<p>Isn't it unfair that a person has advantage over other applicants just because he is an african american?</p>
<p>i am not a racist. it is the college that is a racist making minorities feel inferior to the whites..</p>
<p>thats because in general blacks score way less thereby blacks arent going to get anywhere if affirmative action isn't established.</p>
<p>All the asian kids and white kids are going to take up all the seats for ivy leagues and other competitive colleges leaving the SUNY and CUNY for the blacks</p>
<p>well,, humans are all equal. and they all have the ability to do well if they try. and i have seen many african american students who do well in school. why should we give them more consideration for college admission?</p>
<p>^ in a perfect world, yes we would all be equal. But I have a hard time believing that you could substantiate the notion that in reality, everyone has equal opportunity. Comments like yours are ridiculous because IT'S NOT THE WAY THINGS ARE!</p>
<p>
[quote]
Will we stop blaming the socioeconomic classes, the adhd, the teachers, and the unfair SAT and just get over it?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>bsDBer2010: how about you try growing up in the inner city, then maybe you can try simply forgetting about all of these things. I hope that you realize that so many of the things you said in your response were ignorant. I think it's precisely because people (not saying you) have such ridiculous ideas like "how everyone is equal," "how black kids need to try harder," "how everyone should be on my level even if they make 100,000 less than me" that colleges want to have more diverse student bodies.</p>
<p>How about this idea: the certain ethnic groups who don't do as well on the SAT etc. can enroll in voluntary SAT prep classes that kids and adults like us do for "social causes" . The kids who take part in those (free) classes can avail the available help, those who dont have the determination to do so, simply get the score that they get. </p>
<p>And if AA can work for academics, why can't (and it should!) it work for athletics? The chinese did very well in the olympics, but the representation of Asians in collegiate and professional sports is so small.<br>
Share the thoughts?</p>
<p>^^So you think good SAT prep classes are a substitute for a solid education K-12?</p>
<p>exactly J'adoube</p>
<p>and a minority that scores 2100 might have been capable of scoring a 2300 if only he had gone to a better hs, could pay for a private tutor, etc.</p>
<p>(woooo 2250 hispanic) lol</p>
<p>"Will we stop blaming the socioeconomic classes, the adhd, the teachers, and the unfair SAT and just get over it?"
I had to laugh as I read this, because this is almost exactly the viewpoint a classmate of mine, who has lived in in an (upper) upper middle class neighborhood with the same people for his entire life, expressed in english the other day. It's also the same viewpoint I had only a few months ago.</p>
<p>I come from the same background as bizzyjudy; child of african immigrants, lived in inner city/ghetto area. My parents are incredibly hardworking and were able to, over several years, work their way up from minumum wage to what probably counts for upper middle class status, so I've seen all sides of the spectrum. So I can say that it is absolutely about how much money you have and the mindset you come from.
Money: It's all about access. I now live in a middle class suburb of growing families in Texas, with plenty of PTA moms and a school district with a vested interest in producing large numbers of National Merit Semifinalists, etc.- so I was able to take a $180 course, which the district paid part of the fee for. I can wholeheartedly credit this course for my SAT score, which is good by any races standards. But before I took the class, my score was just above average. How many kids out there are like me- kids with potential, but kids who's districts don't help pay for prep courses? Of course, the districts that don't put as much effort into turning out NMSFs, etc. are usually the schools with more students who probably can't afford an $800 TestMasters course.
