<p>I once heard someone say, in real life, that he couldn’t believe his kid wasn’t accepted to (Ivy of choice) with perfect grades and very-near-perfect SAT scores, finishing his story with “What more could kid have done?” </p>
<p>Kid was not a legacy (not in one’s control), a gifted athlete (not in one’s control) or a gifted musician (again, not in one’s control). If you are the top gymnast or tennis player in the U.S., that’s a hook. If you win an international piano competition, that’s a hook, too. </p>
<p>I just wanted to say, though, that every year, I look at the kids who were state and national winners in the the Prudential Spirit of Community Awards and I’m always really impressed. Willingness to take on a project that helps others is in one’s control. Some of the “Spirit of Community” projects look like they required significant family resources to get started but over the years, I’ve read about many projects that look like a high school kid had a passion for a some area and did a wonderful service that helped many people over a number of years. I have a feeling that few of the kids got started with college admissions in mind but by the time they were applying for college (and awards) senior year, they had a hook.</p>
<p>I think if you know at the beginning of high school that there is an area you care about, you should try to pursue service in that area, devoting hours and taking on leadership. Kids can accomplish a lot in a couple of years, and your accomplishment can make the world a better place - and it can become a hook, if that is something you are looking for.</p>
<p>By the way, I agree with the poster who said that not everyone who gets into an Ivy League school has a hook. Some of the kids from our HS who are accepted to Ivies seem amazing in an interesting niche way (have a hook) and others seem like nice, very smart kids.</p>
<p>Bovertine, I never made any statement about that. My small non scientific sample was just to look at ALL hooked appplicants vs. non hooked. I’ll say it again that PG hit the nail on the head, it is simply the lack of seats for the fully qualified students such as limabeans son.</p>
<p>My very math/science oriented DS always took honors/AP English (got B’s) but had a hard time writing essays, esp in a short period of time (like SAT) or having to emote or wax poetic about himself/his experiences. Just. Could. Not. Do. It. Got near perfect score on the grammar portion of SAT writing section and a 6 on the essay.</p>
<p>Could easily have been one of those rejected by all the top schools despite excellent scores/grades.</p>
<p>It’s the same story every year. Yes, high-quality unhooked kids, lots of them, DO get accepted at elite colleges. Yes, at any particular college lots of them are NOT accepted. (At lots of high-quality kids with mild hooks are also not accepted, by the way.) There just aren’t enough slots.</p>
<p>The thing is, I have seen very few actual tragedies. The great kids who are turned down at one, or two, or three colleges are accepted at some other college that is equally as good, or nearly so. Some adopt a boom-or-bust strategy, applying only to a handful of super-selective colleges plus a safety, and some of those “bust.” But what that means is usually a high-quality public university honors program where they have every opportunity to shine. You can’t expect every great kid to be a shoo-in everywhere, but you can expect every great kid to get an opportunity for a great education absent really self-destructive strategies.</p>
<p>I’m not amazed. My own kid, who had a 35 ACT, 2310 SAT, corresponding GPA, recommendations like his grandparents wrote them, leadership positions, etc. was rejected at Yale and Brown. Brown especially was a tough one to accept because it seemed such a good fit. All along we had referred to Yale and Brown as his lottery ticket schools, because the odds are so long and that was a good approach to take. </p>
<p>However…having a realistic shot at the Ivy’s means that a student is in an enviable position to attend dozens, literally dozens, of excellent schools. My son currently attends Northeastern University on a full tuition scholarship, is in the honors college and loves it. Those rejection letters seem like they came a long, long time ago and are now just small blips in the rear-view mirror.</p>
<p>Most of the kids at the most selective schools are not hooked, if by hooked you mean legacy, URM, or recruited athlete. Certainly, kids with those hooks have an advantage, but there are plenty of unhooked kids. What there aren’t very many of, however, are kids with really good grades, really good (but not perfect) scores, and pretty good ECs in the local high school. There are just too many kids out there will really good grades, really good scores, and really impressive achievements outside the high school, like research, prizes, etc. This, I think, is the big change from thirty years ago when a lot of us went to college, and it’s hard to accept.</p>
<p>One hopes many of the great students denied an opportunity to attend an Ivy league school adopt the philosophy of pugmadkate and his or her exceptional son.</p>
<p>Same stats of very gifted son. Valedictorian of LI school, 4.0 UWGPA, 13 AP’s, blah, blah, blah. Well rounded, eadership. etc… No hooks. </p>
