<p>Also you brought up Berkeley in a previous post and pointed out the percentages on race in the admitted students. If you look at the applications of the two colleges, it is not very hard to tell that they focus on two completely different aspects. The UC app, in my opinion, focused largely on numbers and stats, the Extracurricular section was limited, there were no Letter of rec’s needed, the essay prompts were restricting. They couldn;t possibly have seen the entire person. Whereas the Harvard supplement and Common App were very open and focused more on everything. As a senior who applied to both, I enjoyed the freedom of Common App as it allowed me to better express who I am as a person. Really you have to compare Apples to Apples. </p>
<p>Besides maybe not all of the minority individuals who applied had the same stats as the other races, but does that make them any less qualified? I think not! Look at the ranks. Harvard with its admission strategy is still number one. So what does that say?</p>
<p>Because you’re not taking the argument at an objective standpoint. You’re trying to justify that you got in on your merit.</p>
<p>Then tell me, on your common app, why didn’t you leave it blank.</p>
<p>And I never understood how someone can be proud of their ethnicity. You’re born into it. Are you proud to be lets say 5’7 feet tall, are you proud to have a disposition to certain diseases? I don’t think many people today understand what pride is. Ethnic pride is ridiculous no matter what ethnicity you are.</p>
<p>Really? And you are taking this objectively? What is your ethnicity may I ask? I would search your posts but I am not feeling especially stalkerish tonight.</p>
<p>It is impossible to take any argument truly objectively, so i am taking it as an individual who has read both sides of the argument and has made my decision as to which side I like better. I don’t know how I got in, I was not in the room with the admissions officers. Were you? Also since you are not in my mind, you also cannot make assumptions as to what I am trying to justify or not.</p>
<p>You assume I didn’t? Again you make way too many assumptions…look into a Theory of Knowledge class next year, it helps a lot in situations like these.</p>
<p>I can be proud that I am a Nigerian citizen, I can be proud that I live in America, I can be proud that I am 6 feet tall, I can be proud that I value my education, I can be proud that I am part of the human race, I can be proud of whatever I want to be proud of. We are entitled to our opinions, you have yours and I have mine, and the fact that you find it ridiculous doesn’t matter the least bit to me. That is the beauty of opinions. :)</p>
<p>Speaking of fallacy, Ad hominem. Argue the case, not the person.</p>
<p>…If SpeakerBoxer was Asian or even White, his arguments would make much more sense. But I do personally agree with thebioguy on this one. I don’t think SpeakerBoxer would be arguing the same if he too pulled the short end of the stick.</p>
<p>I live in one of the most affluent areas in the country, and I know this hispanic girl who got into Columbia. Her parents had a ton of money, and even though her stats were mediocre, she got in while several people who everyone thought would get in, and were Asian, didn’t.</p>
<p>I don’t even see why race should matter. They should base it off of socioeconomic strata, and how you do with what you’re given, not the color of your skin.</p>
<p>As an upcoming freshman to Penn, I would just like to say that I think anyone who Harvard or any other Ivy League universities accepts are qualified regardless of race. To ignore the backgrounds of students in my opinion would be disingenuous. Some students have better environments than others. </p>
<p>I think that’s fair- I’m sure even the people who get in via affirmative action are extremely qualified. the girl was still pretty smart. I know diversity’s important, and I’m sure a school like Harvard wouldn’t take anyone who they knew wouldn’t do well.</p>
<p>I won’t comment on SpeakerBoxer’s posts, nor do I intend to write any more on AA (my thoughts on it are neither here nor there), but I take issue with your statement. I think it’s all too easy to confuse ethnic pride and cultural pride, and while the two are not the same thing, it’s quite difficult to disentangle from each other. Ethnic categories are messy and imperfect, and have as much (or perhaps more) to do with history (including some periods that are not so wonderful and don’t say much about humans) than with biology or genetics. </p>
<p>Still, I’m technically a ‘minority’ in the US, and I have tremendous respect and admiration for the art, literature, history (at least the positive moments), intellectual and cultural innovations produced by historical and contemporary figures who are nominally of my ‘ethnic group’. And in a way, these things resonate with me…they’re most definitely not objectively greater than other achievements by members of other ethnicities…but I certainly feel ‘proud’ of these works/achievements vicariously. This is one of those more irrational and emotional aspects of being human, and as long as it doesn’t turn into the denigration of others, I feel it’s perfectly fine.</p>
<p>"To ignore the backgrounds of students in my opinion would be disingenuous. Some students have better environments than others. "</p>
<p>Exactly, so lets look at the student’s financial background. One of my friends, who is Asian, has to take a 40minute bus drive everyday to school and back. His parents both didn’t go to college, and its difficult for him to engage in a lot of ec’s because his parents are working 2-3 jobs. He has to take care of his younger siblings when he’s at home and does many chores to help his parents out.</p>
<p>^ These are the kids who should have the benefit of affirmative action. He was rejected at all ivies, and wait listed at about 2. I think he got into UCLA, but the financial aid might not of been good enough. He was really motivated because ivies give full rides if your income is below 60k. Its just really sad.</p>
<p>On this page, you need to click on the link titled: </p>
<p>SAT Mean Scores by Race/Ethnicity over 10 Years</p>
<p>The test was re-centered with a theoretical standard deviation of 100 points per each of the three subtests. I’ve heard that the standard deviation could be as high as 115 points per subtest.</p>
<p>Here’s some basic data for 2011 from the College Board:</p>
<p>For folks who understand a little bit about basic descriptive statistics, you understand what this means in terms of relative numbers of high-scoring individuals of various ethnicities.</p>
<p>Asian-American students who enrolled at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina in 2001 and 2002 scored 1457 out of 1600 on the math and reading portion of the SAT, compared to 1416 for whites, 1347 for Hispanics and 1275 for blacks, according to a 2011 study co-authored by Duke economist Peter Arcidiacono.</p>
<p>…I know that minorities are often lower in socioeconomic status and thus cannot afford SAT prep, lowering their scores. </p>
<p>It’s just something to think about, I guess.</p>
<p>I’ve seen the Carlin bit before. I’m generally an admirer of the late Carlin, but this is one of the few things in which we part company. BTW, I know a lot of students who complain about AA are Asian, and esp, high-achieving East Asian students. I’m curious if any of you are Asian?</p>