After HYPS, then what??

College Search & Selection
21

<p>Engineering: MIT-Berkeley-Stanford-Caltech</p>

<p>Hard Sciences (inc. Math): MIT-Caltech-Berkeley-Princeton-Harvard-Stanford-Chicago</p>

<p>Biological Sciences: Harvard-MIT-Berkeley-Stanford-UCSD</p>

<p>Social Sciences: Berkeley-Harvard-Chicago-Stanford-Michigan-Wisconsin</p>

<p>Humanities : Harvard-Berkeley-Princeton-Columbia-Cornell</p>

<h1>of entity: school</h1>

<p>5: Berkeley
4: Harvard, Stanford
3: MIT,
2: Caltech, Princeton, Chicago
1. Columbia, Cornell, Michigan, Wisconsin, UCSD</p>

22

<p>"*Eh..? so you like to know the best schools with combined undergrad and grad ?</p>

<p>Well then?. Here is the list:</p>

<p>WCU:
1) Harvard-Berkeley-Stanford-MIT</p>

<p>2) Caltech-Yale-Princeton-Chicago-Columbia
3) UPenn-Cornell-UMich-Duke-JHU-UVa
4) Other Fine Schools*"</p>

<p>Honestly, I don't think Princeton is up there with Caltech-Yale-Chicago and Columbia. It's a great school but it's not very prestigious outside of the US (undergrad and grad combined). I think people would trust NYU and Cornell more than they would trust Princeton because of NYU's great business, law and medical schools and Cornell's great grad programs in many fields including engineering and business. What can Princeton offer to international students other than its excellent undergrad education?? </p>

<p>Take note: reputation of a school lies more in the grad programs because international students are more interested to study for Masters, MBAs and PhDs.</p>

<p>And YES, Harvard, Berkeley, Stanford and MIT are neck and neck in academic prestige. It would be very hard to say which among them is number one. You can argue it's Harvard but Harvard suffers prestige in engineering and IT fields. Berkeley and Stanford are the real rivals when it comes to having a wider selection of programs. And even US News, a biased ranking body to privates, can attest that the two are neck and neck in almost all major fields. Well, this is just me sharing what I know as one of the representatives of Southeast Asia.</p>

23

<p>Well, we all know Princeton does not have professional schools (law, bus, med). However, I would think Princeton?s graduate programs in math, physics, economics and woody woo?s IR/P. Policy are well respected. Further, their graduate programs in humanites should not be too shabby as evidenced by the NRC ranking.</p>

<p>Yeah, in general Princeton?s grad is not super-respected as its undergrad. Nonetheless, considering ugrad +grad, I would say its being in the second tier with Caltech-Yale-Chicago-Columbia is warranted.</p>

24

<p>That is a useless grouping to arrive at anything meaningful. In general, people respect NYU more than Princeton because of their great business school? It's not even a top 15 MBA program in the U.S. You have to go to a school that is right for you in your specific discipline. Having concern for how other programs are viewed in other countries is a waste of time to me. Or, at least, caring enough to continuously harp on it and write long threads about it is.</p>

25

<p>Why did you say the grouping is ?useless?? Who are you to judge the 5 groupings is useful or not? Do you really think you know so much better than the NRC committee members who categorized various disciplines into five groups? </p>

<p>I will tell you what to do, gellino. Google NRC, find the report and read it for yourself why the NRC committee members grouped various majors into five!!! Remember there is a whole world out there beyond your little cubicle.</p>

26

<p>"Engineering: MIT-Berkeley-Stanford-Caltech</p>

<p>Hard Sciences (inc. Math): MIT-Caltech-Berkeley-Princeton-Harvard-Stanford-Chicago</p>

<p>Biological Sciences: Harvard-MIT-Berkeley-Stanford-UCSD</p>

<p>Social Sciences: Berkeley-Harvard-Chicago-Stanford-Michigan-Wisconsin</p>

<p>Humanities : Harvard-Berkeley-Princeton-Columbia-Cornell</p>

<h1>of entity: school</h1>

<p>5: Berkeley
4: Harvard, Stanford
3: MIT,
2: Caltech, Princeton, Chicago
1. Columbia, Cornell, Michigan, Wisconsin, UCSD "</p>

