Am I on the right track for these schools?

Pre-Med & Medical School Pre-Med Topics
1

<p>Hi, I'm a graphic designer post-baccing as a premed and these are the schools I'm applying for next May.</p>

<p>Lyola
University of Illinois*
Northwestern
Michigan State University*
University of Michigan
Western Michigan University</p>

<p>I'm a Michigan Resident.</p>

<p>Here are my grades (overall undergrad GPA 3.37 not sure what my science GPA is because I did dual-enrolling in HS, I took some classes in my undergrad and I have my post bacc coursework so everything is kind of messed up).</p>

<p>College Alg: C (took in HS for college credit)
College Alg Calc Prep: B
Intro Biology: A
Anatomy: A
Anatomy & Physiology: A
General Chem I: A
General Chem II: (B+ or A- I'm hoping)</p>

<p>I volunteered 20 hours on floor, about 30 in the OR, I volunteered about 30 in Girl Scouts this summer and I will volunteer in the OR and shadow a physician this Fall. I also have a part time job working 18 hours a week (4 years now) and I am captain of our Club Volleyball team.</p>

<p>Do I have a good shot getting into the schools I'm looking at? Assuming I do well on the MCAT. I've looked at their pre-reqs and I can't seem to get a good feel for my chances. Not getting an A in my chem II class is really bumming me out but I feel that if I can pull a B+ I'll be okay. I have a feeling I'm going to like Organic Chemistry much better.</p>

<p>Any advice would be really helpful</p>

2

<p>U Mich --not likely. Your GPA is too low and the average accepted MCAT last year was 36. UMich doesn’t give much preference to in-staters either.</p>

<p>U Illinois has a moderately strong in-state preference (About 80-85% of each year’s incoming class are in-state for Illinois) so that will disadvantage you for admission.</p>

3

<p>My sGPA is too low or my undergrad? I can’t believe they would focus so much on my undergrad. I was in an art field that was completely subjective. Teachers really didn’t believe A’s in our department.</p>

4

<p>I had 3.84 Marketing minor too</p>

5

<p>Your undergrad, since we don’t know what your sGPA is for sure. It doesn’t matter what your major is, they don’t cut you any slack because you picked a harder/more subjective major. What else do you think they would evaluate you on, if not your GPA? </p>

<p>You also don’t have much for relevant volunteering/shadowing hours, compared to what others on here have recommended to be competitive. You’re not in a very good position for applying to MD schools, though you may have better luck with DO schools.</p>

6

<p>As an instate resident why wouldn’t you apply to all Michigan schools? I know WSU is as tough as Michigan but Oakland is now an option. Unless your sGPA is 3.7 or higher I would guess that both U-M and Northwestern would be a long shot. Here is a link to schools and the average MCAT and GPA.</p>

<p>[Medical</a> School Rankings by MCAT Scores - Medical Schools in USA](<a href=“http://www.medicalschoolsinusa.com/#map-usa]Medical”>http://www.medicalschoolsinusa.com/#map-usa)</p>

7

<p>without an mcat score and organic chem grades, not to mention physics and calc, a chances thread is way premature.</p>

<p>You’ll need to check with some/all med schools to make sure that Intro Bio, Anatomy and A&P will fulfill their Biology requirement. </p>

<p>But, fwiw, Northwestern is just as unlikely as Michigan.</p>

8

<p>Looks like my science right now (I’m assuming includes math) is a 3.58 with an upward trend. I still have 6 classes left before I apply so I could probably pull it up to a 3.7 by then. </p>

<p>I’m not saying schools don’t look at GPA, I’m saying I would hope they would see my area of strength lies in the sciences and not the arts when they look at that GPA. I know I don’t have much for the hours because I switched my senior year of college, again hoping they see that as well and that I am getting as many hours in as possible. I feel that I have a story to tell that include medically relevant experiences that will hopefully make up for that. </p>

<p>I’m applying to those schools as well, the ones I listed were my top preferences as they are well known medical schools and I was originally from IL which is why I want to go back.</p>

9

<p>Why not wait a year? Build up your experience in the field, and cultivate your reasons for pursuing that degree in the process. I don’t think they’ll really accept your excuse that you tried to squeeze it all into a year so that you could apply for that cycle, and that’s why you’re lacking in experience. They don’t want excuses, they want the experience. (I’m not sure what you mean by medically relevant experiences, so I can’t say if they’ll work much in your favor.)</p>

<p>I agree, it would be better if they assessed your potential primarily based on science grades, but then, science isn’t the only part of being a doctor. You could also look at it this way: given the choice, would you prefer an applicant who excelled in science, while doing only decently in their other courses, or someone who made a point of always excelling?</p>

10

<p>I was trying not to give my spiel but I guess there’s no getting around it lol.</p>

