<p>
</p>
<p>Yep, and many have signed on to the Amethyst Initiative. I think many folks here would be surprised by some of those who have signed on. 136 college presidents last time I checked. </p>
<p><a href=“Amethyst Initiative » Signatories”>http://www.theamethystinitiative.org/signatories/</a></p>
<p><a href=“Amethyst Initiative - Wikipedia”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amethyst_Initiative</a></p>
<p>Another issue for Universities is that a failure to come down hard on this behavior could put them even more at risk in their Title IX investigations. So many Universities are already under Federal investigation under Title IX and trying to convince the DOJ that they are not allowing a misogynistic environment to persist on campus. Failure to put a stop to this type of fraternity behavior will definitely make that more difficult. </p>
<p>Public universities are going to bump up against free speech issues. </p>
<p>@Bay They have the right to free speech, but being a college fraternity is a privilege, not a right. It raises the issue of the ongoing all male fraternity. If all white is not acceptable, why is all male? Times are changing. Fraternities need to change with them, or their days may be numbered. </p>
<p>It’s the First Amendment, hello. Freedom of association. </p>
<p>Much2learn, if guys want to sing this out of the hearing of female students–or vice versa, if there are female equivalents–there is such a thing as free speech. Are you also going to expel all of the students who play music with violent, misogynistic lyrics? Expel everyone who owns a porn magazine or video? Or do you only reserve that treatment fro fraternity members?</p>
<p>BTW, if colleges expelled every underage kid who drank in their DORMS, they would be half empty, and 50% of the people laying all of the blame on fraternities would find their own kids among them.</p>
<p>@Consolation I am not saying that I would expel them for the lyrics.</p>
<p>However, I am saying that many of these fraternities operate from University-owned buildings on campus and are recognized by the school. I do not think that the University can allow a male-only fraternity to use an on-campus building and be recognized by the University and do the types of things that we are seeing in the news, while simultaneously arguing that they are compliant with Title IX. </p>
<p>@Bay, Free speech is not cost-free speech. Yes, student have the right to say it, but the University may impose a cost. Being an on-campus fraternity is a privilege and not a protected right.</p>
<p>It is the same situation as chewing out your boss at work. You can do it, but that doesn’t mean that she won’t fire you. </p>
<p>I don’t think anyone is saying that all these problems exist only in fraternities. But the frats do seem to provide an environment that is both conducive to these behaviors and is exerting very strong peer pressure to go along with it. As much as 18 year olds are adults, we also have to recognize that many of these 18 year olds are away from home and family for the first time, perhaps lonely and nervous about making friends, very much wanting to fit in and conform to social expectations in their new environment. They’re at a rather fragile stage of social development as they experience a lot more independence for the first time. Kids do not magically metamorphose when they turn 18, much as some of them might like to believe. And, not all of them are even 18 anyway. I was 17 when I went to college, and that’s not so unusual. No one is saying the institution should baby-sit these kids or monitor them 24/7, but at the same time, it’s clear that these particular organizations are putting many kids at risk before they’ve really had a chance to establish a life as an independent adult. Why is it being tolerated?</p>
<p>I think kids can associate freely without the adults who are supposed to be looking out for their well being (or why else do we have a small army of deans, counselors, etc, on campus?) providing support and tacit approval of organizations with a history of promoting harmful behaviors.</p>
<p><a href=“Clemson University Suspends Fraternities After Pledge Tucker Hipps Dies”>http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/clemson-university-suspends-fraternities-after-pledge-tucker-hipps-dies-n212036</a></p>
<p>Interesting update. Injuries were consistent with a fall of 20 to 23 feet. Then dumped in a lake.</p>
<p>@Much2learn could you quote the part about being dumped in the lake? I don’t know if the article has been updated or changed, but I’m not finding that info. Thanks. I wonder if they’ve yet determined the time of death.</p>
<p>@Maybe I am confused. The previous article said he was found in 4 feet of water in a lake. This one says he fell. Maybe he fell into the lake? Idk. </p>
<p>From the article:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>@bay Well, this is the standard approach to these incidents. No one knows anything. It is just odd that that happened. We don’t know how the ladies with the certain color x mark on their hands all got sick. We don’t know why the 18 year old girl at our party died. It is all a great mystery.</p>
<p>The facts are that, in aggregate, these incidents happen at too high of a rate to be explained. </p>
<p>@Much2learn they haven’t said that anything in the autopsy contradicts a fall from the bridge above. I thought the 911 caller’s choice of “we” and then corrected to “I” was strange. I also think it’s strange to interview so many of them and have them all come up with the same story. Even eyewitnesses usually have details in their accounts that don’t match other eyewitness accounts. </p>
<p>Much2learn, I am not a fan of fraternities, but how could it be okay to have all-female colleges and not okay to have all-male fraternities?</p>
<p>I am not saying that he didn’t fall. I am just saying that it occurred during a pledging activity. When events like this occur, it is difficult to tell what actually happened in individual cases. However, they occur too frequently to explain in aggregate. </p>
<p>What I question in this case is why a pledge was left alone by his fraternity brothers during a pledge activity, and then just randomly attempted to dive head first into shallow water from a bridge that is over 20 feet high. I don’t know what happened, but it seems odd to me. It also seems to me that the fraternity has to be responsible for the safety of pledges during pledge activities and should be held responsible, even if it actually was an accident. It still occurred during their activity. </p>
<p>@austinareaddad “how could it be okay to have all-female colleges and not okay to have all-male fraternities?”</p>
<p>My concern is the consistent drumbeat of bad behaviors, deaths, druggings, rapes, and misogyny that seem to occur for some unknown reason in relation to fraternities. I am unaware of these issues existing in relation to women’s colleges, but if they exist, I would oppose them too. In general, I am skeptical that the misogyny will change as long as the fraternities are all male. </p>
<p>As a society we seem to rightfully slam-down any form of racism against African-Americans, but too many of us still just wink when women are the victims. When the comments are directed at women many people just talk about the perpetrators rights. Those same people then argue that there is no sex discrimination in the workplace. Why is this issue not taken more seriously? We can’t continue to allow misogynistic behaviors in our society and argue that women are treated equally at the same time. </p>
<p>Do you think that is acceptable?</p>
<p>You sound a little out of touch with American culture, much2learn. Unless one is violating the law or a contract, he is free to be as mysogynistic as he wants. You don’t get to decide what is acceptable behavior for others, only the law can do that. </p>
<p>We know that some kids will misbehave when they think they can get away with it. When they grow up and go to college, is anything different? What’s needed is a zero tolerance policy. When there’s clear evidence of any of these serious issues, the frat is shut down, and there should be no possibility of being reinstated for years, until any conceivable institutional memory of the bad attitudes is gone. As long as they get a slap in the wrist, they will think it’s all a joke and continue to misbehave, just like when they were little kids. </p>
<p>Why not shut down the college if any of your “zero tolerance” behaviors occur there?</p>