subject from day to day and post to post, that lack of any consistent opinion makes your arguments seem uninformed. Your arguments in THIS thread come across more as childish sarcasm than actual suggestions or opinions. Perhaps your time would be better spent focusing on the work you “need” to do and leave the complicated issues like AA for those that can discuss the issue as adults.</p>
<p>i’ve been checking this thread out and i can’t believe what i’m reading. everyone should be a little more open-minded about affirmative action. there’s a reason for aa and eeo and the like. i know, i’ve been there. not as the person being “targeted” but a person who had the distinct disadvantage of being caucasion among many other caucasions who were discussing other ethnicities and how they shouldn’t be interviewed, hired, promoted, etc. on many occasions, and throughout my worklife. ofcourse affirmative action is necessary. what happens in the workplace is indicative of what happens all through life, including college. the folks who are running things are, way more than often, middle-aged and white. many, many, many of them have a certain idea of how things should look. i’m sorry to say, but if there wasn’t some sort of small consideration being given to minorities, our country would look like these folks want it to look like. there’s a reason for aa, and i personally believe that reason will be in existence for the rest of my lifetime.</p>
<p>I appreciate how you skipped over all the parts of my argument that you couldn’t begin to argue against.</p>
<p>I also understand about socialism, and I didn’t even have to Google it. But it’s very good you were motivated to look it up yourself. Now, you can begin to make a vague connection and build from that.</p>
I can’t speak for anyone else but I appreciate that despite not personally needing the advantages of AA…that you support it. Also thanks for contributing to the “2015 African American Results Thread” despite not having a vested interested in AA.</p>
<p>Lack of information makes arguments uninformed. If I haven’t been inconsistent on this thread, then it has no bearing on what I am speaking on. You haven’t bothered to read my arguments. Why am I wasting my time on you? You obviously have a bone to pick with AA, don’t listen to anything anyone says and arguing with you is like talking to a wall. If you have already made up your mind, I’m never going to change it. I’m sure that when you read my post you’ll sneer and say , “oh, that’s because she has nothing to say and no more points to argue.” And no matter what I say, you’’ probably have some comment relevant or irrelevant. And if you have no relevant comment, you’ll make personal attacks. Your posts aren’t worth the time. However, maybe in real-life you are a wonderful person.</p>
<p>Jazzpark, I already addressed your “socialism” comment and I’m not going to bother to address it again. Many colleges are private institutions. But I already said this. Again, did you read my post or skim it? Well, I have to go attempt to get ahead in life so people like you can continue to attribute my success to AA. I understand, it’s all one big circle. We are all interconnected. Without successful black people, you guys would have no one to gripe against. So I appreciate you, just like Jedis appreciate Siths. :)</p>
<p>Yes, socialism is about community ownership. Now, apply that principle to education. Everyone gets a piece of higher education, regardless of a people’s credentials. Therefore, more of the community “owns” a piece of higher education. In other words, higher education is being sprinkled among the community regardless of merit, thus diluting its value. Tying that in with the argument from the USNA instructor, higher education’s goal seems to be slipping further away from higher education and seems more to be about diversity. What that tells the black community is that we ain’t smart enough to compete on our own. I find that extremely insulting.</p>
Hey, I never said anything about those other groups. But while we’re at it, I agree that just because your parents/siblings/relatives went to a school, that you should benefit as well. Of course it’s not all about SAT scores. Things like GPA/EC’s/Essays count too. Everything that is about accepting the most qualified applicants, not about race. </p>
<p>You assume that minorities are the only ones who will be the “movers and shakers” of tomorrow. You’re basically saying all minorities who got into college got in only because of AA. There will still be brilliant minorities who will be admitted to those universities. Plus, you can also have “movers and shakers” who are not minorities as well.</p>
<p>You also assume that the only reason there are substantial debates are because of minorities. Not true. Race =/= limited pionts of view. It’s funny when you say the quality of the institution is going to go down if you take out minorities, when in reality AA is bringing down the quality of the institution. </p>
<p>Also, I think it’s hilarious how you consider Bush as one of those “movers and shakers”. </p>
<p>LOL , I made this thread such a long time ago and happened to stumble apon it just now.</p>
<p>I did not read all the responses since my last post but, the main ideas when I scanned are.</p>
<p>-Jews recieeved repirations from Germany and America did not enslave the jews.</p>
<p>-Native Americans do get affirmative action, you are a moron for thinking otherwise, and no black people were enslaved much longer than native americans</p>
<ul>
<li>yes, time since slavery has passed but we are still suffering from it now, through racism etc.</li>
</ul>
<p>I don’t think it’s genetic. How do they not know it isn’t environmental? I can’t view the article for some reason but have scientists pinpointed an IQ gene or something? I doubt it.</p>