Mindset: this is also fairly obvious. I'm not going to recap on what bizzyjudy stated, but there is a reason why almost all immigrant groups do better than our more americanized counterparts. The parents are more driven- you have to be, to come to a new country and start completely over just for the chance at a better future- and that rubs off on their children. For a child who doesn't come from this background to achieve the same level of success is a completely different thing. It's not really about race anymore. Colleges know this- that's why the best schools view your experiences holistically.</p>
<p>Schools need diversity. I could tell you a dozen stories related to race that probably wouldn't have happened if I wasn't the only African American in those classes, and an obvious target.</p>
<p>@eatingfood- a 2230 is good by anyone's standards. Isn't that in the top 1%? But if you aren't completely satisfied, you should retake it. Don't settle if you don't have to.</p>
<p>@boxbrown- I know so few asians who even care about sports. we would probably see an uptick if more people tried out, for one thing.</p>
<p>Problem is, black/hispanic people aren't the only ones who can be underprivileged, which makes AA just another form of racial profiling.</p>
<p>"in 2005 Asian-Americans were admitted to the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, at a much lower rate (54 percent) than black applicants (71 percent) and Hispanic applicants (79 percent) — despite median SAT scores that were 140 points higher than Hispanics and 240 points higher than blacks."</p>
<p>Haha good job eating food - In the eyes of adcoms, you are the same (according to this thread) as a white person with a 2420! Haha - just teasing.</p>
<p>I think a lot of people forget the importance of diversity in school. I grew up in a diverse town and my three best friends are an amalgam of black, white, and asian, and latino (our parents are all immigrants and half of us are too). I think people who haven't been exposed to people of different races don't recognize the importance of diversity.</p>
<p>The main idea of college is to be exposed to new people and ideas. You simply can't do that in a school that is not diverse, whether its predominantly black or white school. If you went to yale and all of your peers were from Vietnamese Americans, for example, you wouldn't be exposed to much more than you were at home. It makes sense to me that they're trying to advocate some diversity in their schools, even if that amounts to only a few African Americans and Latinos (Whites and Asians are usually well represented in college).</p>
<p>Before my philosophy class I was completely against racism but my professor, who was white, made a strong case for it. She compared not having any AA to pitting a boxer who has trained for years against someone who was starving and is now slowly recovering. Though slavery ended a long time ago, racism and complete bias against minority's ended only 40 years ago. It may not be fair but that's life. If a school wanted you that bad they would accept you, regardless of your race.</p>
<p>I have a 2160 and decent grades but I doubt that I'll get into an insanely good school because of my race.</p>
<p>MODERATOR'S NOTE: </p>
<p>There has been a lot of discussion among various participants on CC and various members of the volunteer moderation team over the years about what is the appropriate balance to strike in moderating threads about the ever-contentious issue of affirmative action policies in college admission. As I see this thread turning into yet-another discussion of affirmative action, I'll note that the forum ownership's view is that that is a very legitimate topic for discussion on College Confidential, but not on threads all over on multiple forums where that issue is not complete on-topic. See here I'll post a link to a recent College Board validation study of the SAT, </p>
<p>to keep this particular thread on-topic for this SAT and ACT Tests & Test Preparation Forum. </p>
<p>I'll mention that there is a thread specifically on the broader context of affirmative action policies at colleges found on the College Admissions Forum </p>
<p>to which you are all invited. Anyone who wishes to discuss these contentious issues politely, informatively, and according to the College Confidential Terms of Service </p>
<p>is welcome to join the discussion there.</p>
<p>The same arguments still work when applied to testing. Money means access to courses, and certain backgrounds have more of an expectation of success- which automatically includes SATs and ACTs. What I'd like to know is if anyone has heard of some real solutions to this issue.</p>
<p>I wish "Egyptian" were considered "African American", 'cause I'd have a 2440! (Egypt IS in Africa, you know...)</p>
<p>^Haha...Lol....</p>
<p>You do not take a man who for years has been hobbled by chains, liberate him, bring him to the starting line of a race, saying, 'you are free to compete with all the others,' and still justly believe you have been completely fair . . </p>
<p>The above was stated by President L.B. Johnson. It is important to remember several things when criticizing AA
1) The students are in no way the focus of the program. It is the university that is trying to bolster its diversity and collect a cross section of high school students in its freshmen class. Indeed, though more "white kids" may get into Harvard if AA stops, it is possible that fewer would matriculate because they would realize that they would miss out on the cultural education enhanced by having a diverse class. And the students who wouldn't leave are very likely the kids who wouldn't have gotten in to Harvard in the first place.
2) Several aspects of racism still inherent in America's cultural and educational system are very likely what causes the disparity in test scores. As long as this disparity exists, it is impossible to argue that every applicant starts on an "even playing field", and therefore, AA presents itself as necessary.
3) It is indeed constitutional. The supreme court has already ruled so in Regents of the University of California vs. Bakke. This case stated that using quotas for racial classifications in admissions decisions was unconstitutional, but that considering racial status in admissions decisions to bolster a diverse class would be in the best interest of the state(public school) and therefore permissible. So it IS CONSTITUTIONAL.</p>
<p>The AA process, I agree, is not perfect. I would advise those who complain about it to, instead, spend their time improving their own chances.
I think it is important to note tat I am a white applicant. I would most likely be hurt by these policies. But I also realize that they are what's best for the country, and that is why I support them. I am not racist, but I live in a prejudiced area (south Louisiana) and I can easily see that it is in no way an "equal opportunity process, just as it isn't an "equal opportunity life".
Johnson also said, "As affirmative action goes, so does the fate of the U.S."
I implore you to continue to try to bring an end to AA.
But to do it in the RIGHT way. NOT by complaining, but by making it unnecessary via working to bring racial equality to your part of the world. Peace</p>
<p>This discussion has gone off the topic of this forum (preparing for college admission tests) but brings up some interesting issues, so I'll close it now with an invitation to all of you to join the ongoing discussion where all these issues are on-topic. </p>