<p>Okay, so perhaps this is east coast provincialism... until very recently, I was not familiar with the conservatory at Lawrence. Still not familiar but have had so much positive feedback on out-of-CC inquiries that I am curious. Most of the CC threads I've seen about Lawrence are a couple to a few years old. I have heard the conservatory described (again, off CC) as "top notch" -- really? Even as a provincial east coaster, I am wondering what that "really" means. Why do I not hear about their dual degree program in the same breath as, say, Oberlin or Peabody or any handful of others? Looking at their website and "on paper" stats, Lawrence looks pretty appealing. </p>
<p>So... It seems clear that they are supportive of dual degree pursuits... but what is the conservatory like from the stand point of classical music (in an older thread on CC, for example, someone stated "I know for a fact their orchestra is better than Yale's undergrad...").. .</p>
<p>Any thoughts or insight would be most welcomed.</p>
<p>listenmissy, My older son very seriously considered going to Lawrence. That kid is a cellist/composer It is a very interesting school and worth a close look. We are also from the east and had only heard a little about it until I saw it mentioned in that book Colleges That Change Lives but then we started meeting Lawrence grads.in our area who loved their college experience. There is a lot to like about the school and they give great merit. For us it was too far away and he ended up picking another school that was a better fit for him but he did really like the teacher there very much. I think it i worth a trip to look. It has a great vibe and reminded me of Oberlin. Music is important on the campus.</p>
<p>listenmissy, Have you also looked in Blair at Vanderbilt? We have a friend who recently graduated from Vandy for violin/science and really loved the experience. My violin son played in a masterclass for one of their teachers and thought she was great and also heard their resident string 4tet performed and was impressed. We also know a composer who is there and is also happy.</p>
<p>Hi listenmissy, My D just started as a freshman at Lawrence. She is not a music major but is an accomplished cellist and wanted to continue playing her cello in college. She auditioned and is playing in the Orchestra. She says her cello professor is amazing! We are going to Lawrence for parents weekend next week and will be attending their first
Orchestra concert of the season. I would be happy to report back with my impressions if that would be helpful to you.
Also, if you go to the Lawrence website they have an archived video library of past performances that might be helpful and they also have live webcasts of a lot of their performances. I would recommend looking at the Dean’s blog also, it gives a good feeling for what the overall philosophy of music is at Lawrence. I have been very impressed so far, they seem to put a lot of emphasis on musician health and injury prevention.</p>
<p>@cellocompmom, I think we will have to visit Lawrence and see what the fuss is about in person. And yes, Vandy/Blair are on our “to visit” list. As are most of the “usual suspects”… the dual degree issue is primary—DC is clear on that score (sorry for the bad pun)—although in some cases (e.g. CMU, Frost) would consider the double major, because of the quality of the programs. In all, there will be a baker’s dozen or so schools to look at, plus two that don’t offer BMs but have particularly strong undergrad classical music and academics, </p>
<p>@cellomom2 , thanks for the offer of a report back. I’ll take it! I have looked at the Dean’s blog. Very appealing.</p>
<p>On paper, Lawrence looks great. So why, as @glassharmonica noted, haven’t I heard about it (particularly the conservatory) except here? Is it simply the relative remoteness of the school? The fact that it’s all undergrad could potentially make for some great opportunities but leave it off the radar of those seeking graduate degrees or continuums, but Oberlin’s all undergrad and it’s on the map. </p>
<p>@glassharmonica , I don’t believe I mentioned my violinist’s gender. Listenmissy is purely my handle. I also have not mentioned career aspirations, just undergraduate goals.</p>
<p>But no matter, at this point, the aspiration is to pursue a career in music, in whatever form that takes. Other aspirations as well, not necessarily germane to these discussions ;). At this point, it’s as much about the journey as the destination. Suffice it to say that my DC is determined to pursue a dual degree and I am trying to help with some background research… there’s an awful lot to consider.</p>
<p>@listenmissy - I’m sure I’ve mentioned it before - but feel free to ask me about my son’s experience with a double degree (at Bard.) He’s continuing with academics now that he’s at Yale - just not for a second grad degree - for pleasure and his own well-being.</p>
<p>@listenmissy-It’s not prudent to look to “undergraduate goals” without looking ahead to “career aspirations”. Asking that question, as glassharmonica did, is routine and lets us help you. Some kids prefer chamber music to the thought of an orchestral chair, while others can see themselves going on for a DMA, and programs and teachers vary widely, so advice is not usually one size fits all.