<p>BINGO!!!!!!!
i'm going to say it again...some people here take the "USNEWS ranking" too serious...this rank is biased towards Endowment, size , trype of institution(private) and entrance difficulty ...
SOMEBODY PLEASE EXPLAIN ME:
Washington University in St. Louis 12 ??
18. Vanderbilt University(TN)<br>
18. Emory University(GA)
20 University of Notre Dame
Strange?/ I tell you why they are top 20:MONEY, SIZE , SELECTIVITY...</p>

<p>Those are very good schools but not top 20 i'm sorry!!!</p>

27

<p>
[quote]
Honestly, I don't think Princeton is up there with Caltech-Yale-Chicago and Columbia. It's a great school but it's not very prestigious outside of the US (undergrad and grad combined).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And this is based on what? Complete and utter hearsay? ummm, Gingerale is the best soft drink ever made. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I think people would trust NYU and Cornell more than they would trust Princeton because of NYU's great business, law and medical schools and Cornell's great grad programs in many fields including engineering and business.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>People "trust" NYU / Cornell more than they "trust" Princeton? Could you expand on this "trust" a little more? Wait, are you saying that more people are willing to have NYU babysit their toddlers? Oh, and, this "trust" is based on NYU's great business, law and medical schools? I guess you just admitted that Harvard, Stanford, UPenn and Columbia are slamdunk better schools than Cal based on that measure since none of Cal's major professional grad schools (law, med, business) are better than any of the professional grad schools of those institutions... Oh wait, do you want to take that statement back? What's that I hear, backpeddling? </p>

<p>
[quote]
What can Princeton offer to international students other than its excellent undergrad education??

[/quote]
</p>

<p>First, why exactly are international students the primary focus here? Why are we judging US universities / colleges by what they "can offer to international students"? Why are international students the ultimate judges by which we measure US universities / colleges? What's that? Because YOU happen to be an international student? I guess every US university and college should re-write their mission statements so that they can properly address and fit your needs. I'm quite certain that after reading this thread they will get right on that.</p>

<p>Oh, and to answer your question, "what DOES Princeton offer to international students?" A world-class education second-to-none. World-class faculty second-to-none. World-class student body second-to-none. World-class facilities second-to-none. World-class reputation second-to-none. World-class resources second-to-none. etc...</p>

<p>BTW, pop quiz, which school has been ranked no. 1 by USNWR for the last 7 years ('07, '06, '05, '04, '03, '02, '01), ranked no. 1 again in ('99 and '98) and no. 2 from ('97, '96, '95, '94, '93) - basically ranking no. 1 or no. 2 every year in the last decade except for one year (ranked no. 4 in 2000). Answer? Princeton - a school that according to Vangie "isn't up there with Caltech-Yale-Chicago and Columbia". Conversely, Cal has failed to break the USNWR Top 20 every year since 1996. You do the math.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Take note: reputation of a school lies more in the grad programs because international students are more interested to study for Masters, MBAs and PhDs.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Take note: In case you haven't been beaten over the head by Vangie (er MABUHAY, er Vangie) here are some wonderful self proclaimed "truths" (let's call them Vangie-isms):
- international students are the be-all-and-end-all raison d'etre of American universities
- international students are more interested in Cal than any other school in the world
- international students are all represented by Vangie.</p>

<p>
[quote]
And YES, Harvard, Berkeley, Stanford and MIT are neck and neck in academic prestige. It would be very hard to say which among them is number one. You can argue it's Harvard but Harvard suffers prestige in engineering and IT fields.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, Harvard is licking its wounds. Students, faculty, academia are leaving this academic wasteland in droves. Oh wait that doesn't really matter right? Let me re-phrase, INTERNATIONAL students, faculty are leaving Harvard in droves... right? :) </p>

<p>
[quote]
Berkeley and Stanford are the real rivals when it comes to having a wider selection of programs. And even US News, a biased ranking body to privates, can attest that the two are neck and neck in almost all major fields. Well, this is just me sharing what I know as one of the representatives of Southeast Asia.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Wait, you are one of the reprentatives of Southeast Asia? You are only a representative of Southeast Asia? I thought you represented international students worldwide?</p>