<p>Applied to some Ivys’s all the way down to some good state schools. Had a couple of privates that were financial safties- listed most merit scholarships online. Postcards with offerings to apply (no fee) and scholarship levels made it a great reason to apply.</p>
<p>As a few of the above posters, son was wailtlisted at Brown (became a first choice) at some point. Incredible alum interview also.) Will skip posting who in his class was accepted (similar stats, non-athlete).</p>
<p>As I have posted all over CC, I told my kids, there are no rejections. It only matters where you get in. Ivys and top U’s have many kids like son applying. You “should” get in, but that’s not going to happen. Also- You can go anywhere and be anything!!!</p>
<p>Son ended up deciding against one of his top choices (about $50K/yr) for full merit scholarship and tons of perks at safety. Ended up loving his school. He is in grad school now- will end his college career with no debt… Lucky him… especially the way the economy is right now.</p>
<p>Son2 was accepted to all the schools he applied to. Decided our state U was a great fit for him (and the price was great and the merit he got was a bonus!) and is excelling. No regrets on his part.</p>
<p>Not necessarily, especially considering my high school has a strong focus on math/science and had kids similar to your son. </p>
<p>They may not have been the next Hemingway, Milton, or Thoreau, but still managed to turn in credible essays which at least showed they made a good faith effort. </p>
<p>One also does not necessarily need to “emote” or “wax poetic”…in fact most successful classmates I knew who ended up at the HYPSMC type schools didn’t. That would have been a tall order considering many HS classmates tended to be heavily STEM-oriented, had some disdain for “emoting” or “waxing poetic”, and hated writing essays…even though they can put in a credible effort when called upon. </p>
<p>While I was an odd duck in being one of the few who actually loved writing essays, I would have been petrified if I was required to “emote” or “wax poetic”. </p>
<p>A reason why I preferred writing prose-oriented essays on subjects like history, poli-sci, technology, etc where one can maintain some pretense of logic and objectivity in one’s writing by minimizing his/her personal emotional involvement in the essay itself. It’s also a reason why I had to force myself to take an undergrad poetry/prose lit course as poetry with the emotional involvement of the writer and audience doesn’t come naturally to me.</p>
<p>I scanned the Penn 2016 ED thread and was struck by the fact that there were very few unhooked white males that were accepted to any of the programs. I spotted maybe two. Is that normal for elite college admissions? (DS is a white male who is curious about his chances)</p>
<p>My son is a sophomore (at his school they are called “middlers”) now and I still wrestle with whether or not to post his stats. But I was thankful to those who shared their stats before us so we were prepared and I hope to help someone else. It made a huge difference to go in with a current mindset, not the mindset of when I was applying to colleges as so much has changed.</p>
<p>We could have easily been one of those families who was caught completely off-guard thanks to “advice” that well-meaning friends and family who are alums of top schools gave my son. Instead, we were ready and it turned what could have been a negative experience into a really positive experience for our family and, most importantly, for our son.</p>
<p>I agree with what so many have already said – these high stat kids will get in to some great schools; they may not be ivies, but IMO, they’ll be comparable. Add my D to the list: 2250, 790/770 SAT II, 4.0 UW, 11 APs (10-fives, 1-four), 1 DC, leadership ECs out the ying yang, blah, blah. We told her the ivies were a crapshoot, but she could throw her hat into the ring if she really liked them. We emphasized fit over rank. She was full pay, and I disagree that it will always give you an edge. The endowments are so huge at some of these schools, particularly the ivies, and a diverse class seems to be the biggest priority. At any rate, she was rejected by 3 (HYS), waitlisted at 8, and accepted at 7. She had great choices among the 7 (Northwestern, UVA, UNC Honors, BC Honors, Pepperdine Deans Scholar, Wake Forest, and Trinity). It wasn’t as though she was left out in the cold with no options, and it’s been my observation that few of these kids are ever left without good choices; there are many schools that will avail students the opportunities of the ivies, and we reiterated this throughout the process. She did not choose the highest ranked college among her acceptances but rather the school she thought would be the best fit. Like pugmadkate’s son, she is thriving and is quite happy.</p>
<p>Remember that the admissions officers are building a balanced, diverse class each year. Not getting accepted doesn’t mean there was anything wrong with the applicant. No formula will guarantee acceptance in an Ivy League or top national school. My son applied to 14 and got into 10, most with some version of a full ride. He had perfect scores and GPA and probably could be considered to have multiple minor hooks. But, he was rejected to three of those schools and waitlisted for one. That’s my point. He was never guaranteed admission to any based on scores or hooks. That’s why he applied to so many. </p>
