<p>I’m not a racist, but AA is just plain stupid. I wish this was like in England where you can’t make any judgments on race. Really if anything it should be AA based on socioeconomic issues. At my school you can clearly see how URM’s are getting preferences (likely letters, acceptances), over more qualified applicants. </p>
<p>It’s stupid really I mean the Chinese were not welcomed with opened arms in the US, yet you don’t see them getting any benefits. They made the damn railroads for goodness sakes. Jews get slammed all the time and they don’t get benefits either. Heck, asians are put at an even greater disadvantage than whites are.</p>
<p>For any doubters out there, look at what researchers at Princeton and Duke found. Blacks and latinos are generally less qualified than white and asian applicants. I’m not saying there aren’t blacks and latinos who are qualified applicants, its just as a whole they are lower quality applicants.</p>
<p>Oh, okay. Well let me make my point clear then since you are either unable or unwilling to see it: The adcom didn’t think so. Is a 5 word sentence clear enough for you?
I’m sorry your friend got rejected. Rejection sucks. But that doesn’t mean you have to insinuate that the girl with “significantly weaker” stats got in over your friend because she’s a URM. Do you know this girl personally?
Plus… lol. Maybe your friend didn’t stand out. Did you ever think of that? :)</p>
<p>And, LOL woeishe is a friend of mine. That was a nice try though.</p>
<p>So, why did the student need AA? That is what you’re either unable or unwilling to comprehend. If the student got in because of her well-roundedness or great essays, then more power to her. She doesn’t then need AA.</p>
<p>I do not believe the boost is as big as people claim. Every White person likes to point to the Black with lower qualifications that got in over someone White, yet they ignore the other Whites that got in with “lower qualifications”. Are they claiming their friend had the lowest score of every admitted White applicant and if it was not for that Black applicant in the way their friend would have been admitted. </p>
<p>I also find it interesting that Whites always know the GPA, SAT scores, ECs, recommendations, and the content of the essays written by all Black applicants.</p>
<p>California UCs no longer are allowed to use AA as a factor for acceptance, yet people claim the UCs use back door “tricks” to allow less qualified Blacks in. </p>
<p>I just wish the boost from AA was as great as people claim, then maybe the listening to the complaints would not bother me.</p>
<p>Example…I know a Black female who got rejected from Stanford…she had a 4.3 GPA and SATs that were outstanding. How come that tremendous AA boost did not get her accepted? Do you think that ever single White person accepted had a significantly higher GPA?</p>
<p>Yenmore we’re not saying that it’s true for every singe case. But if you look at the links I posted you will see that generally URM’s are looked at as less qualified. There are cases where white applicants have gotten in as well and it’s been weird.</p>
<p>It’s funny how a group of ignorant high schoolers think they’re fit to determine who deserves to be accepted into a school and who doesn’t.</p>
<p>@Robert: I’m on my phone and can’t be bothered to go back and forth reading your post. But did you ever think that:
Your friend lacked “passion” (I’m not particularly fond of this word, but eh)
and 2. Maybe the adcoms thought Stanford just wasn’t right for your friend?</p>
<p>Well if you look at the admission trends for a lot of top tier schools, if people have a lot of national level EC stuff, they grab them up pretty quickly, even if they might lack “passion,” since the (I forgot the actual term) matriculation rates at these schools are all so high that they don’t really need to worry about passion. I don’t know if he was passionate or not about Stanford.</p>
<p>Funny, not every single African-American in America is applying to top tier universities. In all actuality, URMs that apply to these schools and get in have stats that fall within the accepted ranges at these colleges. No one follows these applicants home and no one knows all of the factors of someone’s application. You may think that your friend is a great writer, but who are you comparing your friend to? Did you read all 30,000+ applications that colleges receive every year? Remember, you have to like your friend, but not everyone is going to view your friend subjectively. </p>
<p>Also, matriculation is very important to top tier schools, it is a large part of what makes them top tier. They are going to be interested in how interested you are in them. They don’t want you to just come to them with stats and then do nothing for 4 years and then go out into the world and use their school name. No one is just a test score or grades, and coming onto CC makes it hard to see past that. However, it is not our say. Colleges stress that they are building a class of people who are more diverse in thought than anything else. Having people who place their value in “stats” that no one but you are going to remember doesn’t seem attractive on paper, and that is why schools have essays, interviews, and other places to let the school know who you are. (i.e. the common app has at least 3 sections for writing, while only one page is dedicated to these stats) I find it unfortunate that people can’t get over it and worry about themselves. If your friend is so upset, let him/her speak for themselves instead of coming on here and blasting another student. if you were a real friend, you would be comforting them instead of posting on a message board.</p>
<p>Starryeyes nobody said that every single African American is applying to top tier colleges. You do know that URM’s probably bring down the test averages right? Just like how athletic recruits bring down the test averages usually. Not being racist, it’s just the facts. </p>
So much for…“You never saw their great essays and spectacular ECs”.
