<p>if african americans get above a 2100 does that mean that they can get accepted into an ivy league college?</p>
<p>an african american scoring 2100 is like a white kid scoring 2300. in neither case is the student guaranteed acceptance to Ivies</p>
<p>Wow that's so racist.
lol
It not nature that determines score, it's nurture.</p>
<p>^ college adcoms view an african american with a 2100 in the same light as a white person with a 2300. i have read this many times and there is nothing racist about saying it.</p>
<p>^Uhh, hells yeah there is. I really refuse to believe someone is going to score less on a test because of the color of their skin..
Affirmative Action is a bunch of bull.</p>
<p>lol every school loves to brag about being diverse...</p>
<p>They might be diverse. but I doubt the %age is the same for each racial group :P</p>
<p>African American percentiles are really crappy, so I understand why a 2100 for an African American is the same as a white or asian 2300.</p>
<p>The correct statement is already above that the level of scores indicated might get an applicant in, but it is not a guarantee. </p>
<p>More detail about admission factors can be found at </p>
<p>I personally think that a minority with a 2100, 3.6, and good other stuff will get into a top college way easier than a white kid with a 2300 and 4.0. I have seen countless kids from my school get into colleges that they would have had zero shot at had they not been a minority.</p>
<p>Why aren't asians considered a URM?</p>
<p>By definition. They are minority but not underrepresented.</p>
<p>There is a difference in SAT scores by race. Collegeboard web site, 2008 data</p>
<p>528 = Mean SAT Critical Reading score for White
430 = Mean SAT Critical Reading score for Black</p>
<p>537 = Mean SAT math score for White
426 = Mean SAT math score for Black</p>
<p>Asians live up to their status quo!
highest Math score :3</p>
<p>Affirmative Action is so UNConstitutional...worst thing that this country has brought upon to the world of education. Instead of being equal and fair, it's being bias and unfair.</p>
<p>Hey, shiomi and Quicksandsilver. You're being a little unfair. I kind of understand your frustration. At first, I used to be against Affirmative Action because I thought it undermined the ability of blacks to work well. I was born in Nigeria and Nigerians are very competitive academically. I came to America when I was four. I lived mostly a sheltered life even though I attended an inner city school and lived in a notoriously infamous city (I still do). As I matured, I noticed that the blacks whose families have been in America since the slave trade have a completely different mindset. They did not understand my drive and why I did so well. One kid was even happy for a moment that a "real African American" was number one in the class until she found out that I was actually from Nigeria and thus an "immigrant".</p>
<p>Slowly my idea about Affirmative Action changed. Affirmative Action (AA) is more than just "the color of one's skin" but a lot of other elements. While I still do believe that AA undermines blacks, I know that it is necessary. AA is not perfect, I agree, but before you or any anti-AA people vehemently disagree about the policy using skin color as your reasoning, you must ask yourself "How much does AA effect (affect?) me?" There will always be others with superior credentials that will get denied a top college with or without AA. In general, until you live in an inner-city school with the population more than 90% black and a daunting mindset that refuses to be uplifted, I prefer that you not make such a polarizing comment. In those inner-city schools, there are a handful of kids who do try to break the mold of negativity. Some of them are not as fortunate as me because the majority do not have family that strongly supports them in education - not because their parents are drug addicts or alcoholics; mostly, it is because their family needs them to support in paying the bills, looking after siblings, etc.</p>
<p>My city is tough. Trust me. But I love it (and hate it, too. hehe.) I can easily say that African Americans are lazy; at one point I was even embarrassed that the term "African" was even associated with them (as I am African). But that was bigoted of me and a result of my very sheltered life due to my overprotective and over competitive Nigerian parents.</p>
<p>Hey, my SAT scores aren't brilliant. They are just below 2100. I do not blame it on "my skin color" but rather more on monetary issues; I just don't have the resources.</p>
<p>Ideally, I wish that AA would be more socioeconomically based, but as long as racism exists (and yes, it exists, unfortunately; in every away volleyball or basketball game I attend in which I had to face predominately white schools, or academic summer camps where there are mostly whites and asians and like 2 blacks - lol - or etc.). But I find that exposure and education is the best way to dispel racism, and reverse racism.</p>
<p>And for the rich blacks...lucky is all I can say but their benefits from AA are not completely unfair. They face adversity on a different level that connects them with the poor blacks that upper or middle class whites (or even poor whites) may never understand. I mean, they'll find that they will be the only black family in their suburban township or one of just five blacks in their affluent private school. They will most likely be haunted by the negative connotation that being "black" comes with. Just look at the synonyms for "black". They're quite discouraging. It's all in the mindset and perception, I believe. Nothing biological and certainly nothing as ambiguous as the most immutable characteristic there ever was - skin color. </p>
<p>I also recognize that there are individuals who experience the same adversity across all races...but like I said, AA is not perfect, and until someone finds something better "and" practical, I will support it (and not for the wrong reasons).</p>
<p>I hope I didn't confuse anyone, nor did I mean to antagonize you, shiomi, Quicksandslowly, or anyone for the matter.</p>
<p>And yeah, I also find it annoying when people support AA without understanding the complexities of it as well. So it goes both ways.</p>
<p>Just my $0.02.</p>
<p>*Slavery was also unconstitutional, but it took over many years for it to end; don't expect AA to disappear so quickly.</p>
<p>@bizzyjudy: wow that was a very well written response, and it shows that you are just as capable, if not more so, than many posters on this forum.</p>
<p>However, I do think that there is a factor of "negative" racism coming in. I mean, think about Obama's campaign - in my apush class, we were talking about how hard it would be to make political cartoons or parodies of him if elected president for fear of appearing racist. The joke "For once the rich, white man is in charge" is sometimes the case.</p>
