<p>It pains me to argue with people who clearly have no intentions of changing their stances, but for the reference of any future readers, I will continue on.</p>
<p>Top private schools look at what you do with what you’re given. Period.</p>
<p>Just because you know a person that you personally don’t believe shouldn’t have gotten in, and that person happens to be a minority student, does not mean that that is the only reason that they were able to get in. It might have been that way 10 or 15 years ago, but definitely not today. They may have done far more than you know to get that spot.</p>
<p>Stats are FAR FROM the end-all-be-all with these schools. The essay is pretty much the number one factor. I’ve read some God-awful essay from high-stat applicants who were clearly banking on stats alone to get them into the school. An admissions counselor once told me that if she sees a super high SAT score combined with super affected vocabulary in the essay, she immediately associates it with unwarranted pretentiousness and is put off by it.</p>
<p>If you sincerely believe that in this day and age, there are not enough qualified minority students to create reasonable diversity at the top schools, and that the only way that these schools can create diversity is by picking from the bottom of the barrel, then there is seriously something wrong with you.</p>
<p>I’m a low-achieving southern Asian. haha I acknowledge that my viewpoint is biased. However, I do think there are very valid arguments out there on both sides.</p>
<p>I know, pokm, it’s just when the area you live in has an average income of $245,631 and you know the people and opportunities they had personally, it’s kind of hard not to question. But I’ve always said and will always say that it’s fair to help those who weren’t given as much but did a fantastic job with what they had, and I’m sure all admitted applicants are very highly qualified.</p>
<p>I know that the private schools are very elite and erudite. It’s easy to think that they know what’s best. But I think that the amount of prestige they have and the reputation they have to maintain leads to a lot of politics, especially since many rankings internationally are based on diversity and, if said assistance did exist (which is debatable, of course, and all admits must have something special), it would enhance their perception.</p>
<p>If you are not an URM and not an ORM what are you exactly? You yourself know I am Nigerian, I have nothing to hide. We’re all friend here right? ;)</p>
<p>To answer you question thebioguy, colleges won’t accept individuals who cannot do the work. I think there are enough high achieving minorities that colleges like Harvard, Yale, and the other Ivy’s, like was said in the past do not have to lower their standards at all. That is my answer to that question. Let me ask you one since you never actually addressed this: Why should academic stats like the SAT and GPA be the main focus in college admissions? I do agree with one thing, socioeconomic factors should play a largeer role as well. </p>
<p>@bluenotebook2: Does it make a difference what race I am? You should know the answer to this as you said the exact same thing in # 50. If I were Asian or White? That doesn’t even make sense. There is still a possibility that I would be biased, only this time to another side of the argument. Bias is something that is natural, you yourself are most likely biased based on your dogmas, so lets get over the fact that I am black and move on. I got into Berkeley if that even amounts to a hill of beans, so I am arguing as someone who, Affirmative Action or no Affirmative Action, can see all sides of the argument and make my choice as to which I prefer. I would be arguing exactly the same if I were Asian or white. I am not one to switch, I know what I believe in and stick to it thank you very much. Check my other posts why don’t you? You’ll see my logic stays consistent throughout, even on topics not having to deal with AA. Did you get the short end of the stick bluenotebook2? I’m sorry to hear that if you did, really I am, but that gives you no right to belittle the achievements of others. Also leave out the anecdotal evidence, it does not count as fact…as we established above.</p>
<p>Before I give my opinion, I will let you all know I <em>am</em> Hispanic… (Puerto Rican)</p>
<p>I actually DON’T support A.A. I think A.A should be strictly socioeconomic… THOSE are the real people who have to overcome obstacles. </p>
<p>If you argue racism can be an obstacle, you may be right, but you know what’s really ironic? The only prejudice I’ve ever truly come across was BECAUSE of Affirmative Action, which is another reason I don’t support it… Whenever a URM is admitted to a top school now, many people instantly say ‘it’s because they’re a URM.’ Idk about you guys, but that’s not the type of response I want if I were to get into a top school…</p>
