Am I an idiot for doing what I am about to do?

Applying to College
1

<p>During my freshman year and my sophomore year, I competed in Debate. And I am really good. I am just starting off school as a junior, and am ranked in the top 10% of the nation. I did really good in a bunch of national tournaments including Harvard Debate, Yale Debate, Princeton Debate, and Berkley Debate. </p>

<p>Here is the problem: I hate it. The only reason I did debate as a freshman was because we were told that we have to debate two sides of a political issue, what side you prefer is irrelevant. I think that's important because it gives you another perspective, it makes you less biased on certain topics. The thing is, debate in my experience in nothing like this! It's not about learning, its about WINNING. It's about wearing the most expensive suits, having sly tricks to trip your opponents, and being able to fool judge(s). When there is a serious political topic, the first thing we should do is learn about it and find legitimate arguments supporting it and not supporting it. But most debaters just ignore that and look for the most unique/tricky arguments so that way they can win a round. </p>

<p>Not to mention that I absolutely hate my debate team. I met incredibly inspiringly intelligent students across the nation, and that is something I will never forget. But my school's debate team is just a class of 40-50 pretentious students who wear colorful shorts and polos with sperrys. 99% of males wear this. I am the other 1%. Most importantly, these people HATE being wrong. You can never have a reasonable argument without them yelling out loud 'you're an idiot.' </p>

<p>Sorry for the rant. Anyways, I am good in competing because I conform to a style that I just realized I don't agree with. And I shouldn't agree with it because it is not a good style to have for our future. One must be open to new arguments and admit sometimes that there wrong, something debaters can't handle. </p>

<p>Anyways, I am a junior and I am still in Debate (been in it since I was a freshman). I'm seriously thinking about leaving and focusing on other really interesting classes like anthropology. I can't do other ECs that I like in addition to debate since I have to meet twice a week for useless meetings. Most of the very interesting clubs also meet during those two days, which is annoying. My teacher WILL fail me if I do not go to these meetings, I had to beg her last year just to bump my grade up from a B+ to a A because I didn't go to the family dinner. (Again, I would just be eating alone since I don't relate the whole team, plus the restaurant sucks). </p>

<p>I want to go to Brown University. I have the grades and the SAT range, but New College of Florida is also my top choice and pretty much a safety in regards to their application profile compared to mine. Anyways, should I drop the class?</p>

<p>tldr; I am really good in debate, but I am good for the wrong reasons and I hate competing in the event. The problem is that I am 2 years in and now I am still taking it as a junior, but I really don't want to pursue it for 2 more years (junior year just started). I think I am going to drop so I can go to clubs and classes that truly interest me, but I don't want to regret this decision for the rest of my life! And I also want to be a competitive applicant for Universities like Brown. </p>

2

<p>If you don’t like it, don’t do it.</p>

3

<p>If you leave debate, maybe write a college admissions essay about how people should think and debate issues, and what you learned about your debate team.</p>

4

<p>^I was thinking the same thing as I read the beginning…“Why I Hate Debate” Just remove the vitriol. :slight_smile: </p>

5

<p>Part of growing up is learning about who you are what what you care about. Agree that it’s fantastic essay material, but that’s irrelevant. </p>

<p>If you just be the person that you want to be and don’t do anything special for college applications, you will develop a fine character and the admissions process will sort itself out. If a college decision actually hinged on you sticking with something you hate, why would you want to attend that college? You would be admitted as a you that wasn’t really YOU. Trust your instincts and be genuine. </p>

6

<p>Good advice here. And you have two schools you would be happy attending–one of which you will almost certainly get into.</p>

7

<p>Wow…you have a lot of insight for such a young person. This is real life you are observing and reacting to. You have attained a high level of maturity and I encourage you to listen to your inner voice telling you to get out of Debate.</p>

<p>Be who you are NOW. You know what you will experience if you stay with Debate. It is safe, but miserable. And it is only a line item on a college admissions checklist, it may or may not have any bearing on admissions decisions. But what will you get to experience if you choose to be risky and try something new? That is the unknown, and that is what makes life more interesting.</p>

8

<p>I agree, if you hate it drop the class. And you can certainly write an essay about what you leaned (ex. how the people you work with matter, how being good at something isn’t the same as being passionate about something, not settling for the safe route but taking risks to find a true passion etc.). </p>

<p>I do have two suggestions. Since you seem to like the actual debating just not the school setting, you should also look for another avenue to continue debating that is outside of school (not a HS class but a club like Model UN, a group outside of school, or a class at a local college). And if you do drop debate completely, you should find another activity that you are passionate about and hopefully you can get some kind of leadership position in it to show that you are still an active member of the school (or community if you chose to do something outside of school). </p>

9

<p>Agree with everyone else. Don’t waste your youth forcing yourself to do something you hate! Go get involved with those other ECs that you actually find interesting. </p>

<p>Especially don’t stay in debate when you hate it solely in order to have a better chance at admission to Brown. What if you stayed in all 4 years and then Brown rejected you anyway? You’d be kicking yourself! </p>

10

<p>It will definitely hurt you for admissions especially as you already are 2 years and several accomplishments in.
But weigh whether this is worth it or not for you and decide. I personally stuck with Scioly for 4 years despite utterly hating it after freshman year and did okay. We’ll see whether it turned out to be worth it or not.
If you dislike it too much, quit.</p>

