<p>There was an article among the myriad I read on the case, that interviewed the woman in UVA’s rape crisis/womens center who said they specifically do not ask rape victims who did it, because doing so puts the victims in a bad place mentally. They wait for the victim to come forward with the info. I assume this is a professional manner of rape counseling, perhaps also utilized by Dean Eramo. But I am speculating here. </p>
<p>I think poetgrl had an important point. Leave out the whole shaming thing. Woman who have been raped are afraid of putting themselves at risk for another assault. This seems a reasonable fear under the circumstances. Colleges have clearly had more interest in keeping these women quiet than protecting them. Reporting hurts the college. Of course, I’d argue not reporting hurts the college more in the long run. This is all about to blow up and colleges are not going to look good.</p>
<p>adding: I want to emphatically agree with JHS about Duke but not derail the thread.</p>
<p>“A bad place mentally”. Yes I do understand, but the counselors need to remind the women that they have a responsibility to other women who could be raped by the perpetrators in the future. And not just to go to the university. Universities are just not equipped to investigate crimes. They need to go to the police. Police have warrants, subpoenas, crime labs, and they are bound by due process requirements that assure that the accused are treated fairly within the law. Let the police handle it.</p>
<p>And if a student is indicted or confesses, then by all means, he should be expelled.</p>
<p>I have great difficulty with the idea of telling a person who has just been a victim of violence that she has a responsibility to anyone but herself. On the other hand, if mandatory reporting existed - it is out of her hands. The crime is reported. Unless she hides it entirely.</p>
<p>It is interesting how the headlines of some of these articles would make you think the RS writer did something wrong by not searching out and interviewing the alleged perpetrators. A more close read however shows that journalism experts agree that she didn’t need to. The example given by one of them is that if a writer does a story about someone getting mugged they don’t withhold the story until they can search out the mugger. They might not even interview the mugger if they knew who it was. </p>
<p>In this case Jackie told the writer that she could not track them down.</p>
<p>Also, the WP link is to an opinion piece isn’t it? not an actual story? I never trust opinion pieces because they are almost always biased. </p>
<p>What they don’t do however is add a bunch of stuff about the alleged mugging that may or may not be true and is unverifiable and unattributed. </p>
<p>This was not a crime blotter type story in which immediacy of reporting is key. This was (supposedly) an investigative piece in which only Jackie was interviewed (and one roommate who had no knowledge of the facts of the alleged crime). </p>
<p>9 people were accused in this article of the grossest of crimes. Only 21 men lived in this fraternity house at the time alleged. Jackie wants to hide and remain anonymous but these young men have been outed on various websites. Is it right to not report a crime to the police, but put it out anonymously in a national rag, accusing people without giving them a chance to respond? Accusing them two years after the fact? This doesn’t seem right to me.</p>
<p>@marie1234 wrote: “What they don’t do however is add a bunch of stuff about the alleged mugging that may or may not be true and is unverifiable and unattributed.”</p>
<p>ummm…yes they do. Every day. </p>
<p>“a woman says she was hit over the head and her purse snatched friday while walking to her car after Christmas shopping”</p>
<p>“a group of protesters say they were assaulted and had eggs hurled at them by bystanders”</p>
<p>In hundreds of stories around the country each day you will find sentences like those that are a victims account of an incident without the author seeking “proof” that it actually happened that way. </p>
<p>As an ex journalist I can promise you that it happens in print, on tv, on radio, and online…ALL THE TIME. </p>
<p>Every one of those examples is attributed. </p>
<p>I didn’t think RS had a duty to find the perpetrators on their own in order to interview them. I found that line of thinking odd, as well. However, I think the gravity and consequences of publishing a story like this without doing a significant amount of investigative reporting is extremely risky and somewhat irresponsible, (especially when, as TatinG points out, identities can be inferred) for all parties involved, and especially RS. It would be interesting to hear RS’s professional insurance carrier’s take on it all.</p>
<p>re: #562: I think that the boys “confessed” only knowing that they would not get expelled. I doubt they would have confessed if that was a possibility.</p>
<p>If a crime victim refuses to report or to testify and there is no other evidence, it is very hard to bring a case to trial, let alone convict. This is the case with any crime. In most cases, the prosecutor will not waster his or her time and resources on a case like that. In many cases, the woman does not get a medical examination and talks to the University days or even months later. If the University then reports the story to the police and the victim does not want to name names of attackers or witnesses, not much of an investigation is possible. And what is accomplished except that the woman is pushed to do something she is not ready to do. Either way, the woman is often victimized again, being fearful of retaliation and of not being believed. As many victims state, the first thing they want to do is get a shower to become clean, not go to the police. </p>
<p>Assuming Jackie told the Dean that something terrible happened at a frat on such and such a night, there could have been an investigation, even if she wouldn’t name the boys or the frat. </p>
<p>It really bothers me that these animals are sometimes referred to as ‘boys’.</p>
