<p>For the record: Nebhe (New England) only discounts OOS costs if your major is not offered in your home state or you are within something like 60 miles of a target school in a neighboring state. Then it costs roughly midpoint between IS and OOS.</p>
<p>Southwest Airlines flies out of Columbus. Look at schools that are near where Southwest flies and often you can get very cheap fares, which is easier than a six-hour round-trip drive. I think I am remembering correctly that you are somewhere near Columbus.</p>
<p>OP is in MA. Think it means BOS, Providence or Manchester NH. Maybe Albany.</p>
<p>Oops, I have my threads confused. Sorry.</p>
<p>“For the very legitimate reason that we are probably 15 years older than other parents sending kids to college.”</p>
<p>TranquilMind - I’m a couple years older than you(checked your profile) and while it feels like I’m older than other parents sending kids to college , I really don’t think I am. That’s not to say There’s anything wrong with the way you are handling your kids college . Just that there are a bunch of us older folks out here.:)</p>
<p>OP- I think you sit your parents down for a friendly “rules of engagement” discussion about college. You have your agenda items- I’m sure they have theirs.</p>
<p>Early in the discussion, you show them the price of a wide range of schools in which you’re interested and where you think you can get in (including the usual reach/match/safety type schools.) You can point out that there are several trade-off’s involved in college selection- if you stay close to home, you might end up choosing between a college which you don’t think meets your academic needs (local, non flagship public college) but which is within your price range (and might be close enough to commute to from home) vs. a college which meets your needs (I think you mentioned Amherst) but which is not likely to offer enough aid to make it work within your budget without taking on huge loans, requiring them to co-sign, etc. Whereas if you look further afield, you may be able to find a college which meets your needs academically, and which might offer you enough merit aid to bring the total cost in under your budget.</p>
<p>And that what you are proposing to them is that for now, you don’t take anything off the table due to geography, as long as you have built the costs of travel into your estimates. You can reassess in April once the acceptances and aid offers are in- but for now, you’d like to keep as many viable academic options open for as long as you can, given the complexity of the finances with both custodial and non-custodial parents involved, a step sibling in college, etc.</p>
<p>Then listen to what they say. They many have never thought about you going far away simply because when you live in Massachusetts there are hundreds of colleges within a three hour drive. But actually looking on a spreadsheet and seeing Framingham State (no diss intended) vs. U Alabama or Pitt may help them understand your POV. They may be quite invested in you attending a big, well known university with lots of resources and a wide variety of majors and departments, national reputation, etc. You won’t know that until you show them your trade-offs.</p>
<p>double post, whoops.</p>
<p>*Now I am essentially stuck with my state school, which I find to be too party centric. I have visited several times but I haven’t been able to force myself to like it. I live in a state without acclaimed state schools, so there is very little academic rigor to the flagship campus as well. </p>
<p>*</p>
<p>what are your test scores (breakdown) and GPA?</p>
<p>what is your career goal/major?</p>
<p>It’s a very flippant and dismissive attitude to think that there aren’t a good number of academic-minded students with strong stats. If you choose a challenging major, then there will be plenty of strong students as classmates.</p>
<p>If you do have ivy-like stats, then you can get large merit from some schools that will be affordable. You’ll still be able to reach your career goals.</p>
<p>*</p>
<p>I feel bad that I am angry at my parents… but I am. They never saved and are making little attempt to be honest with me about what they can actually afford. I need something other than random numbers that mean very little. Do I have a right to be angry at them for all of this? *</p>
<p>One thing I’ve learned from coming from a large family is that adults can have a wide variety of spending habits and there’s often little that one spouse or another can do about another adult’s habits. Couples where both are budget-minded and thrifty can happily accumulate wealth and savings. Couples where one spouse likes luxury items, designer clothes, fancy trips, etc can mean “getting by” but little to no savings. Couples where both like to spend money can mean debt and other problems. The children from the 2nd or 3rd group may find that their parents can pay very little towards college, no matter how strong the student is.</p>
<p>BTW…it sounds like the mom and SD will be using dad’s child support payments to pay their share of the $10k. It’s doubtful that dad will contribute for college since he’ll likely think his child support is college money. So, both sets of parents are claiming that they’re contributing, but it’s the same $10k. </p>
<p>Does Mass require NCPs to pay support thru college years?</p>
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<p>Hmmm. I’d forgotten there was even a birthdate on the profile, as I’ve had this account for a long time, though I only recently posted. I was surprised. I do not recall giving a birthdate and I make it a policy never to give personal information online. I still may be older, let’s just say that. At any rate, yes, there are other old parents, I am sure. I just know that I’ve been at least a decade older than most of my kids’ friends all the way through. And I had older, Depression-era parents, which I’m sure colors my view of how independent one should be in making things happen. </p>
<p>That said, university costs are ridiculous today. Who would have ever thought we’d be looking at $60,000+ costs of universities!</p>
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<p>That’s funny. ;)</p>
<p>No geographical restrictions here. I guess I don’t understand why anyone would not want their kid to go to the best school for his major, regardless of location, assuming it was financially feasible.</p>
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<p>Mom2collegekids makes a very good point. What does the Custody and Child Support order say about College? That will determine what a parent must contribute. All else is voluntary.</p>
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<p>Geographic restrictions seem to be fairly common in postings here. These seem to be both student self-imposed and imposed by the student’s parents. Sometimes, the geographic restrictions shut out some of the most obvious choices from an academic and net price perspective, which can require the student to either go to a poor academic fit or take on too much student loan debt.</p>
