Affirmative Action: Unfair Advantage or Deserved Provision?

Student Lounge African-American Students
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<p>Well this is a debate isn’t it? Where you… debate??? Mind blowing concept, I know.</p>

<p>Plus, I am not making random facts, there have been numerous studies that show that AA exists, and it has a huge role. Show me where I “make up” facts? Hmm? Didn’t think I did.</p>

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Oh, who said this? </p>

<p>“Thats how we all start in the race, its not equal, no matter how much you want it to be because its"AMerica”, its not. Never will be, never has been. Thats not how the world goes round. Black people have to work the hardest to be successful in life, harder than any one else."</p>

<p>Sure as hell wasn’t me who said that, it was from your previous post. Now who is making up the facts huh? That sure seems like a sweeping generalization to me with nothing to back it up.</p>

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<p>Why can I not criticize what you’re saying? I’m arguing because I think AA is a flawed system, and should not exist. I’m not your sweetheart, and yeah being an Asian male is probably the worst demographic to be for college admissions. But really I’m not unhappy with my race and you don’t know me. So it’s not your call really. </p>

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<p>Oh yeah there’s perks, definitely. For URM’s duh. Black acceptance rates would fall by 2/3 and Hispanics by 1/2. So to say that it “really doesnt affect people at all” is just plain out wrong.</p>

<p>Those are my facts, provided by the one and only Princeton University: [Princeton</a> University - Study: Ending affirmative action would devastate most minority college enrollment](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/80/77I23/index.xml]Princeton”>http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S11/80/77I23/index.xml)</p>

<p>Are you saying that the results from Princeton are invalid, and not any grounds for an argument? Are you saying that Duke researchers are creating studies that are irrelevant, and are you saying that proof from the Naval Academy does not matter as well? Ok…</p>

<p>Here are the links for the last 2, BTW. [News:</a> Testing for ‘Mismatch’ - Inside Higher Ed](<a href=“http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/04/20/mismatch]News:”>http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/04/20/mismatch)
<a href=“Login - www.usna.com”>US Naval Academy Alumni Association & Foundation - www.usna.com;

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Go ahead and dissect what I just wrote. Unlike you, I won’t be offended by it.</p>

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<p>hey i haven’t read this whole thread and i’m just dropping my two cents in…</p>

<p>do people really forget about the other beneficiaries of AA like legacies, athletes, midwestern and southern residents, socioeconomic factors, disabled students, MIXED, bi-racial, whatever students (they’re the new black i guess), connections, and “donation” babies? yes, some of these are smaller than others but the advantage is still there. </p>

<p>I hate that people act as if these unworthy URM students are applying to these colleges and “taking” these oh so prestigious seats at HYSP, MIT, Columbia, blah blah blah because you know, they’re SO dumb and so undeserving. Does it ever register that maybe, just MAYBE a black, latino, brown, person might just have a better SAT score, personality, GPA, and essay than the white/asian students who got rejected? just saying.
And again, I do understand there are disadvantages. America is about 70% white, that correlates with applications. I bet it is hard to distinguish yourselves in such a pool.
I also hate that people think as if when black students apply to college they just get accepted! we get rejected too!! I got rejected to MIT (along with 88% of the applicants) but you understand what i’m saying… Me getting into selective universities has NOTHING to do with my 20th Century SAT score, me being 4th in my class, president/captain of the math, quiz bowl, science teams that have won numerous state titles, going to GSEF and winning these last two years, my uncountable hours of community service, my perfect tennis record (no i’m not being recruited) :P, and my great essay that made Vanderbilt call my house to say how it stood out amongst the thousands they read. nope, that wasn’t it at all. I only got in because, you know, i’ll contribute to their diversity agenda.</p>

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<p>I understand where you are coming from, but most people here are not saying that blacks and other minorities are getting into college only because of AA. Look in the links in the above post and you can see how there really are lower standards though.</p>

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<p>***! You insecure little…ugh. I’m not going to say anything. Its not worth it. Theres no way I can argue with someone who always thinks they are right.</p>

<p>I’m not going to deny what I said. Like I said before I was stating facts. And if you want to be a pompous A sshole. than go head. Knock yourself out. Literally.</p>

<p>Because Nuclear, you are obviously one of those Asians that think when a black person gets into a great school that “its only because of AA”</p>

<p>I don’t care if your offended or not. I just wanted to get it off my chest. I am done with the discussion, especially with INTERNET personalities like yours.=)</p>