<p>And also, while Asians may not be underrepresented in colleges, we still receive racism. One of my friends is probably going to be saludictorian of my class (another one of my friends and I are taking one more Ap course, which is the only type of course that is weighted in my school, and all three of us have 4.0s in every class). However, when he was talking to one of our librarians about a comprehensive research project he was proposing to the school, the librarian told him that "if I'm talking too quickly for you, let me know and I'll slow down. It's not your fault that you don't speak English."</p>
<p>Quite frankly, I used to be in favor of affirmative action because I thought it gave underrepresented minorities the extra "activation energy" of sorts to get their family lines going. But now, I am very much against it. A precollege program I participate in has an outreach program soley for inner-city "African American and Latino" students. They pay no tuition. Yet, they vandalize the school's property, and the parents (even more than the students) are incredibly rude - I won't get into to many details here, but generally the parents speak profanely and don't practice decent manners.</p>
<p>I understand that adversity can change people and make them angry/bitter/etc. I also understand that black has many negative connotations, but what ever happened to black is beautiful? The new black? Sleek and sexy for that matter. What is yellow and good? T.S. Elliot in "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock" describes the dank, disgusting city as overcome with a "yellow fog" and a "yellow haze." Oh, and there's yellow fever. I think I've made my point.</p>
<p>College should be a place to select a class based on ability, whether it is academic, athletic, social, and so forth. I do not believe that we should be picking the "best of the black people" or the "best of the white people." If the college finds a good addition to its class who HAPPENS to be of a certain race, so be it. I do not think race should be a positive or a negative factor in one's application.</p>
<p>I do remember one girl who wrote a fantastic essay on her race. She was "Latina," as she put it, and she wrote about her peers' beliefs about affirmative action. She was very angry that her friends assumed that she could get into any school she wanted soley for being Hispanic. She wrote about how this was not the case, and that she worked extremely hard (as demonstrated by her stats and ecs) to be an ideal candidate for her first choice school (as well as a good citizen and happy person, I'm sure/would hope). Would she have been accepted had she been any other race? I do believe so.</p>
<p>Now we have some people even on CC who say a 2100 "for a Black person" is great. What is that supposed to mean? Are Black people incapable of getting a decent score the SAT because it asked a question about a regatta? I've never been to one, never known people who race boats...heck I've never been to a dock in my life, and I still would have gotten that question correct. Will we stop blaming the socioeconomic classes, the adhd, the teachers, and the unfair SAT and just get over it?</p>
<p>Anyway my rant on affirmative action...sorry if there are any holes in my logic. I would go on, but I have to write more summaries of Caesar...so if there are flaws, just point them out and I'll see if I can add anything.</p>
<p>*also if you are justifying affirmative action by saying it's only fair after the centuries of slavery, aren't you merely propogating what you believe to be a negative thing based on another negative thing? More simply, 2 wrongs make a right? Are you conversely saying that affirmative action, which you believe is a good thing, is as evil as slavery?</p>
<p>Bizzyjudy, very well stated!</p>
<p>My daughter is a white college freshman who has volunteered to tutor in class at an inner city school for "bad" smart kids who are African American and Latino. She is one of four white kids participating in the program as tutors. The tutors were instructed at length on what not to do when tutoring in a classroom--a list of rules developed by the hs students: if you're white don't think you're better than us, don't treat us like we're stupid, don't think you're here to save us, etc. The first time she took the bus there (alone) she asked the driver if she would please let her know where her intersection was. The driver came to the intersection and said, while shaking her head wide-eyed, "this is Central and Main" in an incredulous tone. Off my girl got and onward she went to class to meet the teacher and class with more than a bit of trepidation, but determined to not act scared and to "just be herself". In a class of 20, 6 were present. The teacher told her this was normal--many were absent today because they were, in some way, affected by the recent death-by-gsw of a student. Every other day has another compelling story. </p>
<p>She worked with two Latino guys who were cooperative and "nice". She had a conversation with them about where she was from and they were pretty puzzled about where she would live if she was from out of state and didn't have "another family" that was local. They did not seem to be familiar with the dormitory concept at all. A black student came into the class at one point and teased the teacher a bit about what each student in the class was doing "...she's on her cell phone, he's chillin' over by the window, those tow are working with whitey there..." A girl in the class immediately and repeatedly remonstrated the commenter for the whitey comment.</p>
<p>It just seems right to me that kids like this, who manage to graduate with a respectable gpa and get an SAT somewhere in the range expected at the school to which they apply and otherwise show promise--whether it's because of community involvement or athletics or even, given the circumstances, perfect attendance--deserve a chance to keep striving for excellence if they have the wherewithall to put together an application. Even if their version of excellence doesn't seem terribly comparable, on paper, to the excellence of non-URM's. I also think that the sorts of challenges that these kids face don't always come coupled with skin color and they're challenges that should be considered regardless of race, and at least to some extent I think colleges try to do that. </p>
<p>If, in considering the whole picture, some kids with higher SAT scores who are, unquestionably, exemplary students get turned down at some of those same schools, first of all they will have other opportunities and secondly, they need to recognize that there are qualities in people that can contribute to operational excellence in academics and in life that are not necessarily reflected in ones stats. And, no, the system's not perfect.</p>
<p>i heart aa</p>
<p>i got a 2230!</p>
<p>and i'm blacky!... I will say that I would have definitely retaken that if i weren't black though.</p>