Also, while not coming out and posting by actual name is wise, extreme stealth may distract from getting valuable information that you seek simply because all of that walking on eggshells is a deterrent. In many years here on CC, I’ve never heard of anyone who had a problem with speaking about their “son” or “daughter”. So many of us respond to quite a number of inquiries, and writing “your student” rather than “your S” or “your D” is annoying. Trust me, no one is going to take the time to put 2 and 2 together to come up with your kid’s name and location.
Conservatories do fall into “tiers”, and Lawrence is not considered one of the finest, but that’s not to say that it might not be a good fit for someone. You need to look at location, performance opps, teachers, programs as a whole, where their students are attending grad school, etc. </p>
<p>Anecdotally, we know a good (probably second tier) violinist and an excellent (top tier?) pianist who have both had good experiences at Lawrence. I believe both girls double majored/degreed. While D3 never really warmed up to it (she’d never heard of the school either, since we’re east coast types), once she heard her friends talking about it, she expressed regret that she hadn’t looked into it more closely. Good merit aid in both circumstances.</p>
<p>And welcome @listenmissy! I think you’ll find this a supportive and informative group. Although some members have met in real life, we are for the most part anonymous internet friends who have found a comfortable home here talking with other parents of young musicians. Some people share more details than others, and that’s ok. </p>
<p>Thank you @Mezzo’sMama for your thoughtful information, I see your point, and @glassharmonica’s. Having been through these forums in the past (prep school forum under a different name), I’ve found our pseudonymous identities aren’t as private as I’d like. It’s different when a kid’s already been admitted or through a program. That said, I’ll cave. </p>
<p>My DD violinist’s first love is chamber. She is not particularly interested in a solo career, and, as a subscriber to Strings magazine since she was 10, gets that she may be looking at an entrepreneurial career path as a musician. Assuming she continues along the path she has chosen, she will likely pursue a MM after a BM/BA (dual, not either or). As for a DMA? Possibly. I am not ready to project that far out. Anyway, the foregoing is the current plan; she has most of what she’ll need for audition repertoire in the pipeline. She recently read and sent me the violinist.com blog “A parent’s guide to Conservatory Auditions” (which I’d also read)-- i.e. she has a pretty good idea what she’s getting into on the audition end, and has the backing of her parents for the process.</p>
<p>The BA would be in a foreign language or another humanities pursuit (I add the latter because I understand it can be really hard to coordinate STEM degrees with a BM, though I gather plenty out there have done it). </p>
<p>Now, back to the original query about Lawrence. I get that their conservatory is not top tier. But there are some other schools out there with lesser-known conservatories or music schools that seem to graduate musicians that go onto bigger things. Because we have the added factor of finding a good fit for academics (dd is a scholar musician), we are starting “relatively” early (junior year) to gather as much info as possible; it’s hard to travel from where we are, and we anticipate a lot of time on the road in the coming year. </p>
<p>@stradmom, thank you for your kind welcome. I appreciate your sharing the anecdotal experiences. My head is spinning trying to keep all the schools straight. Originally, Northwestern was as far west (and north) as we were willing to consider, but, well… Lawrence is only three hours from Chicago. For now, it doesn’t top our list, but we are trying to cast a wide net of schools to consider, then visit and narrow down schools to apply to. </p>
<p>I think a lot of us start out with Oberlin, Bard and Lawrence in discussion of double degrees. Tufts and Harvard (Harvard’s is a BA/MM) are also mentioned a lot, from those of us in the Northeast. There are, of course, many other options, including Peabody/Johns Hopkins, Vanderbilt, Hartt, Ithaca, CIM, CCM, Indiana and so on. Manhattan is next to Barnard and across the street from Columbia. So many possibilities!</p>