<p>Now; one thing I definitely don’t agree with is the fact that some of you seem to think that top colleges accept unqualified students (who are URM’s)…</p>
<p>I’m not naive; I know that URM’s can get in with lower stats than caucasians or asians, but to say that they’re ‘unqualified’? That, I do not agree with… Many top schools, every year, say 'more than blahblah percent of our applicants are qualified to do the work…" Do you really think that every single one of those kids they included in those statistics had a 2200+ SAT or were in the top 5%? No, I bet you many of them had <em>gasp</em> 2100’s or even lower… </p>
<p>Man I really disliked arguing or talking about Affirmative Action, everyone has their own opinions and it just gets too messy at times. I agree with pokm, but I guess thebioguy must be thinking exactly the same thing! :)</p>
<p>SpeakerBoxer, I realize that you’re rational, but I’ve never belittled anyone’s accomplishments. You can read through any of my former posts- heck, ones on this thread- and you’ll find that I’ve always said that anyone who got in deserved their acceptance.</p>
<p>I think you’re actually judging me based on your own perceptions of an Asian who’s upset about affirmative action. </p>
<p>I’m just questioning, is all. Questions are good- they keep what I’m sure is an already fantastic system in check.</p>
<p>I do find it really unfair that you said I’m “belittling” other people’s accomplishments, though. I would never do that, and the fact that you said that tells a lot about how much you’re paying attention to people’s actual arguments rather than just assuming.</p>
<p>I know there’s nothing I can do about it. Maybe there’s nothing that needs to be done. But you definitely have to question. You definitely have to speak your mind.</p>
<p>Yeah I agree with you LesleyCordero to some extent, I just hate the fact that this topic has to always be brought up. However, I love diversity as well. I think part of the college experience isn’t necessarily what you learn in class but rather what you learn from others. </p>
<p>Also, ethnic pride IS completely different from ethnic chauvinism.</p>
<p>I am really sorry bluenotebook2 if I came across that way. :o To tell you the truth I typed up that response before I even knew you were southeast asian. I take too long rereading what I write and I can’t refresh the page or else it would lose everything. So by the time i am done typing, a thousand more messages have already popped up. I’m just trying to keep up. Also I was basing that off of your last line the “I don’t think SpeakerBoxer would be arguing the same if he too pulled the short end of the stick.” But yes you are right, I was making an assumption that I shouldn’t have made. I just get feed up with discussions like these sometimes. Again, I am sorry about that.</p>
<p>I like that you consider both sides of the argument and that you do have these questions. There are things to take from both sides really. It is not as simple as we all, myself included, have been making it out to be.</p>
<p>Bio: what is your experience with admissions? </p>
<p>Diversity is often discussed on CC as a matter of skin color, features, ethnic heritage. That’s terribly limited and far too easy to swirl an argument around. It’s looking through the wrong end of the telescope so to speak. Tossing out that dreaded phrase, “racial preference.” What’s this tell us about people’s hyperfocus on race? You don’t think that they’d be just as happy to run thread after thread complaining about “socioeconomic preference?” “Oh, I know a poor girl who got in with 2050 and my moderate income friend with 2250 got denied” -??</p>
<p>haha thanks SpeakerBoxer, that makes me feel a ton better. No, it’s definitely not a simple issue! but that’s why it’s so important to tackle it (or to attempt to do so!)</p>
<p>“Bio: what is your experience with admissions?”</p>
<p>Not sure yet, I’m still a junior. But what I’ve seen, personally, with a limited sample size, is that 50% of the people top tier colleges accept are the actual people I believe colleges want. By that I mean, inherently nice, a good personality, smart and passionate. The other 50% just managed to sell themselves in their application and spent a good portion of their high school years doing everything they could to try to impress adcoms. And I guess it worked.</p>
<p>Ahhh thebioguy…you don’t give up and although we have opposing views, I respect that! :D. I’m gonna call it quits for tonight, it was nice having this argument/civilized discussion. Who knows, maybe by tomorrow your views might change…maybe…probably not. I guess we’ll see. LOL.</p>
It is not as simple as we all, myself included, have been making it out to be.</p>