We certainly could not / would not expect the colleges themselves to make this determination. This way their hands are “clean”. They did everything possible to bring in a diverse class and advised those admitted under AA that they were “mismatched” and at risk.</p>
<p>By that argument, since white students are not scoring as well as Asian students; and since, you aglages, believe college decisions should be focused only on SAT scores/GPA–I say we completely stop accepting white students with lower SAT/GPAs than Asian students. Infact, I don’t see why the top schools shouldn’t be about 85% Asian. Those white people just bring down sat scores- its a fact. After all, the first year in college = all significant contributions one will make throughout four years. Good to know.</p>
<p>How do you explain an applicant ranked in the 20’s out of 400 some, who got in with early writes/likely letters to Swarthmore, Wash U, Rice, Dartmouth? Without spectacular test scores or any outstanding EC’s? Nobody else ranked above this applicant has gotten an early write/likely letter from those schools. And guess what, all the applicants more highly ranked are white and asian.</p>
<p>It just supports what the was found by the Princeton/Duke researchers in the links I posted.</p>
<p>^^ If the problem is not with URMs applying to top tier schools, why is that always an example that is used? In that particular case, the stats of URMs fall within the stats that these schools usually accept, as I stated before. Do you have a problem with AA as it pertains to the acceptances at state universities and some lacs, or is it with URMs getting into any college? Depending on the, for lack of a better word, “prestige” of a school the higher the graduation rate for URMs. In fact, in most cases the graduation rates are equal, and is sometimes even greater than the overall graduation rate of a school. Only in situations in which the school environment is not open to URMs, such as when these students are constantly attacked by hateful students who chalk up their success to AA or other social challenges, is the graduation rate for URMs at top schools where Asians and Whites make up a large proportion of the student body lower than the overall graduation rate.</p>
<p>Also, one must remember that percentages regarding success rates of URMs are often read incorrectly. URMs do not make up that much of the US population, so a graduation rate for African Americans of about a quarter, as it was in an earlier survey that was mentioned on this board is fairly large, and may be larger than that of the graduation rate of the rest of the US population. I believe that actual head counts of URMs who obtain a degree is a better measurement of success, as percentages can be distorted due to the small sizes of the various samples.</p>
<p>Another point that is constantly brought up is that most URMs only have “some” college, which I believe may also take into account the number of URMs who receive associates degrees or certificates at community colleges. Many URMs become nursing assistants and take on similar trades at larger numbers and seek education through for-profit universities. In the previous survey that was mentioned by @jazzpark, I believe no explanation was given in what “some” college may mean. By no means is an associates degree on the same level as a bachelor’s degree, which was the marker for African Americans who received a college degree.</p>
<p>Ask Bruce Fleming at the US Naval Academy about this. Tragically, some of the URMs admitted simply are not ready at all for the USNA, but the Academy is forced to admit them.</p>
<p>*According to Fleming, who once sat on the board of admissions, white applicants must have all As and Bs and test scores of at least 600 on the English and math parts of the SAT even to qualify for a slate of 10 applicants, from which only one will be chosen.</p>
<p>However, if you check a box indicating you are African-American, Hispanic, Native American, or Asian, writes Fleming, SAT scores to the mid 500s with quite a few Cs in classes typically produces a vote of qualified with direct admission to Annapolis. Theyre in and given a pro forma nomination to make it legit.</p>
<p>…Thus, though unqualified for college work, these students will be operating the most sophisticated and complex weapons systems ever built aircraft carriers, Aegis cruisers, nuclear submarines.</p>
<p>First of all, were dumbing-down the Naval Academy, charges Fleming. Second of all, were dumbing-down the officers corps.</p>
<p>Supporting Flemings claim, 22 percent of incoming plebes in 2009 had SAT scores in math below 600, compared to 12 percent in 2008.*</p>
<p>@aglages, nice, you must be so proud of yourself. You ■■■■■ this site bashing AA and “informing” other parents. The second part is fine, but forgive me if I can’t trust someone who has enough time on their hands to post nearly 2,000 messages. If you are an adult, which you clearly are, why don’t you focus on your job and your own kids. Clearly, your time to impact this world is over and you can’t stand the fact that high school kids of ALL races have a chance to be educated and change the world for the better. If you weren’t so insecure, you wouldn’t take every opportunity to come on this board and spew your ideology on others. As you probably know, this debate has been featured on this site thousands of times, and we most likely are never going to agree. I am over this debate on CC with people who refuse to accept the accomplishments of others, and likewise I am over you. Have a good life, really. You sound like you need it.</p>
<p>StarryEyes: LoL. I figured you were making that stuff up and didn’t have any sources. Sorry I had to “out” you.
“I am over this debate…”
Nice try. Once you lose credibility who cares how you put lipstick on the pig.</p>
<p>The information touches on the success rates of blacks at top tier universities. Seeing as how the AA debate seems to focus on URMs at these particular schools, you can see from the data that blacks perform and graduate from these particular schools. What everyone fails to realize is that URMs who manage to get into these particular schools can hold their own and succeed, and as such they are the true winners of AA. While the achievement gap remains high for students who do not attend such universities, AA for these students is clearly not a concern of yours. The only thing people seem to care about is how students are capable of achieving greatness despite various circumstances. AA benefits students who ordinarily would not have the chance to attend college, even people who are not a URM racially. I find it interesting that everyone only attacks students of color who manage to compete and get into top schools. </p>
<p>What you fail to outline aglages, is your problem with AA in general. I have asked several times if you are against AA being used for URMs to get into top schools, as it appears from your various examples, or AA in regards to URMs in state universities and smaller lacs, where the graduation rates are typically low for all students. Most students on CC are concerned with top tier universities, as these colleges make up a large majority of the pages on this site. There AA is debated nonstop, but it is clear that the URMs who get into these schools on their own accord are capable of competing alongside their peers.</p>