<p>Since there is still plenty of time, it is always possible that your daughter will consider going to a college or university for humanities or language or STEM or whatever she decides before or during her time there, and then do music privately (lessons) and as an extracurricular, or outside of school. Colleges that Change Lives is certainly a great source for possible schools for that scenario (Vassar seems to get mentioned a lot on CC).</p>
<p>You probably know that Bard actually requires a double degree from all conservatory students. Your daughter may like that philosophy and would have a lot of company on her journey in two areas of study.</p>
<p>I have heard that Oberlin has a “low wall” between college and conservatory, meaning a student can move from one to the other. What I remember about Lawrence most of all was the music building on an island! </p>
<p>@compmom, thanks for these comments. Yes, my d has read the Peabody article (and declared herself the fellow who won’t give up either of his passions). We’ve had lengthy conversations. I don’t see music as a sideline, and she’s pretty clear that she’d really prefer a BM program and dual degree rather than double major, though she’d make an exception for certain schools where there is no path to a dual BA/BM degree. </p>
<p>She really likes the idea that Bard requires a dual degree, and traveling the road with fellow musicians. Lawrence seems to have a lot of con students who pursue 5 year dual degrees as well. I’m familiar with the other schools on your list… MSM/Barnard is a study situation but does not offer a dual degree, as far as I have been able to tell. I was drilling though the sites recently and seemed to recall seeing something to that effect. Of course, some schools that don’t appear on the face of it to have dual degree options actually do—but in those cases I’m guessing too few students take advantage of it to make a critical mass. </p>
<p>Oberlin’s “low wall” is appealing - and of course the lack of travel, à la Eastman/Rochester, Peabody/JHU, or, more extremely, NEC/Tufts or Harvard. Some of the other schools that have great music don’t necessarily have the academics she’s seeking. So our universe is fairly small, which is why, when I saw what Lawrence has to offer (at least “on paper”), I was intrigued.</p>
<p>Now I’m even more intrigued… tell me about the music building on an island!</p>
<p>I’m not sure what compmom means by the music bldg on an island. Maybe she is referring to the retreat that Lawrence owns, Bjorklunden, that is in Door county on a peninsula in Lake Michigan? Bjorklunden is located right on the Lake and is used as a retreat for weekend student seminars and various campus groups. The music building on campus is really cool, there is a newish center building that connects 2 older buildings. The walls are all windows, the ceiling maybe too? and it lets in lots of natural light. I was impressed with how well the buildings on the whole campus take advantage of windows and natural light.
Also, listenmissy, have you considered UMich? My son is a Sr. pursuing a dual degree in music performance and math at UM.
It is a big school but the music school is located on North campus and is like a smaller home for the music students. My S has enjoyed being a part of this small community and still being able to take advantage of the larger university and all that Ann Arbor has to offer. He is also passionate about chamber music and is finding lots of great opportunities to pursue that love at UM.</p>
<p>My daughter almost went to Lawrence. She fell in love with that school. It’s cold up there though. And the students up there seem really happy. They love it there. The faculty is very nice as well. It’s a place you have to visit. The town is small but not as small and isolated as Oberlin. Good luck!</p>
<p>Thanks, @cellomom2 – that helps. I wonder how all those windows do in the winter – UMich is absolutely on our “to visit list.” The reason for this thread on Lawrence was because I hadn’t heard of it until recently! Maybe I should start a separate thread with UMich and other larger school questions (like, how far is the North campus from where a humanities student would take the classes for their other degree)… in the meantime, I appreciate the input.</p>
– UMich is absolutely on our “to visit list.” The reason for this thread on Lawrence was because I hadn’t heard of it until recently! Maybe I should start a separate thread with UMich and other larger school questions (like, how far is the North campus from where a humanities student would take the classes for their other degree)… in the meantime, I appreciate the input.</p>