<p>Medical experiences meaning I’ve had botched surgeries and been the patient, I’ve watched family and friends go through months of cancer and have seen them die at an early age. My brother had lime disease, dad had heart problems, grandmother had hepatitis and my mom had pneumonia, pregnancy complications. I’ve been exposed to medicine all my life. No I wasn’t volunteering but essentially you are in a hospital interacting with patients. My moms mom, mom and sister were/are nurses and they’ve taught me a lot about medicine. The one thing my mom taught me about medicine though is with the knowledge you have to have heart to be a great doctor.</p>

<p>I have the gift of knowledge in science but I also have the heart. I feel that is it my calling to be a doctor. This isn’t about some 1st grader chasing a dream this is about me doing what I’m supposed to do, what I was born to do the rest of my life. I’ve seen and experienced the bad things that happen in life, illness is part of it but rather than staying angry or sad at what has happened, make a change. I feel that if you have the ability to make a difference in the world, than you also have the responsibility to make a difference. </p>

<p>Not having enough hours isn’t an excuse and I fully accept rejection if they are basing it solely on my hours but I really am trying to focus on what each of those experiences are trying to teach us as potential future doctors. They obviously want you to learn something from it otherwise why have us go through all that work? It’s the fact of life I didn’t find out until summer 11’ that I was supposed to be a doctor. Experiences led me astray thinking I would do other things in life but I have a gift. That doesn’t mean I will be a bad doctor and I feel I have the support to back it up. (Not trying to be defensive, I just get really passionate about this. There’s a pull in my heart that keeps telling me this is what I need to do in life and this is the time to go for it full throttle).</p>

<p>To answer your question I would want the doctor who always had their heart in what they were doing. Yes you have people that can excel in everything, but sometimes those people are so consumed with excelling that they miss the heart and passion that also needs to be in medicine. Those are the things that separates the good doctors from the great ones. I’m not saying this was the case for all my grades, I know history I just flat our struggled at but that doesn’t mean I won’t be a great doctor.</p>

<p>I’m grateful for all the feedback and I will definitely try to get some more volunteering experience under my belt and looking into those other Illinois schools. It sucks because I feel like with an interview and my story I would get in no problem, GPA and volunteering technicalities do not define what kind of doctor I will be and it just really bums me out that they are so heavily focused on.</p>

11

<p>I think that’s great that you have so much experience from a patient’s perspective – but that can be very different from a doctor’s perspective. I don’t say this to be difficult, but because it may also be how adcoms view your experiences. Could you include your discussions with your relatives who are nurses as shadowing experience? It’s not the same as shadowing a doctor, but it is relevant and documentable.</p>

<p>I know you believe that heart is the most important thing to becoming a doctor, and I agree, I don’t want the doctor who excels to the exclusion of everything else – that was a flawed example on my part, as I was referring only to courses, not outside activities and personal characteristics. But, excelling is necessary to get your foot in the door, after which time adcoms will consider your story and (possibly) interview you. Many people have had experiences as a patient, and feel they must help in some way, but adcoms need to have some sort of guidelines in place to determine who will succeed in med school and medical environments, and GPA, volunteer/shadowing experience, and MCATs are some of the things they have determined to be invaluable in making that sort of decision. Heart is important, but being able to handle stressful environments and keep calm, knowing what sorts of tasks and situations you may face as a doctor, and showing quantifiable commitment to the field are more important when trying to be admitted, all of which can be demonstrated through shadowing and volunteering.</p>

<p>I don’t think that scores and volunteering define who you will be as a doctor. I don’t think that not having them currently will make you a bad doctor. But adcoms have established guidelines for getting into medical schools, and I’m hoping to guide you towards following them as best you can, to save you money, time, and heartache by getting in on your first try, if at all possible. I apologize for the length, but I do hope you’ll succeed and achieve your goal; you just need to bend to the requirements of others sometimes in order to get there. :)</p>

12

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<p>I think this is well said. While my D1 has also had compelling personal medical experiences, she has always considered that part of her motivation for becoming a physician, and that she still needs to be mindful of all the other components assessed in med school admissions.</p>

13

<p>^^ Couldn’t agree more. </p>

<p>Both my children have dealt with compelling personal medical experiences, but neither count solely on those experiences for their reason why they want to be physicians nor for their understanding of what a physician’s job is like. Their experiences served more as springboard for inquiry and exploration than anything else.</p>

14

<p>Another thing that I think is helpful to realize is how statistically difficult it is to be accepted to medical school. I know when I see acceptance rates of 6%, 10%, maybe up to 25%, I tend to think “Well, yeah, but that’s for the other applicants. I have always been a hard worker, I have many great experiences, I am charismatic and interesting, I have the “stuff” to be accepted, so naturally, I will be among the minority accepted.” I think many students who were successful undergrads or postbaccs think this too, since it’s been the way things were for high school, undergrad, postbacc, etc.</p>

<p>But the thing that I think many fail to realize with med school admissions is that this time, the majority of applicants are very impressive and very competitive, so the likelihood that you will be the minority who is accepted goes way down. I know I didn’t realize how competitive the field was until I was actually at interviews, where the other students being interviewed were (in my opinion) considerably more experienced and more impressive than I thought I was. </p>