<p>(btw, in case people were wondering what happened to MABUHAY - seems he may have morphed into his identical posting twin, Vangie):
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=253772%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=253772&lt;/a>
hmmm... both claim not to have any official association with Cal yet both are diehard Cal fanatics, and both are from the Philippines...<br>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=270208%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=270208&lt;/a>
you make the call folks...</p>

28

<p>"Yes, Harvard is licking its wounds. Students, faculty, academia are leaving this academic wasteland in droves. Oh wait that doesn't really matter right? Let me re-phrase, INTERNATIONAL students, faculty are leaving Harvard in droves... righ"
you concluded that based on what??</p>

29

<p>the prestige says it all. </p>

<p>what are you guys smoking? do you even know what youre talking about? </p>

<p>and um princeton may have FEW grad schools but the QUALITY of them far far surpasses NYU's grad schools </p>

<p>princeton is internationally renowned, so i dont think you are correct in saying that its not recognized internatioanlly </p>

<p>i chose princeton over harvard and yale for a reason</p>

30

<p>pateta,

[quote]
You can argue it's Harvard but Harvard suffers prestige in engineering and IT fields.

[/quote]

suffers. that's a pretty strong word.</p>

31

<p>Rabban, I wasn't saying NRC groupings were wrong, although if I'm interested in getting a PhD in Economics I don't care what are regarded as the best grad programs in History. I was saying your grouping searching for the cumulative effect of which schools were on the most lists was useless unless you are planning to get an advanced degree in social sciences, humanities, engineering, hard sciences and biological sciences.</p>

32

<p>"People "trust" NYU / Cornell more than they "trust" Princeton? Could you expand on this "trust" a little more? Wait, are you saying that more people are willing to have NYU babysit their toddlers? Oh, and, this "trust" is based on NYU's great business, law and medical schools? I guess you just admitted that Harvard, Stanford, UPenn and Columbia are slamdunk better schools than Cal based on that measure since none of Cal's major professional grad schools (law, med, business) are better than any of the professional grad schools of those institutions... Oh wait, do you want to take that statement back? What's that I hear, backpeddling?"</p>

<p>This is really a highly debatable topic because "prestige" is relative. What I mean by that? What's prestigious in the East Coast may not exactly be seen the same way in the West Coast. Example, USC is not "USC" anymore in Ohio or in Alabama, but I?m sure Californians, specifically, those LA residents, would think it is THE University of Southern California. The same way that schools which are seen prestigious in the US may not necessarily be accepted the same way in other countries. For example, Rice U is prestigious in the US but UT Austin is more well-regarded outside on the US. You may argue with the people in Macau that Rice is more prestigious in the US but the Macau people have heard little about Rice and have heard great things about the University of Texas, so even if you kill them, you cannot sway their belief to match with yours.</p>

<p>I once said that school?s prestige lies heavily on the strength of the graduate programs IF the opinions of the people outside the US would count. (It would probably be a different story if it doesn?t.) Why is that so? The answer is very simple: because most international students apply to gad school. If I?m looking forward to get an MBA, schools like HBS, Wharton, Stanford, Haas, Sloan, LBS, INSEAD, Said, Kellogg, Chicago, Stern, Tuck, Ross, Columbia, Darden, Andersen and Cornell come to mind. If I?m looking forward to get a PhD in Chemical Engineering, Berkeley, MIT, Caltech and Stanford come to mind. In Law, Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Berkeley-Boalt, Stanford, NYU and Michigan. In Medicine, Harvard, John?s Hopkins, UCLA and UC SF. </p>

<p>Another example, in England the University o Warwick is quite well known and regarded as the best alternative to Oxbridge. But no body has heard of Warwick outside the UK. Now, should we fight just because Warwick is not well-known in other countries???</p>

<p>As for Princeton, it sure is a great school for undergrad but I don?t think people outside of the US would think it is very prestigious since it is not that well known. Imagine how would an law student enthusiast think it?s prestigious when it does not have a law school. </p>

<p>?why exactly are international students the primary focus here? Why are we judging US universities / colleges by what they "can offer to international students"? Why are international students the ultimate judges by which we measure US universities / colleges??</p>