11

<p>I agree that you shouldn’t do something you hate. But I want to add some additional perspective here, particularly if you eventually choose to write an admission essay about why you quit debate. I have to admit that my initial reaction to your post was negative. The reason is because I know lots of kids who would give anything to have your resources and opportunities in debate. Specifically, my kid. Debate is my kid’s top EC. But she goes to a public high school where debate is a student-run after school club. There is a team “coach” who is a very nice teacher who is paid a very small stipend by the school district. She is a faculty sponsor who attends/chaperones/judges at the local tournaments and takes care of the administrative responsibilities of registering the team for tournaments and processing the payment of tournament fees. The kids are completely on their own to figure out how to debate and to mentor each other. There is no professional coaching staff, no class, no team dinners.</p>

<p>The team goes to one national tournament a year, and even then only about 10 kids can afford to make the trip. We don’t even have money to pay for the “coach” to go, so only parent chaperones go. Because our family can afford it, we have sent D to a few additional national tournaments, but she is completely on her own once there. There is no one to coach her on “unique/tricky” arguments to defeat the opposition. It’s also daunting to walk into your round and see that your opponent is from a nationally ranked team, flanked by his coaches, and the judge is a coach from another nationally ranked team and it’s obvious that they all are very chummy from all the time they’ve spent together on the national circuit.</p>

<p>We’re proud of how far D has come, and know there are tons of kids out there with far fewer resources than she has. But whatever you decide about quitting or continuing debate, be grateful for your opportunities and strive for some humility in your essays. Good luck!</p>

12

<p>I want to weigh-in with a quick opinion. </p>

<p>My reason for wanting to share my thoughts is simple- I’ve had an incredibly similar experience to you, but I think I’m a little further along the line- I’ll be submitting my college application in a month’s time. I too am good at debating and speaking (I won’t share my CV unless you want to hear) - but I’ve also had serious ideological clashes with the sport as a whole and the people associated with it.</p>

<p>To be frank, I cannot stand spending time with some of the people and I think that the justifications used currently for awarding debates are ridiculous. Sound familiar?</p>

<p>Three thoughts:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>If you’re proficient in debate then odds are you’re an astute critical thinker and a powerful public speaker. I’d also be willing to bet that you thoroughly enjoy the thinking and speaking components of debate, you just hate the people and the structure imposed on your thinking and speaking. Try to change the debaters around you. Use debating as a justification for reading further and expanding your thinking. For me, debating inspired a passion for philosophy and so I spent a year and a half studying it. I implemented the philosophy in debates and had a much better time- I won’t say that I won when using the philosophy, though :wink: . There’s a time and a place for being creative- just game the system when you’re at an important tournament- prioritize your own growth and maturation in practices.</p></li>
<li><p>Branch out. Debating lead me to competitive public speaking- something that I truly prefer. It’s a space to use ‘debating talents’ in a way that I deem fit. Try doing that- you may just surprise yourself.</p></li>
<li><p>Try to adjust the way you interact with and perceive the other debaters. I agree that some people can just be infuriating to spend time with, but, if you try, you may find that there is goodness and a redeeming element in most people. Before you walk out on the debaters, give them a second chance.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Obviously, if you truly hate debating, feel free to quit- but my personal feeling is that you should give it one last chance.</p>

<p>I too had moments when I was sure I was going to quit. I’m so glad that I never did. </p>

13

<p>Whatever you choose (to continue or drop it) - this is going to be a really fun essay topic (for once, something honest and not boring on a college admissions essay!)…</p>

<p>Wow … “Why I hate debate” might work based on what you have said so far.</p>

14

<p>Do you have any alternatives, like JSA (Junior States), Model UN, or Forensics available?</p>

15

<p>Have you been participating in other ECs? If Brown is an option you would like to keep open, I would make sure you had something to replace it with. Ideally something you’ve been doing for a year or two and can get more involved with, rather than something you are just starting your junior year.</p>

16

<p>If you were my kid, I’d definitely support you in dropping debate. Sounds as if you could better channel your energies. I don’t think you should necessary write an essay about it though unless the question prompt just happens to it quite well. Maybe the 'when were your beliefs challenged? But anyways, seems like too much if a negative topic to write about. I hope, instead, you go on to have experiences in the next year that provide essay material that highlights your good qualities.</p>

<p>To the poster who said they wish their child had the same opprtunities… I think your child has a great essay topic in describing how the students have run debate club.</p>

17

<p>Hey, </p>

<p>I do debate as well and I think you do PF, which I also do. I agree that debate is very demanding and that we all say it’s not worth it because of the work, but I think that in the end it is worth it because of the knowledge you gain and the friends you create at tournaments. Feel free to PM me, and maybe we can share some stuff in the future and become friends. I am going to Yale so maybe we could meet up or something. I also go to a pretty preppy school and I am not a kid who dresses preppy, and my school also has an emphasis on winning, so I think we are in similar situations. I think that you dislike debate more so because of your school rather than the actual activity. As PF’ers we have this thing of not talking to other schools too much when we get competitive, but all of the good debaters in the past such such as NFL winners and TOC winners collobarated with other people from other schools who were like minded people. So maybe stick to it and if you don’t like the nature of debate because you feel it is deceptive, then I would quit. But if you think that it is just the people in your school, I would focus less on them and more on the people at the tournaments with whom you share common interests and ideas.</p>

18

<p>Also,
How in the world did you go to Harvard and Berkeley? Aren’t they the same weekends? </p>

19

<p>I went to both tournaments in different years. I went to Harvard as a freshman, and Berkeley as a sophomore.</p>

<p>Oh, and thanks everyone for the commentary! I decided to give Debate another try this year, just because there are some bad people in my team it doesn’t mean I should quit the activity. I still love public speaking, and I don’t want to give that up. </p>

20

<p>@thenextcolbert‌ </p>

<p>Glad to hear! </p>