<p>Where am I going with this? If you are serious about getting into med school–and I don’t doubt that you are–you need to maximize the “good things” about your application and minimize (ideally to zero) the “strikes against” your application. While this feels like common sense, it’s much harder to do than you’d imagine. In my opinion, maximizing the “good things” means having a great GPA (>3.7), a high MCAT (>30), a variety of meaningful experiences (eg research, shadowing, volunteering, hobbies, leadership, AND employment), stellar recommendation letters, superb communication (written and verbal) skills, and a well thought out strategy (eg applying in June to a variety of schools that meet your GPA/MCAT stats). Minimizing the “strikes against,” then, would be minimizing poor experience/exposure to the aforementioned criteria. In my experience (personally and a large collection of friends), applicants can “get away with” a deficiency in precisely one of those criteria and still be accepted. </p>

<p>Circling back to what above posters have said, having had experiences as a patient and with family members in health care are fantastic reasons for considering a career as a physician–I can’t imagine anyone would deny you that. At the same time, it is unlikely they are sufficient for acceptance to medical school, because if you think about it, physicians are neither patients nor nurses. </p>

<p>You need to demonstrate, beyond any reasonable doubt, that you are driven and able to become a physician, and that a medical school should invest in your future above most of your peers’ future. That’s a tall order for anyone to accomplish! Sounds like you are on your way though, and I wish you luck as you continue!</p>

15

<p>^^^ times 10 what Kristen said.</p>

<p>I just finished a summer program at an Ivy medical school that is well regarded. I was in the mindset before that I am that amazing minority that will definitely get in. Although I am A year away from applying, let me say that the people I met are all amazing it’s insane. There were athletes, dancers, muscians, everyone had a leadership position or started a club, some with a plan to start up a nonprofit or business, gates millennium scholars, someone in the reserves, and much more. We took an Orgo class for preview and the class average on the first exam was in the high 80s.</p>

<p>What I am saying is, do your best and get that clinical exposure beyond your personal experiences as a patient. The competition is stiff but doing these ecs let you grow and give you the drive to excel and passion to be a doctor that will make you a competitive applicant.</p>

16

<p>You are in Mich., so your chances at Michigan schools are higher than others, (excluding California). My D. applied to U of M and NwU. We are aware that U of M does not favor kids from our state though. Well, U of M has completely ignored her application, there were no communication whatsoever from them, it was worse than rejection. However, she was accepted to NwU - Feinberg. I believe though that your situation is very different as you will have post-bacc degree and you are a Michigan resident. One comment, if you are applying to NwU, then why not to Case? Many times they accept the same students.<br>
I have no idea how UG GPA is counted in case of post-bacc degree. I imagine that MCAT score is still very important.</p>

17

<p>OP…BTW, I am completely on your side in regard to graphic design. My S. and his wife are both graphic designers. Boy, these people are spending 40 hrs/week in studio alone, well maybe not all the time, but most of the times. It is extremely time consuming as any art major. I even warn my pre-med D. not to take paper making class. She did anyway, she said at the end that it took a ton of her time. Warning to every pre-med, stay away from art classes, music is a better choice (if it is your call though).</p>

18

<p>Actually not all public Michigan med schools have a demonstrated in-state bias in admissions. UMich does not–more than half its incoming classes are from OOS. MI’s other med schools (Wayne, MSU, Western) do.</p>

<p>And the OP isn’t applying yet. She hasn’t completed most of her reqs, nor has she taken her MCAT. She won’t know if she’s ‘in the running’ for Northwestern until she does. </p>

<p>Once she has all her stats, then asking for suggestions of med schools to apply to is much more appropriate.</p>

19

<p>wowmom–that is simply not the case. UM has a strong bias for michigan residents, not only do they represent 50% of the incoming class (compared that to other top ten schools this is a very high IS percentage), in-state students have lower stats (MCAT/GPA) compared to their OOS classmates.</p>

<p>That being said, a 3.37 isn’t getting you in to Umich without a 40+ MCAT or some major hook because umich gets to cherry-pick from the best in-state applicants.</p>

<p>I would also like to remind all applicants who think that their stats don’t matter because they have a great heart and want it more: students with high stats probably have the same drive and heart for medicine that you do. At my medical school, we have an olympic gold medalist with a 40+ MCAT and 4.0 GPA who is going to become a great doctor because she has a “great heart” and passion for science. Sometimes I’m truly humbled by my classmates.</p>

20

<p>I have a D living in MI and working at UM SOM. She was told she would have some advantage when applying should her MCAT be in range for UM, but not so much that if she decided to maintain her state residency for her birth/high school/family home state that it would make a enormous difference to her application.</p>

<p>And depending on what rankings you’ve talking about–all the other Top 10 schools are private which do not demonstrate an in-state preference. Compared to most state med schools, 50% in-state enrollment is quite low.</p>