<p>Have a great day now,</p>

<p>LOVE IS PEACE=)</p>

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<p>there is this person in my school who got into upenn with a 3.73uw, 30 act, did cross country(no sig awards), 3 clubs with no leadership/awards, no distinction in my school. she was upper middle class with no legacy. upenn rejected 4 people from my school who had better stuff than the person who got in in every level. her essay was not that great… I read it and its pretty much about how race affected her while growing up… see why people have problem with affirmative action? it was bad enough that he got in but he also had to brag about it. it is those kind of people that gives those of us who actually worked hard and are qualified a bad name</p>

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<p>Nowhere on a college’s website does it say “we only accept the people with the highest stats.”</p>

<p>Who are you to judge their essay? Another teenager that has no experience as an adcom. </p>

<p>Guess what? Everyone can’t participate in all of these clubs and be president of everything. I sure can’t do that while maintaining straight As and acting as a second parent by raising my little sister while my mom works hard everyday. </p>

<p>My situation is not the fault of my race, so no one claim that I’m saying that.</p>

<p>That doesn’t mean that I won’t thrive at a top college. Even if I had a 3.7.</p>

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<p>notice the part where I said she was part of upper middle class so I doubt she has to work to support her family. also, 2 people who were rejected came from poor families</p>

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<p>Class depends largely on occupation. </p>

<p>My moms a nurse, putting us in mid-upper middle class, but that doesn’t mean we’re rich.</p>

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<p>upper middle as in around 200k. one doctor one manager… all I’m saying is that it should be based on socioeconomic stats and not race</p>

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<p>No matter what schools say, they want as many full pay students as possible. </p>

<p>The financial aid and admissions offices aren’t totally disconnected from one another. </p>

<p>On a more important note— who said higher grades/more activities and awards makes a person <em>entitled</em> to get into a top school, or any school for that matter. Applicants compete with each other in stratifications. That’s why you hear people saying someone was rejected because they were “a typical Asian” applicant. Just like international students compete with each other. Colleges take the best of each kind of student, but that doesn’t mean theyll accept someone they think won’t thrive. </p>

<p>College is a business. They want successful grads to become successful adults and donate money and bring popularity to the school’s name. And they want people paying upfront. Less colleges go against this.</p>

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<p>^ sad but true</p>

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<p>So,Everyone, I have decided to make an epic list</p>

<p>Insightful Comments by aglages</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Sounds as though even your friends think you don’t deserve to get into your “likely” schools…and they have gone to school with you. What do you expect people that aren’t your friends to think about why a top school would admit you? Although we may agree on “hating” AA, only one of us is still willing to use it…and then complain about how others perceive them.</p></li>
<li><p>I think I’ll stick around to limit your racist whining. Try to get a clue.</p></li>
<li><p>Originally Posted by CPUscientist3000
“I need to get off of CC.”
Aglages says- Excellent idea.</p></li>
<li><p>Ahhhh… one of the benefits of AA…no need to know what “Deserved” means.
Quality post. Please…get a little break in your black life for being black…you’ve obviously earned it.</p></li>
<li><p>Keile: What do you think…about 200 years of AA, 40 acres and a mule enough to make up for “foundational” effects on African Americans?</p></li>
<li><p>Very considerate of the Ivy League schools to share this information with you. Excuse me for questioning the validity of your statement.</p></li>
<li><p>Can’t be easy being underprivileged in CT with a family income of only $65K. Please allow me to extend my sympathies. Clearly you are more deserving than the white kid that also has a disability and whose family has the same income as yours.</p></li>
<li><p>Got to love CC. Person starts a thread and then doesn’t bother to check back on it or read the responses…but…wants to report the “main ideas”.</p></li>
<li><p>No one? Ever? All US children? I sincerely hope your academic papers are more on point and have fewer generalizations than what you have displayed on this forum.</p></li>
<li><p>I think jazzpark said it very well: “I’m every damned bit as good as a person of any other race and want no special favors.”. </p></li>
<li><p>As long as AA offers an unfair advantage to one race/ethnicity, then ALL successful URM applicants are going to be suspect. Even if some/most have competitive stats the AA admits are going to cast doubt on the entire group. Add in the NATIONAL graduation rates…and it reinforces the perception.</p></li>
<li><p>And I don’t appreciate blanket statements like this one. Nobody “claims” that AA is the ONLY reason URMs get into ANY institution. The claim is that URMs with lower stats are getting into institutions ahead of students better qualified academically.</p></li>
<li><p>And she is back!!! So much for meaning what you say and saying what you mean.</p></li>
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<p>I think Marinebiosax said it perfectly
“classless,totally classless imo”</p>