<p>The thread starter was asking so I answered him what I know. Should my answer matter? I don?t know. But I told him what I know. </p>

<p>Oh, and to answer your question, "what DOES Princeton offer to international students?" A world-class education second-to-none. World-class faculty second-to-none. World-class student body second-to-none. World-class facilities second-to-none. World-class reputation second-to-none. World-class resources second-to-none. etc.?</p>

<p>Second to none IF the international student is interested in the undergrad level. But notice that the OP said ?undergrad and grad combined?. Does Princeton offer a law degree that is considered ?second to none?? No. So that?s a minus there. Does Princeton offer MBA? No! Another minus for Princeton. What about Electrical Engineering? No! Another Minus. Medicine? No! Another minus. </p>

<p>In the UK, Imperial College is a powerhouse in Engineering. But is it seen as prestigious as Oxford/Cambridge? No! But do they have the same academic standard. Yes! Should the British be angry with you because you don?t think Imperial is very prestigious? NO! Now, why are you mad at me? Hahahaha?. loL??.</p>

33

<p>“That is a useless grouping to arrive at anything meaningful. In general, people respect NYU more than Princeton because of their great business school? It's not even a top 15 MBA program in the U.S. You have to go to a school that is right for you in your specific discipline. Having concern for how other programs are viewed in other countries is a waste of time to me. Or, at least, caring enough to continuously harp on it and write long threads about it is.”</p>

<p>Stern is a top 15 business school. If you don’t seem to agree, then kindly enumerate what are the top 15 business schools for you.</p>

34

<p>o yea, stern is definitely top 15.</p>

<p>WC professional buz schools </p>

<p>The usual suspect " Big 7 " or Big 8, depends on how you "group" them</p>

<p>1) HBS-Wharton-Stanford-Kellogg-Columbia-Sloan-Chicago-Haas</p>

<p>& equally prestigious</p>

<p>2) Ross-Stern-Tuck-Anderson-Duke-UVA-Yale</p>

35

<p>haha. I love these threads. great way to procrastinate on h/w</p>

<p>Ok my "tiers:
1. Cream of the crop: Yale/Harvard/Princeton/Stanford/MIT/Caltech
2. Pretty darn smart awesome schools: Brown/Duke/Chicago/Columbia/Penn
3. smart people schools: JHU/WUSTL/Northwestern/Cornell/Berkeley/UVA etc. etc.</p>

36

<p>"pateta,</p>

<p>Quote:
You can argue it's Harvard but Harvard suffers prestige in engineering and IT fields. </p>

<p>suffers. that's a pretty strong word."
1:A person who is REALLY interested in eng or/and IT will not choose Harvard .....Every decent student know what are the the good schools for most majors..
2: You have not answered my question.</p>

37

<p>While I am at it, here is WC law school list</p>

<p>this is almost rigid because of the "Trinity"</p>

<p>1) The Trinity: Yale-Harvard-Stanford</p>

<p>& equally great law schools, but generally considered a little behind the Trinity</p>

<pre><code> 2) Columbia-Boalt-NYU-Chicago-UPenn-UVA-UMich
</code></pre>

38

<p>2) Ross-Stern-Tuck-Anderson-Duke-UVA-Yale</p>

<p>Yeah, I missed Duke; it must have a strong MBA program... Fuqua is Duke's b-school right? I'm sorry, it was not intentional.</p>

39

<p>MBA schools better than NYU: Stanford, HBS, Wharton, Kellogg, Columbia, Tuck, MIT, UChicago, UMichigan, UVA, Duke, UCLA, Berkeley, Yale, Cornell. </p>

<p>From the people I've known, all the ones going to Cal/Berkeley were rejected at Kellogg, Tuck, UVA.</p>

40

<p>***this is almost rigid because of the "Trinity"</p>

<p>1) The Trinity: Yale-Harvard-Stanford***</p>

<p>Really Rabban? I honestly do not have any idea that Stanford's Law School was a little bit more prestigious than Berkeley's Boalt. But then again, I could be wrong. Maybe stanford has a stronger LLB program but Boalt has for Masters of Law. Do we have a way to check this?</p>