<p>The thing that really still worries me, and Shawbridge and JHS both addressed a bit, is whether rape culture contributes to rape on a college campus. If this serial rapist idea is true, then reporting will dramatically decrease college rape. When there is a gang rape, did all the serial rapists on campus somehow find each other to participate? My personal opinion is that the college culture is encouraging/teaching rape in some cases and that is the situation I believe urgently needs to be addressed. And it probably involves a huge cultural shift. I really liked JHS’s idea fraternities were almost uniquely positioned to lead the way - if they decided to make it their priority. But they have to commit to exemplary behavior instead of continually arguing they are “no worse than…”</p>
<p>adding: I don’t know what to call them. I don’t like to dignify them with the title of “men.” OTOH - I don’t want to excuse their behavior by signalling youthful immaturity. I stop and ponder every time.</p>
<p>If Jackie had gone to the hospital with cuts on her back from the glass and semen with the DNA of seven different men in her, she would have been believed. Evidence at the crime scene would have been found and these men would be in prison by now. What limits credibility is the waiting to report. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>My personal opinion is that OUR culture is encouraging/teaching rape, via music lyrics, pornography becoming acceptable entertainment, twerking, slut-pride, hook-up culture and the like. We have stooped to the lowest common denominator in aspiring to healthy male-female relationships. Don’t be judgey! blech </p>
<p>I do think fraternity men have the capacity to lead the way in this regard. They are supposed to be grooming “gentlemen” after all. Which I’m sure is an antediluvian concept, but is still a nice idea. </p>
<p>We live in a culture in which a president was accused of rape and sexual harassment and the women were called liars and trailer park trash. </p>
<p>I know I sometimes used boys and girls as at 18 to 20 they still don’t quite seem like men and women and got tired of writing young women. But they are certainly not little boys.</p>
<p>I have only seen the one study from Lisak that points to serial rapists as committing most of the sexual assaults so I am not convinced that it is an absolute truth. I certainly think there are serial rapists, but plenty of other assailants as well. </p>
<p>We also have women calling other women things like “rape fodder” for 30 years. That is really sad, and shows how some women contribute to the problem. If it is a correct characterization, then it should have been addressed, not repeated in derision for 30 years. If it is not, then it should be shut-up, because it cheapens the gravity of rape, and will only contribute to shaming those women from coming forward when it really happens to them.</p>
<p>“Can you explain how you would have handled the incident differently if you were Dean Eramo ? (not that we even know what she said)?”</p>
<p>Response
I am not targeting Dean Eramo, because I think that she is the person who is implementing the policy her superiors have established. However, while it is good that she is supportive, a person in her position should also make it clear that she and the University are encouraging her to report this and tell the truth. She should say that through the strength of women reporting and telling their stories honestly, they will help the University rid itself of this scourge. She should say that the University will not tolerate any student being hostile toward students for stepping forward in good faith, that it will use all the tools at its disposal to protect the victim from any retaliation, and make it clear that retaliation will not be tolerated, and that any retaliation be punished. </p>
<p>Furthermore, claiming that you did not know a lot of details should be viewed as a failure to obtain detailed information, and not as a defense by the administration. These individuals are professionals and need to know how to ask the right questions in the right way to get critical information. Avoiding important questions and then claiming that you did not know is no longer sufficient.</p>
<p>“these young men have been outed on various websites.”</p>
<p>Response
Really? I haven’t seen a single name (unless “Drew” counts). Where are the names?</p>
<p>“I think that the boys “confessed” only knowing that they would not get expelled. I doubt they would have confessed if that was a possibility.”</p>
<p>Response
This is probably true; however, there is value to this information. </p>
<ol>
<li><p>It makes it clear that the boys are often lying. Why have we not heard from anyone that this proves boys lie, therefore they are probably all lying? Why is that criticism seemingly only reserved for girls?</p></li>
<li><p>The fact that some of the boys have admitted to rape ends the discussion about whether this is happening at UVA. I do not believe that anyone admits to rape lightly. </p></li>
<li><p>It raises important questions about administrators who have not reported admitted felons to the police.</p></li>
<li><p>It raises important questions about public safety when administrators are allowing rapists to remain on campus and remain anonymous.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>“If Jackie had gone to the hospital with cuts on her back from the glass and semen with the DNA of seven different men in her, she would have been believed. Evidence at the crime scene would have been found and these men would be in prison by now. What limits credibility is the waiting to report.”</p>
<p>I think you are right that she would have been believed. However, the victim has just been traumatized, and has then been actively discouraged from reporting.</p>
<p>If Universities had medical staff and rape kits available on campus 24/7, and if the friends of victims told victims that the University wants and expects them to report it and that they will support her and not view her as trying to hurt the University, and her friends popularity, I might agree with you.</p>
<p>Since that is rarely the case, I do not see it that way at all.</p>