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<p>Poor nil desperandum. Unable to respond to being “exposed”.
Lets add this one again for posterity:
“Although we may agree on “hating” AA, only one of us (nil desperandum) is still willing to use it…and then complain about how others perceive them.”</p>

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<p>Insightful Comments by aglages Updated</p>

<p>And we have another meaningless comment.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Sounds as though even your friends think you don’t deserve to get into your “likely” schools…and they have gone to school with you. What do you expect people that aren’t your friends to think about why a top school would admit you? Although we may agree on “hating” AA, only one of us is still willing to use it…and then complain about how others perceive them.</p></li>
<li><p>I think I’ll stick around to limit your racist whining. Try to get a clue.</p></li>
<li><p>Originally Posted by CPUscientist3000
“I need to get off of CC.”
Aglages says- Excellent idea.</p></li>
<li><p>Ahhhh… one of the benefits of AA…no need to know what “Deserved” means.
Quality post. Please…get a little break in your black life for being black…you’ve obviously earned it.</p></li>
<li><p>Keile: What do you think…about 200 years of AA, 40 acres and a mule enough to make up for “foundational” effects on African Americans?</p></li>
<li><p>Very considerate of the Ivy League schools to share this information with you. Excuse me for questioning the validity of your statement.</p></li>
<li><p>Can’t be easy being underprivileged in CT with a family income of only $65K. Please allow me to extend my sympathies. Clearly you are more deserving than the white kid that also has a disability and whose family has the same income as yours.</p></li>
<li><p>Got to love CC. Person starts a thread and then doesn’t bother to check back on it or read the responses…but…wants to report the “main ideas”.</p></li>
<li><p>No one? Ever? All US children? I sincerely hope your academic papers are more on point and have fewer generalizations than what you have displayed on this forum.</p></li>
<li><p>I think jazzpark said it very well: “I’m every damned bit as good as a person of any other race and want no special favors.”.</p></li>
<li><p>As long as AA offers an unfair advantage to one race/ethnicity, then ALL successful URM applicants are going to be suspect. Even if some/most have competitive stats the AA admits are going to cast doubt on the entire group. Add in the NATIONAL graduation rates…and it reinforces the perception.</p></li>
<li><p>And I don’t appreciate blanket statements like this one. Nobody “claims” that AA is the ONLY reason URMs get into ANY institution. The claim is that URMs with lower stats are getting into institutions ahead of students better qualified academically.</p></li>
<li><p>And she is back!!! So much for meaning what you say and saying what you mean.</p></li>
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<p>14.Poor nil desperandum. Unable to respond to being “exposed”.
Lets add this one again for posterity:
“Although we may agree on “hating” AA, only one of us (nil desperandum) is still willing to use it…and then complain about how others perceive them.”</p>

<p>Yeah, you caught me. I’m BLACK!!! darn it. You exposed me. ;)</p>

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<p>Item #14 is at the wrong end of the list. Being black is not a crime…but being a fool reflects poorly on you.</p>

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<p>I “hate” AA just as much as the next person, believe it or not.
But I’ll be the first to check off “black” and “latino/hispanic - Dominican Republic” on my college apps.
Oh my damn, am I exposed now too1/!/!?!?!?</p>

<p>Pfft.</p>

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<p>I’m with you!!!</p>

<p>I’ll make sure I DOUBLE CHECK the box under black that specifies that I am African American and not just African or something. </p>

<p>Wooo-hooo. AA feels good :D</p>

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<p>this is not a debate, stop tearing each other down. Do you even realize that when u get out into the real world that the people who are saying you don’t “deserve” to be where u are - are the same people who will say u got a job based on your race or u didn’t get fired because you’re black, and all sorts of other ridiculous things that white people say amongst themselves. you can see it on some posts in this thread. i’ve been there, i’ve heard it, it sucks, but it’s reality. even the most progressive of white folks find their covert ways to get their points across. so when you’re getting angry at someone for supporting or not supporting AA, just remember that there will always be white folks ready and waiting to tear you down, don’t do it to each other.</p>

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<p>I don’t know if this has been discussed yet but personally, I strongly dislike affirmative action. Though I am Asian, I’m also a female and in the field that I am entering, females are much wanted. So, basically, I actually benefit from affirmative action, despite my race. The reason I don’t like it is because it feels like they degrade us. Does it really matter what our race or gender is? I can understand how income level would be a significant factor (less resources, etc) but race and gender? I want to get into a college because of my own merits, without the unnecessarily added benefit of being a female. I’m happy to say that the college that I will be attending this fall is very selective and does not include affirmative action in reviewing applications. It makes me feel all the more accomplished that I was, in fact, chosen over the males because of my own merit, and not because of my gender.</p>

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