<p>The only advice I can give is to support your child pursuing his or her passions and not let them get spread too thin meeting school demands to be in group activities or activities that help. the school more than the child. Look at individual and nonschool activities because these shows personal initiative. My son tutored. college students in math throughout high school, helping pay our mortgage after I had an accident that took me. off work. That was far from his only hook, but I have to believe it helped. Its an example of something that is not expected, shows initiative, and demonstrates maturity. </p>
<p>I am assuming his acceptance by some schools and not others was related in part to the matter of fit for the school and building the class for that year. Im actually grateful for that because my son is extremely happy at his college.</p>
<p>In summary, never assume you’ll get admitted unless there is some written guarantee that you qualify for, such as a state law that admits students in the top 10% of their graduating classes.</p>
<p>Thanks to all the parents with kids in similar situations like my son. Glad to hear they are doing so well and are happy at their non-Ivy schools!! These kids will succeed no matter what they do and where they end up!</p>
<p>We are worried that checking the financial aid box will offset our D’s scores and grades. Maybe a student with the same stats but a wealthy family would likely be accepted instead of her. But, our state schools are great and I know she will thrive even if she doesn’t get in her first choice.</p>
<p>Its the world, not the test scores, that have changed.</p>
<p>Oh come on…yes the world has changes, but kids’ scores have as well.</p>
<p>In the old days, we took the test ONCE, didn’t study, dragged ourselves to the testing place the morning after a football game, and that was it. We were THRILLED to get a 1300 M+CR…it could get us in anywhere…including Harvard…now a 1300 M+CR is meh…move on.</p>
<p>Then, we progressed to taking the SAT a couple of times (but not too many times because we were told that Adcoms didn’t like that and/or would “average” the scores anyway.</p>
<p>Then, we began taking BOTH the SAT and ACT to see which would give us the better score.</p>
<p>Now, we have kids taking both tests multiple times and school’s superscoring which means more kids with 96th percentile scores from single sittings, now have 99 percentilie scores from super scores.</p>
<p>I have viewed Ivy admissions as a lottery for the brilliant for quite a while. No one can plan on admission unless they are extremely academically qualified and an athletic recruit who will contribute to the team, a nationally renowned scholar, or starred in Harry Potter, or perhaps all of the above. </p>
<p>However, the rising tide of brilliant applicants lifts all boats, and other schools are benefitting from the spill over of Ivy level applicants who don’t get in to the limited spaces. To mangle a metaphor, all that glitters is not Ivy. (All that adorns the wall of academia is not Ivy?)</p>
<p>At the risk of being unpopular, let me say that great grades and great test scores are merely a floor and do not get anyone admitted. I know this group knows that, but here’s another perspective. I am an alum interviewer for one of the coveted Ivies and let me say that over 10 years I’ve seen over 100 of these kids–they all look great on paper, but VERY FEW stand out beyond that. Sometimes they are not terribly articulate, sometimes they don’t know very much about the school they are applying to (really!!) and many times they are simply uninteresting–they talk about their school classes, interests, ECs like they are reading a resume or following 3x5 cards. As popoagie states, interviewers(and presumably AOs) want to see interest or passion in something. Frankly, when I see this such a kid STILL STANDS OUT out from the crowd. You’d think, by now, every kid would get it, but it is not the case. For me the admissions % is not so illogical, because I’d say less than 1 in 10 applicants I meet is a kid that shows excitement. Make sure your kids really want to apply to the schools they are applying to and have something interesting to say to that school!</p>
<p>I had one of each, and I am very very glad that so many colleges looked at my 2140 kid and realized that in many ways he’s got so much to offer. He is much more likely to make a real difference in this world than his older brother who had considerably better stats.</p>
<p>Back in the old days everyone at MY school took the SAT twice and my friend with the 1300 (legacy and who spoke French at home) didn’t get into Yale until August.</p>
<p>As for the oldest, he didn’t get into his top choice. But he went to a great school - tops in his field - and he’s now working at his dream job.</p>
<p>^ timeless, these things ebb and flow. One year, it’s all about global diversity, the next, it’s all about “talents”. Keep in mind, however, that you’re just looking at those who are self-reporting. It’s not the whole picture by any means.</p>
<p>crazed, actually my son was deferred too, and WL at Columbia.</p>