<p>It is ok (though not ideal from the student’s point of view) if the parent cannot or will not pay the EFC and notifies the student before application season (it is not ok to wait until April, or overpromise and underdeliver). But if the parent imposes additional restrictions that can prevent the student from finding a good academic fit at an affordable net price (effectively forcing the student to either take excessive student loans, go to a poor academic fit, or not go to college at all), that is likely to be considered less desirable.</p>
<p>Of course, if the student self-imposes the restrictions, that is his/her own choice to shut himself/herself out of some otherwise viable options.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids, I don’t think the OP is totally off base in his/her assessment of UMASS. You have to understand that in New England, a pretty large portion of the very bright honors kids end up at elite private colleges. It’s just the culture around here. That’s why there are so many of them. As a result, the average student at UMASS was probably a 3.3 UW student in HS and may not have been in honors courses. The average Commonwealth College student (the honors program) was probably an A- student and took a lot of honors courses. For an Ivy level student, it leaves something to be desired. Furthermore, Commonwealth College doesn’t really offer that many courses and you end up with a lot of courses dominated by the type of students that you looked forward to moving on from in HS. It’s not bad, it’s just not the best that can be had. </p>
<p>For a hard major like engineering, you are right, the top students will be the only ones that can make it through the program anyway, but if your interest is in the humanities or social sciences, I think it could be quite limiting. </p>
<p>On the other hand, in other parts of the country and in Canada, most of the top students attend the flagships. The Honors programs at these schools often have the creme of the crop. A school like Alabama or Pittsburgh that offers honors programs with generous scholarships to raise the academic level of the school seem like great places for a more intellectual student on a budget to find like minded peers. Honors programs like Ohio State, Penn State, Wisconsin and Michigan seem like they are very rigorous and have many top students. I’m just not that familiar with the merit opportunities at Penn State, Wisconsin and Michigan. </p>
<p>Other interdisciplinary programs like Texas Plan II and one at University of Washington also seem geared toward the more intellectual student especially in the humanities and social sciences</p>
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<p>[University</a> of Massachusetts Amherst Admissions Information - CollegeData College Profile](<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=193]University”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=193) indicates that the average HS GPA of UMass - Amherst frosh is 3.66. Middle 50% ranges of standardized test scores are SAT-R-M 560-660, SAT-R-CR 530-630, ACT 24-28.</p>
<p>For comparison, [University</a> of Alabama Admissions Information - CollegeData College Profile](<a href=“http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=469]University”>http://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/college/college_pg02_tmpl.jhtml?schoolId=469) indicates that Alabama’s numbers are 3.54, 495-640, 500-620, 22-29 respectively, but it does not seem to prevent Alabama from being considered attractive enough for top students to take the scholarship money there (however, it is automatic for stats, unlike UMass - Amherst, where it is competitive).</p>
<p>Of course, if a student is so picky that s/he does not want to attend a state flagship with some students with lesser high school academic credentials, then that implies that s/he cannot have any safeties from an admission point of view (and the automatic for stats scholarship schools like Alabama would definitely be out). Perhaps living in a place with a relatively high density of elite private colleges can affect the student’s view of what a “desirable” college is.</p>
<p>Blossom’s approach mentioned a few posts back is excellent OP. Put together your spread sheet with travel expenses and liklihood of merit aid and ask them “not to take anything off the table” right now given their planned $10k EFC.</p>
<p>You should apply to competitive full-rides or full-tuitions. If you’re a stellar, Ivy-level student and write good essays, it’s worth a shot. There’s a thread out there - just google it.</p>
<p>You should also talk to your parents. I’m really sorry for your situation and totally understand why you’d be disappointed. It’s an unfortunate reality that we’re dependent on our parents for various reasons - social, economic until a relatively late age. It’s especially sad when there are significant values differences. I wish you all the best and hope you find success.</p>
<p>Edit: To convince them, plan ahead what you’re going to say and maybe make a spreadsheet showing Mass colleges vs full ride schools or plot them on a map (visuals are good) and hopefully they’ll get it.</p>
<p>MA law is that a court can order parents to pay. Obviously not a simple one-two.</p>
<p>Wonder if OP spoke with Dad yet.</p>
<p>I like(d) having my kids within 3 hours (their choice.) A very doable drive. Very uncomplicated. But if one had come to me and said, look, I could qualify for $XXX in merit, lower everyone’s costs and look how inexpensive Southwest tickets are- and all you have to do is get me to [closest airport, not even Logan,] sure I’d bite.</p>
<p>I know that UMASS uses weighted GPAs in their published stats. Unweighted GPAs are much lower. </p>
<p>The benefit of Alabama is the money. Other states flagships are have much more competitive admissions. </p>
<p>Pittsburgh CR 570-660, M 600-680, ACT 26-30
Ohio State: CR 540-650, M 610-710, ACT 26-30
SUNY Binghamton: CR 590-680, M 630-710, ACT 27-30
SUNY Geneseo: CR 580-690, M 600-700, ACT 27-29
McGill: CR 630-730, M 630-730, ACT 28-32
Wisconsin Madison: CR 530-650, M 630-750 ACT 26-30</p>
<p>Actually, University of Texas Dallas offers full rides and
CR 560-680, M 600-710, ACT 26-31.
[Academic</a> Excellence Scholarship - Office of Undergraduate Education - The University of Texas at Dallas](<a href=“http://oue.utdallas.edu/aes/]Academic”>http://oue.utdallas.edu/aes/)</p>
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Geographic restrictions only become a problem if the desired geographic location does not have a great availability of schools that could potentially fit the student. However, there may be a great number of schools to choose from within a small region.</p>
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<p>However, geographic restrictions that exclude the south do tend to eliminate most of the automatic-big-merit-scholarship safety candidate schools.</p>